Alternate Alignment Monks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternate Alignment Monks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
hockeyman
04-14-05, 08:50 PM Ok I just recently got a copy of the unearthed arcana and I was just blowm away at the fact that they made alternate alignment Paladins and variant rangers. I am wanting to incorporate what I saw but with the Monk class. I was wondering how I would modify the monk to fit the alternate alignments. :confused:
Delfedd
04-14-05, 09:28 PM It'd be tricky. I personally wouldn't allow chaotic monks, but neutral ones would be cool
Xeviat-DM
04-14-05, 09:38 PM The monk is kind of tough to make alternate alignment monks. You may be better off making three types of monks, one for each lawful alignment. The path of the monk is a very ordered one, after all.

One idea could be to make different monks who must have some aspect of neutrality; you know, seeking the balance and all. But CN monks would be very very odd.
Salla
04-14-05, 09:54 PM I just removed the alignment restriction, the multiclassing restriction, replaced Ki Strike (lawful) with Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), and left it at that; nothing else really seemed necessary.

I'm not hung up on the name 'monk'; all it really means is 'someone who's good at fighting unarmed'. There needn't be anything spiritual about it (odds are the less spiritually inclined sorts mix it up with fighter or perhaps rogue) if that's not the player's vision.
Aurotuli
04-15-05, 10:05 PM It would be difficult, but I do not see it as impossible. I think you would have to adjust several - perhaps even many - of the specials gained by each variant monk. I'll admit, though, that the main two reasons I do not have a problem with alt AL monks is due to 1) Drunken Master PrC, and 2) anime (Ranma 1/2 in particular).

The first just does not seem lawful to me, and I cannot believe a monk that followed such a path could continue being lawful - in which case they techically would no longer be able to advance as a monk (although I note they can continue advancing in the PrC - a seeming contradiction). The second is just due to one time trying to stat several Ranma 1/2 characters and giving up. Most are too non-Lawful for monk, yet the monk's slow fall and higher jump ability (particularly in the 3.0 version) are necessary for the characters. Variant monks - or a non-alignment version of the monk - would be necessary to fit them. Of course, then the d20 variant of BESM came out, rendering the point moot. ^^

Hmm, what I would suggest would be a non-supernatural (or very little supernatural) martial artist combat class, with a PrC that grants many of the monk's supernatural abilities. Of course, if the supernatural abilities are removed then the monk would need other abilities to compensate.

Interesting idea. I'll work on it and see what I can come up with. I don't know if that would help you, however, as you want variant alignment monks.

Perhaps a CN monk that rages but loses most of the specials of the normal monk other than unarmed damage and slow fall? Perhaps a NG monk that can heal others as well as himself and has specials focusing more on subduing than slaying (grappling, save vs instant knockout, etc)? Perhaps a NE monk that can inflict wounds on others (think of strikes that cause extreme pain) and are better at damage / endurance than speed/etc?

Just some ideas to think on.
HailSpork
04-15-05, 11:13 PM I think the main problem is that the monk class stems from what I would assume to be the Shaolin monks; an arch-type known for order and meditation (I am no expert here; I could very well be wrong).

Anyway, an alternative I've been considering is a martial artist. Remove most of the monk abilities, reduce their will save down to low, up their BAB to full, and up hp to d10's. They still get unarmed strike, progression thereof. Not sure what else they'd get, but if they want slow fall, they take levels of acrobat (C.Adv.) or such.
They definately don't get SR, self-healing, poison immunity, dim-door, etc.
J Milburn
04-30-05, 09:03 AM Some of my group like the buddhism 'middle path' idea making them neutral. Also, a monk is very adaptable. there is also a ninja type monk, an assassin monk, and a monk is very close to a sumo wrestler!

I love the martial artist, have you played it out? is it balanced?
Eliza_Stormwhisper
04-30-05, 09:14 AM I personally don't have a problem with a chaotic monk.

In my games, I disallowed the monk class anyway... but now that I think about it, if I were to allow monks I'd probably just torch the alignment restriction.
Count Arioch the 28th
04-30-05, 01:00 PM Here's an idea I had last night that fits in with this theme.

Take a barbarian. Remove shield proficiency and martial weapons, add in unarmed strke as a monk.

Maybe take away trap sense and give him a similiar abilty to Ki strike. (Except obviously replacing lawful with chaotic.)

