Alternate Magic Systems [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternate Magic Systems [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dungeonrenter
02-07-07, 09:30 PM Ok, I love d&d but don't care for the magic system. I am currently playing with recharge magic. It works very very well. It changes the way the game plays because higher level spells get used less frequently per combat however, more magic is used overall.

I was wondering if anybody has found anything more even? Or another system that is:

as easy to use as d&d magic
allows you to use all printed spells (so basically it must retain the concept of spell levels)

Not fire and forget
Allows characters to cast any number of spells per day
Has appropriate drawbacks

I just was wondering if anybody else has worked out a spell system they like. If not I will go to work on it.
pukunui
02-07-07, 10:34 PM I'm currently working on converting all the spellcasters in my campaign to spontaneous casters because I dislike the whole "preparing spells in advance" thing. I find it time-consuming and obnoxious.

I've converted the cleric and druid to spontaneous casters using the "spontaneous divine caster" variant from Unearthed Arcana.

I'm just going to use the spell-less variants for the ranger and paladin from Complete Warrior.

The only one I'm stuck on at the moment is the wizard ... :P
ShinoAburame
02-07-07, 10:38 PM I like this one idea I had, it's sortof like the Star Wars d20 force system.

Casters must first expend HP, HP equal to the spell's level+1. (That way they can't abuse even zero level spells..)

Then they have to make a concentration check for the spell to succeed. The DC is 11+the spell's level. At later levels the concentration check will hardly be noticable, but then again that's to be expected. But there is always that chance of a critical fumble. Not to meation the fact you can't abuse the system cause a level 9 spell costs ten HP! A wizard with 10 con will have an average of 80hp at level twenty. Can they afford to turn the volume up to eleven?

As always, this system favors divine casters. So to counteract that, most spells should have a [Good] or [Evil] tag. If alingment is not your thing, just say [light] and [dark], the point is, clerics cannot cast spells opposed to thier respective field. An evil cleric, or more accurately, a cleric that rebukes undead, can't use [light] spells. (Seeing as they probably wouldn't heal anyway. But now it's not an option)

As for druids, that's a bit harder. But I'd say something like they get a penalty to success at casting spells outside thier favored terrain. (Sense they're nature based this makes sense) perhaps a penalty to concentration checks.
bartleby42
02-07-07, 11:11 PM Right now there aren't to many options other than "fire and forget" as you call it.

IIRC Monte Cooke's Aracana Evolved has a nice magic system that makes all casters a blend between sponatious and prepared casters, but the drawback with this is the fact that not only can you not use the preexisting spells but your stuck not being able to use the preexisting classes. Read up on it before you commit to this one, it runs at about $50.

In the srd (http://www.d20srd.org) there are rules for making casters spell point based, this makes them function a lot like psionics. If you prefer a hard copy (like me) the rules are in the highly useful even if open source Unearthed Arcana.

Other than that it is kind of a crap shoot. You might want to work on updating the channeler variant from the AD&D 2nd ed book, spells and magic. But that would be a lot of work.

Many other systems have unlimited castings, but it is hard to think of one that would translate easily into D&D. You might want to look at Shadowrun or Mage for more ideas. Good luck.
Xeviat-DM
02-08-07, 12:05 AM True20 has an interesting mechanic that might be possible to apply to D&D. Their spells are unlimited, but many of them have a FATIGUE discriptor. This discriptor means you have to make a Will save after casting such a spell, and you take a penalty for every Fatigue spell you've cast in the last hour. If you fail the save, you are fatigued; if you fail another, you're exhausted, and if you fail another, you're unconscious.

I'd also make Fatigue apply a -2 penalty to all stats, and exhaustion apply a -6 penalty to all stats and limit you to a single standard action. Then fatigue and exhaustion would suitably penalize all classes.
Melayl
02-08-07, 04:14 AM Here is a list (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=694465) of some alternatives (not all of them on the boards, but some).

You can check my sig for a mana based system (it's also in the above link).
Mufflon
02-08-07, 01:47 PM I like this one idea I had, it's sortof like the Star Wars d20 force system.

Casters must first expend HP, HP equal to the spell's level+1. (That way they can't abuse even zero level spells..)

Then they have to make a concentration check for the spell to succeed. The DC is 11+the spell's level. At later levels the concentration check will hardly be noticable, but then again that's to be expected. But there is always that chance of a critical fumble. Not to meation the fact you can't abuse the system cause a level 9 spell costs ten HP! A wizard with 10 con will have an average of 80hp at level twenty. Can they afford to turn the volume up to eleven?

This system seems a bit to harsh for low level characters. At first level a wizard with 14 con would have to expend one third of his HP to have a 50% chance of casting a 1st level spell.

