Alternative Death Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternative Death Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mark_Aged
09-01-07, 02:05 PM Okay, so, I never really liked the rule of what happens when you die, it make it so that the only way you can keep playing if your dead, is to be brought back to life. I thought, "what happens if you go to that plane, visit your friends soul, and teleport out of that plane with him?", and things like that. So, I present to you, my Alternative Death Rules! If you think there are thing about them that can be improved, please say so.

----------------------------

When a living creature dies, it's soul departs from it's body, leaves whatever plane it was on and immediately teleports to the Astral Plane, where it then travels to the plane where the creature’s deity resides. If the creature did not worship a deity, its soul departs to a plane corresponding to its alignment. Because there are many planes of the same alignment, and some times, layers, the creature may chose which one to go to. When they are there, they take on the Soul State template.

When you die, your soul is usually the only thing left. When only your soul is left, your true inner power rises. You may have taped in to the power your soul had when you had a physically body, but not it's full power. When you die, your soul's power can at last, be unlocked.

Soul State

The Soul State template can be added only when you die. When your dead, your moral perspective counts more then your ethical one. Your type and subtype will change reflecting this as needed. When you add the Soul State template, you may want to remember some stuff that you had before you added the template if you plan on not staying on that plane forever, for this is a template that can be removed. You also may not use any form of items, magical or otherwise, expect the ones you gain, of course, and natural weapons, you keep those.

Anything that dies, and it's soul is set free, must take this template.

Type: Change type to Outsider. Hit die type, attack bonus, saves, and skill points are unchanged. If the base creature's alignment was Good, change subtype to Good. If the base creature's alignment was Evil, change subtype to Evil. If the base creature's alignment was Chaotic Neutral, change subtype to Chaotic. If the base creature's alignment was Lawful Neutral, change subtype to Lawful. If the base creature's alignment was True Neutral, no change to subtype.

Hit Points: When the base creature hits -10 hit points, it's soul shatters, and the pieces return to the plane it was sent to when it first died. From there, it Soul Recovery still works. When it gets to back to 1 HP, the pieces of its soul reform. When you hit 0 hit points, you do not become disabled, and at -1 to -9 hit points, you are not dying. The base creature is not effected by Massive Damage.

Armor: The base creature can take one piece of armor, Hard Soul Armor or Loose Soul Armor. It may not don, use, hold or otherwise have any other sort of armor or shield.

Attack: The base creature can take one weapon. Soul Sword, Soul Dagger, or Soul Staff. If it worshiped a deity, it takes a Soul version of the deity preferred weapon. It may not don, use, hold or otherwise have any other sort of weapon or item.

Special Abilities: Soul Recovery, Eschew Materials and Still Spell or Improved Unarmed Strike and Power Attack.

Feats: The base creature choose to have ether the Eschew Materials and Still Spell Extraordinary Abilities or the Improved Unarmed Strike and Power Attack Extraordinary Abilities, as those they had the feats that go by the same name.

Environment: The plane it was sent to when it first died.

Alignment: Same as the plane's alignment it was sent to when it first died. Even if the charter acts out of this alignment, there alignment doesn't change. If in this case a paladin violates her code by doing something really evil, she will lose her paladin powers, but her alignment doesn't change.

Level Adjustment: No change

Eschew Materials (Ex): The base creature act as if they have the feat Eschew Materials, even if they don't.
Improved Unarmed Strike (Ex): The base creature act as if they have the feat Improved Unarmed Strike, even if they don't.
Power Attack (Ex): The base creature act as if they have the feat Power Attack, even if they don't.
Still Spell (Ex): The base creature act as if they have the feat Still Spell, even if they don't.
Soul Recovery (Ex): The base creature with this ability recovers 1 HP/day. It also recovers ability damage at the rate of 1 to all ability scores/week. The base creature is unable to be healed from any other sort of healing, including natural healing, and any other abilities it has that heal, such as Fast Healing, or casting spells that heal damage, such as Cure Moderate Wounds, or even powerful healing spells, such as Wish.