Got the idea from the character "Marv" in the movie Sin City.
HailSpork
04-30-05, 09:44 PM I love the martial artist, have you played it out? is it balanced?
No, I haven't tested it out yet.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hockeyman 04-14-05, 08:50 PM	Ok I just recently got a copy of the unearthed arcana and I was just blowm away at the fact that they made alternate alignment Paladins and variant rangers. I am wanting to incorporate what I saw but with the Monk class. I was wondering how I would modify the monk to fit the alternate alignments. :confused:
Delfedd 04-14-05, 09:28 PM	It'd be tricky. I personally wouldn't allow chaotic monks, but neutral ones would be cool
Xeviat-DM 04-14-05, 09:38 PM	The monk is kind of tough to make alternate alignment monks. You may be better off making three types of monks, one for each lawful alignment. The path of the monk is a very ordered one, after all. One idea could be to make different monks who must have some aspect of neutrality; you know, seeking the balance and all. But CN monks would be very very odd.
Salla 04-14-05, 09:54 PM	I just removed the alignment restriction, the multiclassing restriction, replaced Ki Strike (lawful) with Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), and left it at that; nothing else really seemed necessary. I'm not hung up on the name 'monk'; all it really means is 'someone who's good at fighting unarmed'. There needn't be anything spiritual about it (odds are the less spiritually inclined sorts mix it up with fighter or perhaps rogue) if that's not the player's vision.
Aurotuli 04-15-05, 10:05 PM	It would be difficult, but I do not see it as impossible. I think you would have to adjust several - perhaps even many - of the specials gained by each variant monk. I'll admit, though, that the main two reasons I do not have a problem with alt AL monks is due to 1) Drunken Master PrC, and 2) anime (Ranma 1/2 in particular). The first just does not seem lawful to me, and I cannot believe a monk that followed such a path could continue being lawful - in which case they techically would no longer be able to advance as a monk (although I note they can continue advancing in the PrC - a seeming contradiction). The second is just due to one time trying to stat several Ranma 1/2 characters and giving up. Most are too non-Lawful for monk, yet the monk's slow fall and higher jump ability (particularly in the 3.0 version) are necessary for the characters. Variant monks - or a non-alignment version of the monk - would be necessary to fit them. Of course, then the d20 variant of BESM came out, rendering the point moot. ^^ Hmm, what I would suggest would be a non-supernatural (or very little supernatural) martial artist combat class, with a PrC that grants many of the monk's supernatural abilities. Of course, if the supernatural abilities are removed then the monk would need other abilities to compensate. Interesting idea. I'll work on it and see what I can come up with. I don't know if that would help you, however, as you want variant alignment monks. Perhaps a CN monk that rages but loses most of the specials of the normal monk other than unarmed damage and slow fall? Perhaps a NG monk that can heal others as well as himself and has specials focusing more on subduing than slaying (grappling, save vs instant knockout, etc)? Perhaps a NE monk that can inflict wounds on others (think of strikes that cause extreme pain) and are better at damage / endurance than speed/etc? Just some ideas to think on.
HailSpork 04-15-05, 11:13 PM	I think the main problem is that the monk class stems from what I would assume to be the Shaolin monks; an arch-type known for order and meditation (I am no expert here; I could very well be wrong). Anyway, an alternative I've been considering is a martial artist. Remove most of the monk abilities, reduce their will save down to low, up their BAB to full, and up hp to d10's. They still get unarmed strike, progression thereof. Not sure what else they'd get, but if they want slow fall, they take levels of acrobat (C.Adv.) or such. They definately don't get SR, self-healing, poison immunity, dim-door, etc.
J Milburn 04-30-05, 09:03 AM	Some of my group like the buddhism 'middle path' idea making them neutral. Also, a monk is very adaptable. there is also a ninja type monk, an assassin monk, and a monk is very close to a sumo wrestler! I love the martial artist, have you played it out? is it balanced?
Eliza_Stormwhisper 04-30-05, 09:14 AM	I personally don't have a problem with a chaotic monk. In my games, I disallowed the monk class anyway... but now that I think about it, if I were to allow monks I'd probably just torch the alignment restriction.
Count Arioch the 28th 04-30-05, 01:00 PM	Here's an idea I had last night that fits in with this theme. Take a barbarian. Remove shield proficiency and martial weapons, add in unarmed strke as a monk. Maybe take away trap sense and give him a similiar abilty to Ki strike. (Except obviously replacing lawful with chaotic.) Got the idea from the character "Marv" in the movie Sin City.
HailSpork 04-30-05, 09:44 PM	I love the martial artist, have you played it out? is it balanced? No, I haven't tested it out yet.