Another thing is that any spell that boosts con or hit points is essentially free (since they provide more HP than they cost), once the caster can relaiably succed with the concentration check.
RogerBacon
02-10-07, 01:17 PM The BESM d20 product "Advanced d20 Magic" is just what you are looking for. It expands on their Dynamic caster from BESM d20 and converts every spell in the player's handbook. Conversion of spells is so simple that they could have dropped half of the book and saved space since they include the conversion notes but its still a good buy.
In short, the Dynamic Magician makes a fortitude save to cast a spell and then suffers drain as fatigue damage based on his roll. there are a couple of options to vary the power level if you want something stronger or weaker than default. The weaker setting is good for a horror or modern-day game and the stronger setting is good for some of hte more powerful DND settings. You could also pick up "Slayers D20", which uses the same system.

[edit]
Here's the link:
http://www.guardiansorder.com/bookinfo.php?id=02-608

Roger Bacon
Miss_Yersinia
02-11-07, 09:37 AM IIRC Monte Cooke's Aracana Evolved has a nice magic system that makes all casters a blend between sponatious and prepared casters, but the drawback with this is the fact that not only can you not use the preexisting spells but your stuck not being able to use the preexisting classes. Read up on it before you commit to this one, it runs at about $50.
Arcana Evolved is great, but if you just want to snag the magic system, and don't care for coloured illustration and 25-level classes, you may look for "Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed" (AE is the "Director's Cut" of it; but don't confuse it with "Unearthed Arcana" by WotC), since AE superseded it, I'm seeing it in the bargain bins quite a lot.
Greg K
02-11-07, 10:59 AM Alternate Magic Systems that I know of:

Spell Points from Unearthed Arcana (Wizards of the Coast)
Spontanteous Casting from Unearthed Arcana (Wizards of the Coast)
Elements of Magic:Revised (E.N. Publishing) reviews (http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=product&productid=119280)
Elements of Magic: Lycian Arcana (EN Publishing) reviews (http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=product&productid=119743)
Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth (E.N. Publishing) reviews (http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=product&productid=151405)
True20 Sorcery (Green Ronin)
Saros
02-12-07, 12:11 AM You can find the shaper magic variant under Elemental Shaper Mage in my sig. It isn't quite finished yet, but can basically be summed up as a more streamlined, point-based version of the epic "design your own spell" system.