Soul Weapons

Soul weapons are only able to be used and obtained by creatures with the Soul State template when they first die. Soul Weapons are that same as other weapons, as follows:

Soul Sword = Greatsword
Soul Dagger = Punching Dagger
Soul Staff = Sickle

Soul Weapons have the same shape as there normal counterparts, but looks like your holding a fog. If your alignment is evil, it's a dark black fog. If good, it's white. If neutral, dark grey. A soul weapon is magic, and has an enhancement bonuses of +1 on attack and damage rolls. Other then that, you can't put enchantments on it, or make it more magic, or change it in any way at all. If the creatures worshiped a deity, it gets it's deity's preferred weapon, with Soul properties. Such as, if the creatures worshiped Bahgtru, it gets a Soul Spiked Gauntlet. If their deity preferred a weapon that uses ammo, they can summon one piece of ammo to their hand as a free action with no attacks of opportunity. Weapons with Soul properties can not be damaged, sundered, disarmed, or otherwise touched by anyone other then the owner. They weigh nothing, but that does not make it any easier to wield the weapon. If the owner ever drops, throws, or sets down the weapon, it disappears in 1d4 rounds. When the owner doesn't have their Soul weapon, they may summon it in to their hand or hands, as a free action, no attacks of opportunity. If anyone other then the owner tries to touch the weapon, their hand goes right through it. If it's used to attack, it is solid, and still does damage.Soul Armor

Soul armor is only able to be used and obtained by creatures with the Soul State template when they first die. You can't put enchantments on it, or make it more magic, or change it in any way at all.

Thick Soul Armor

This armor is wispy and flows like fire, but looks like a thick fog that follows you around. You have no way of getting rid of it. If your alignment is evil, it's a dark black. If good, it's white. If neutral, dark grey. Despite that your hand goes right though it, it offers some good defence when your attacked.

Light Armor

AC Bonus: +3
Max Dex Bonus: +6
Armor Check Penalty: 0
Spell Failure Chance: 50%
Weight: 0lb.
Loose Soul Armor

This armor flows around you. It's wispy like a fog, and you have no way of making it go away. It barley touches you. Despite the fact that you can see right though it, it helps defend you a bit. If your alignment is evil, it's grey. If good, it's a pure white. If neutral, light grey. Despite that your hand goes right though it, it offers some defence when your attacked.

Light Armor

AC Bonus: +1
Infinite Max Dex Bonus
Armor Check Penalty: 0
Spell Failure Chance: 0%
Weight: 0lb.
When a creature is dead, it can move around on it's plane, attacking, interacting, and talking to the planes other creatures. There for, if it can, a Soul can cast a teleporting spell, or use a portal to go to the Material Plane, with out having to use reviving spells. On the other hand, it still can't interact with items or anything of the sort. Also, there are rules of where a soul can go. If a Soul goes to a plane matching his alignment, no change to anything. If it goes to any other plane, it loses it's Soul Armor and Soul Weapon. It can't go to an opposing alignment plane. For example, a Chaotic Evil can go to any other Chaotic Evil plane with no change. If it goes to a Neutral Plane, it loses it's armor and weapon. It can't go to any Good alignment plane. A True Neutral Soul can go to any other Neutral plane with no change, but if it goes to any other plane, it loses it's armor and weapon. If the soul is attempted be be revived, it is still alerted. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis. A soul can be revived no matter what plane it's on, or even if it standing right next to the reviver. If a soul is revived, it disappears, and goes in inside it's body again. It loses it's Soul State template, and anything that it got with it, undergoes any changes the spell that brought it back to life says, and then it's alive again.

----------------------------

Well, what does everybody think?
Roog
09-03-07, 07:35 AM Okay, so, I never really liked the rule of what happens when you die, it make it so that the only way you can keep playing if your dead, is to be brought back to life.

I don't like that either - so I let my players choose to play a new PC when they get killed.

Seriously, your suggestion looks like it may make sense for some particular campaign setting you have devised (see the Ghostwalk Campaign Option for a comparison), but for a standard D&D game it feels like an arbitrary addition.

Mechanically, it has some balance issues, but those are not particularly important compared to the changes this makes to the campaign world, where (essentially) no one ever dies - they just move somewhere else.
Mark_Aged
09-03-07, 11:20 AM Believe me, I have tried the "roll up a new character", and as a player, experienced it. It's no fun to see your favourite character die, with nothing to do about it. That's why I made this, if you read the part at the start, for DMs who don't like to make players "roll up a new character".
ShadowF
09-03-07, 12:38 PM It's the price you pay for Adventuring. True 3.x has made it more easier to create throw away characters. True the other character can be on other plains, but what of the rest of the party, still on the material plane. Let the character die or have the option to have the character resurrected at the end of battle with a perminate 1 drain to Con (No wish can bring the CON Loss back).
Mark_Aged
09-03-07, 02:19 PM I am aware of the ways to revive players, I'm am providing an alternative to seeing your friend if you don't want to spend so much coin, or if you are unable to get founds together faster then a week, having to then pay 25,000 gp for a revive.
Roog
09-04-07, 01:06 AM Believe me, I have tried the "roll up a new character", and as a player, experienced it. It's no fun to see your favourite character die, with nothing to do about it. That's why I made this, if you read the part at the start, for DMs who don't like to make players "roll up a new character".

Well, in that case the easiest solution it a big helping of DM fiat. "Examining the battered body of your companion, you spot some faint signs of life."

Or have action points.

Or be more careful, and die less often.
Mark_Aged
09-04-07, 08:44 AM No action points, I hate action points. The first one lets the players know that no matter what they do, they'll never die, and they'll do really deadly stuff, the whole time knowing that they'll never die. And to the last one, come on, you can't just say, "I'm not going to die", then "be more careful".
Mark_Aged
09-06-07, 01:40 PM Bump.
Mark_Aged
09-10-07, 08:39 AM Bump.
Mark_Aged
09-12-07, 09:25 AM Bump.
wizardguy2003
09-12-07, 02:43 PM How about just adding the Ghost template to the character. Then they can be with the party and still interact in a new way with the option of always reviving them at some future point.
Mark_Aged
09-12-07, 08:10 PM I don't know why, but I never really liked it, so I made this, along with all my other reasons.
Mark_Aged
09-14-07, 11:22 AM Bump.
Mark_Aged
09-16-07, 08:28 AM Bump.
Mark_Aged
09-18-07, 01:37 PM Bump.
Mark_Aged
09-20-07, 09:34 AM Bump.
Mark_Aged
09-22-07, 11:13 AM Bump.
Igfig
09-22-07, 11:43 AM Why don't you take a look at the Ghostwalk campaign setting? It does the same thing you're looking at, and more elegantly.