~Saros

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dungeonrenter 02-07-07, 09:30 PM	Ok, I love d&d but don't care for the magic system. I am currently playing with recharge magic. It works very very well. It changes the way the game plays because higher level spells get used less frequently per combat however, more magic is used overall. I was wondering if anybody has found anything more even? Or another system that is: as easy to use as d&d magic allows you to use all printed spells (so basically it must retain the concept of spell levels) Not fire and forget Allows characters to cast any number of spells per day Has appropriate drawbacks I just was wondering if anybody else has worked out a spell system they like. If not I will go to work on it.
pukunui 02-07-07, 10:34 PM	I'm currently working on converting all the spellcasters in my campaign to spontaneous casters because I dislike the whole "preparing spells in advance" thing. I find it time-consuming and obnoxious. I've converted the cleric and druid to spontaneous casters using the "spontaneous divine caster" variant from Unearthed Arcana. I'm just going to use the spell-less variants for the ranger and paladin from Complete Warrior. The only one I'm stuck on at the moment is the wizard ... :P
ShinoAburame 02-07-07, 10:38 PM	I like this one idea I had, it's sortof like the Star Wars d20 force system. Casters must first expend HP, HP equal to the spell's level+1. (That way they can't abuse even zero level spells..) Then they have to make a concentration check for the spell to succeed. The DC is 11+the spell's level. At later levels the concentration check will hardly be noticable, but then again that's to be expected. But there is always that chance of a critical fumble. Not to meation the fact you can't abuse the system cause a level 9 spell costs ten HP! A wizard with 10 con will have an average of 80hp at level twenty. Can they afford to turn the volume up to eleven? As always, this system favors divine casters. So to counteract that, most spells should have a [Good] or [Evil] tag. If alingment is not your thing, just say [light] and [dark], the point is, clerics cannot cast spells opposed to thier respective field. An evil cleric, or more accurately, a cleric that rebukes undead, can't use [light] spells. (Seeing as they probably wouldn't heal anyway. But now it's not an option) As for druids, that's a bit harder. But I'd say something like they get a penalty to success at casting spells outside thier favored terrain. (Sense they're nature based this makes sense) perhaps a penalty to concentration checks.
bartleby42 02-07-07, 11:11 PM	Right now there aren't to many options other than "fire and forget" as you call it. IIRC Monte Cooke's Aracana Evolved has a nice magic system that makes all casters a blend between sponatious and prepared casters, but the drawback with this is the fact that not only can you not use the preexisting spells but your stuck not being able to use the preexisting classes. Read up on it before you commit to this one, it runs at about $50. In the srd (http://www.d20srd.org) there are rules for making casters spell point based, this makes them function a lot like psionics. If you prefer a hard copy (like me) the rules are in the highly useful even if open source Unearthed Arcana. Other than that it is kind of a crap shoot. You might want to work on updating the channeler variant from the AD&D 2nd ed book, spells and magic. But that would be a lot of work. Many other systems have unlimited castings, but it is hard to think of one that would translate easily into D&D. You might want to look at Shadowrun or Mage for more ideas. Good luck.
Xeviat-DM 02-08-07, 12:05 AM	True20 has an interesting mechanic that might be possible to apply to D&D. Their spells are unlimited, but many of them have a FATIGUE discriptor. This discriptor means you have to make a Will save after casting such a spell, and you take a penalty for every Fatigue spell you've cast in the last hour. If you fail the save, you are fatigued; if you fail another, you're exhausted, and if you fail another, you're unconscious. I'd also make Fatigue apply a -2 penalty to all stats, and exhaustion apply a -6 penalty to all stats and limit you to a single standard action. Then fatigue and exhaustion would suitably penalize all classes.
Melayl 02-08-07, 04:14 AM	Here is a list (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=694465) of some alternatives (not all of them on the boards, but some). You can check my sig for a mana based system (it's also in the above link).
Mufflon 02-08-07, 01:47 PM	I like this one idea I had, it's sortof like the Star Wars d20 force system. Casters must first expend HP, HP equal to the spell's level+1. (That way they can't abuse even zero level spells..) Then they have to make a concentration check for the spell to succeed. The DC is 11+the spell's level. At later levels the concentration check will hardly be noticable, but then again that's to be expected. But there is always that chance of a critical fumble. Not to meation the fact you can't abuse the system cause a level 9 spell costs ten HP! A wizard with 10 con will have an average of 80hp at level twenty. Can they afford to turn the volume up to eleven? This system seems a bit to harsh for low level characters. At first level a wizard with 14 con would have to expend one third of his HP to have a 50% chance of casting a 1st level spell. Another thing is that any spell that boosts con or hit points is essentially free (since they provide more HP than they cost), once the caster can relaiably succed with the concentration check.
RogerBacon 02-10-07, 01:17 PM	The BESM d20 product "Advanced d20 Magic" is just what you are looking for. It expands on their Dynamic caster from BESM d20 and converts every spell in the player's handbook. Conversion of spells is so simple that they could have dropped half of the book and saved space since they include the conversion notes but its still a good buy. In short, the Dynamic Magician makes a fortitude save to cast a spell and then suffers drain as fatigue damage based on his roll. there are a couple of options to vary the power level if you want something stronger or weaker than default. The weaker setting is good for a horror or modern-day game and the stronger setting is good for some of hte more powerful DND settings. You could also pick up "Slayers D20", which uses the same system. [edit] Here's the link: http://www.guardiansorder.com/bookinfo.php?id=02-608 Roger Bacon
Miss_Yersinia 02-11-07, 09:37 AM	IIRC Monte Cooke's Aracana Evolved has a nice magic system that makes all casters a blend between sponatious and prepared casters, but the drawback with this is the fact that not only can you not use the preexisting spells but your stuck not being able to use the preexisting classes. Read up on it before you commit to this one, it runs at about $50. Arcana Evolved is great, but if you just want to snag the magic system, and don't care for coloured illustration and 25-level classes, you may look for "Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed" (AE is the "Director's Cut" of it; but don't confuse it with "Unearthed Arcana" by WotC), since AE superseded it, I'm seeing it in the bargain bins quite a lot.
Greg K 02-11-07, 10:59 AM	Alternate Magic Systems that I know of: Spell Points from Unearthed Arcana (Wizards of the Coast) Spontanteous Casting from Unearthed Arcana (Wizards of the Coast) Elements of Magic:Revised (E.N. Publishing) reviews (http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=product&productid=119280) Elements of Magic: Lycian Arcana (EN Publishing) reviews (http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=product&productid=119743) Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth (E.N. Publishing) reviews (http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=product&productid=151405) True20 Sorcery (Green Ronin)
Saros 02-12-07, 12:11 AM	You can find the shaper magic variant under Elemental Shaper Mage in my sig. It isn't quite finished yet, but can basically be summed up as a more streamlined, point-based version of the epic "design your own spell" system. ~Saros