Also, it's bad form to bump a thread more than twice in a row. If nobody else is posting, that probably means they aren't interested.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mark_Aged 09-01-07, 02:05 PM	Okay, so, I never really liked the rule of what happens when you die, it make it so that the only way you can keep playing if your dead, is to be brought back to life. I thought, "what happens if you go to that plane, visit your friends soul, and teleport out of that plane with him?", and things like that. So, I present to you, my Alternative Death Rules! If you think there are thing about them that can be improved, please say so. ---------------------------- When a living creature dies, it's soul departs from it's body, leaves whatever plane it was on and immediately teleports to the Astral Plane, where it then travels to the plane where the creature’s deity resides. If the creature did not worship a deity, its soul departs to a plane corresponding to its alignment. Because there are many planes of the same alignment, and some times, layers, the creature may chose which one to go to. When they are there, they take on the Soul State template. When you die, your soul is usually the only thing left. When only your soul is left, your true inner power rises. You may have taped in to the power your soul had when you had a physically body, but not it's full power. When you die, your soul's power can at last, be unlocked. Soul State The Soul State template can be added only when you die. When your dead, your moral perspective counts more then your ethical one. Your type and subtype will change reflecting this as needed. When you add the Soul State template, you may want to remember some stuff that you had before you added the template if you plan on not staying on that plane forever, for this is a template that can be removed. You also may not use any form of items, magical or otherwise, expect the ones you gain, of course, and natural weapons, you keep those. Anything that dies, and it's soul is set free, must take this template. Type: Change type to Outsider. Hit die type, attack bonus, saves, and skill points are unchanged. If the base creature's alignment was Good, change subtype to Good. If the base creature's alignment was Evil, change subtype to Evil. If the base creature's alignment was Chaotic Neutral, change subtype to Chaotic. If the base creature's alignment was Lawful Neutral, change subtype to Lawful. If the base creature's alignment was True Neutral, no change to subtype. Hit Points: When the base creature hits -10 hit points, it's soul shatters, and the pieces return to the plane it was sent to when it first died. From there, it Soul Recovery still works. When it gets to back to 1 HP, the pieces of its soul reform. When you hit 0 hit points, you do not become disabled, and at -1 to -9 hit points, you are not dying. The base creature is not effected by Massive Damage. Armor: The base creature can take one piece of armor, Hard Soul Armor or Loose Soul Armor. It may not don, use, hold or otherwise have any other sort of armor or shield. Attack: The base creature can take one weapon. Soul Sword, Soul Dagger, or Soul Staff. If it worshiped a deity, it takes a Soul version of the deity preferred weapon. It may not don, use, hold or otherwise have any other sort of weapon or item. Special Abilities: Soul Recovery, Eschew Materials and Still Spell or Improved Unarmed Strike and Power Attack. Feats: The base creature choose to have ether the Eschew Materials and Still Spell Extraordinary Abilities or the Improved Unarmed Strike and Power Attack Extraordinary Abilities, as those they had the feats that go by the same name. Environment: The plane it was sent to when it first died. Alignment: Same as the plane's alignment it was sent to when it first died. Even if the charter acts out of this alignment, there alignment doesn't change. If in this case a paladin violates her code by doing something really evil, she will lose her paladin powers, but her alignment doesn't change. Level Adjustment: No change Eschew Materials (Ex): The base creature act as if they have the feat Eschew Materials, even if they don't. Improved Unarmed Strike (Ex): The base creature act as if they have the feat Improved Unarmed Strike, even if they don't. Power Attack (Ex): The base creature act as if they have the feat Power Attack, even if they don't. Still Spell (Ex): The base creature act as if they have the feat Still Spell, even if they don't. Soul Recovery (Ex): The base creature with this ability recovers 1 HP/day. It also recovers ability damage at the rate of 1 to all ability scores/week. The base creature is unable to be healed from any other sort of healing, including natural healing, and any other abilities it has that heal, such as Fast Healing, or casting spells that heal damage, such as Cure Moderate Wounds, or even powerful healing spells, such as Wish. Soul Weapons Soul weapons are only able to be used and obtained by creatures with the Soul State template when they first die. Soul Weapons are that same as other weapons, as follows: Soul Sword = Greatsword Soul Dagger = Punching Dagger Soul Staff = Sickle Soul Weapons have the same shape as there normal counterparts, but looks like your holding a fog. If your alignment is evil, it's a dark black fog. If good, it's white. If neutral, dark grey. A soul weapon is magic, and has an enhancement bonuses of +1 on attack and damage rolls. Other then that, you can't put enchantments on it, or make it more magic, or change it in any way at all. If the creatures worshiped a deity, it gets it's deity's preferred weapon, with Soul properties. Such as, if the creatures worshiped Bahgtru, it gets a Soul Spiked Gauntlet. If their deity preferred a weapon that uses ammo, they can summon one piece of ammo to their hand as a free action with no attacks of opportunity. Weapons with Soul properties can not be damaged, sundered, disarmed, or otherwise touched by anyone other then the owner. They weigh nothing, but that does not make it any easier to wield the weapon. If the owner ever drops, throws, or sets down the weapon, it disappears in 1d4 rounds. When the owner doesn't have their Soul weapon, they may summon it in to their hand or hands, as a free action, no attacks of opportunity. If anyone other then the owner tries to touch the weapon, their hand goes right through it. If it's used to attack, it is solid, and still does damage.Soul Armor Soul armor is only able to be used and obtained by creatures with the Soul State template when they first die. You can't put enchantments on it, or make it more magic, or change it in any way at all. Thick Soul Armor This armor is wispy and flows like fire, but looks like a thick fog that follows you around. You have no way of getting rid of it. If your alignment is evil, it's a dark black. If good, it's white. If neutral, dark grey. Despite that your hand goes right though it, it offers some good defence when your attacked. Light Armor AC Bonus: +3 Max Dex Bonus: +6 Armor Check Penalty: 0 Spell Failure Chance: 50% Weight: 0lb. Loose Soul Armor This armor flows around you. It's wispy like a fog, and you have no way of making it go away. It barley touches you. Despite the fact that you can see right though it, it helps defend you a bit. If your alignment is evil, it's grey. If good, it's a pure white. If neutral, light grey. Despite that your hand goes right though it, it offers some defence when your attacked. Light Armor AC Bonus: +1 Infinite Max Dex Bonus Armor Check Penalty: 0 Spell Failure Chance: 0% Weight: 0lb. When a creature is dead, it can move around on it's plane, attacking, interacting, and talking to the planes other creatures. There for, if it can, a Soul can cast a teleporting spell, or use a portal to go to the Material Plane, with out having to use reviving spells. On the other hand, it still can't interact with items or anything of the sort. Also, there are rules of where a soul can go. If a Soul goes to a plane matching his alignment, no change to anything. If it goes to any other plane, it loses it's Soul Armor and Soul Weapon. It can't go to an opposing alignment plane. For example, a Chaotic Evil can go to any other Chaotic Evil plane with no change. If it goes to a Neutral Plane, it loses it's armor and weapon. It can't go to any Good alignment plane. A True Neutral Soul can go to any other Neutral plane with no change, but if it goes to any other plane, it loses it's armor and weapon. If the soul is attempted be be revived, it is still alerted. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis. A soul can be revived no matter what plane it's on, or even if it standing right next to the reviver. If a soul is revived, it disappears, and goes in inside it's body again. It loses it's Soul State template, and anything that it got with it, undergoes any changes the spell that brought it back to life says, and then it's alive again. ---------------------------- Well, what does everybody think?
Roog 09-03-07, 07:35 AM	Okay, so, I never really liked the rule of what happens when you die, it make it so that the only way you can keep playing if your dead, is to be brought back to life. I don't like that either - so I let my players choose to play a new PC when they get killed. Seriously, your suggestion looks like it may make sense for some particular campaign setting you have devised (see the Ghostwalk Campaign Option for a comparison), but for a standard D&D game it feels like an arbitrary addition. Mechanically, it has some balance issues, but those are not particularly important compared to the changes this makes to the campaign world, where (essentially) no one ever dies - they just move somewhere else.
Mark_Aged 09-03-07, 11:20 AM	Believe me, I have tried the "roll up a new character", and as a player, experienced it. It's no fun to see your favourite character die, with nothing to do about it. That's why I made this, if you read the part at the start, for DMs who don't like to make players "roll up a new character".
ShadowF 09-03-07, 12:38 PM	It's the price you pay for Adventuring. True 3.x has made it more easier to create throw away characters. True the other character can be on other plains, but what of the rest of the party, still on the material plane. Let the character die or have the option to have the character resurrected at the end of battle with a perminate 1 drain to Con (No wish can bring the CON Loss back).
Mark_Aged 09-03-07, 02:19 PM	I am aware of the ways to revive players, I'm am providing an alternative to seeing your friend if you don't want to spend so much coin, or if you are unable to get founds together faster then a week, having to then pay 25,000 gp for a revive.
Roog 09-04-07, 01:06 AM	Believe me, I have tried the "roll up a new character", and as a player, experienced it. It's no fun to see your favourite character die, with nothing to do about it. That's why I made this, if you read the part at the start, for DMs who don't like to make players "roll up a new character". Well, in that case the easiest solution it a big helping of DM fiat. "Examining the battered body of your companion, you spot some faint signs of life." Or have action points. Or be more careful, and die less often.
Mark_Aged 09-04-07, 08:44 AM	No action points, I hate action points. The first one lets the players know that no matter what they do, they'll never die, and they'll do really deadly stuff, the whole time knowing that they'll never die. And to the last one, come on, you can't just say, "I'm not going to die", then "be more careful".
Mark_Aged 09-06-07, 01:40 PM	Bump.
Mark_Aged 09-10-07, 08:39 AM	Bump.
Mark_Aged 09-12-07, 09:25 AM	Bump.
wizardguy2003 09-12-07, 02:43 PM	How about just adding the Ghost template to the character. Then they can be with the party and still interact in a new way with the option of always reviving them at some future point.
Mark_Aged 09-12-07, 08:10 PM	I don't know why, but I never really liked it, so I made this, along with all my other reasons.
Mark_Aged 09-14-07, 11:22 AM	Bump.
Mark_Aged 09-16-07, 08:28 AM	Bump.
Mark_Aged 09-18-07, 01:37 PM	Bump.
Mark_Aged 09-20-07, 09:34 AM	Bump.
Mark_Aged 09-22-07, 11:13 AM	Bump.
Igfig 09-22-07, 11:43 AM	Why don't you take a look at the Ghostwalk campaign setting? It does the same thing you're looking at, and more elegantly. Also, it's bad form to bump a thread more than twice in a row. If nobody else is posting, that probably means they aren't interested.