An intriguing idea: combining generic classes with d20 modern class concepts [Archive] - Wizards Community

An intriguing idea: combining generic classes with d20 modern class concepts [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aurotuli
06-29-04, 09:40 PM This is an idea I recently conceived and am thinking of one day implementing:

Players start as one of the following: Expert, Magician, or Warrior (need better names, I know). These classes are halfway between the NPC and generic UA equivalents in terms of power. (I don't expect any PC or NPC to have more than 5 levels in any of them - ever. They are 5 Lv classes for all intents and purposes.) After at least 3 levels the N/PCs can take levels in advanced 10 Lv classes such as Wizard, Priest, Soldier, Thief, Bandit, Bard, etc.

The idea is that this will better explain their background while also showing their gradual increase in power. It will also allow them access to some skills/etc they might not normally have (for example, a Soldier who has a level of expert from his early warrior days). Also, there will be no NPC classes other than Serf (former known as Commoner). Many NPCs, therefore, will have levels in classes equivalent to those of lower level PCs - which I feel is a little more realistic. Not surprisingly, I also intend to remove the XP penalty for multiclassing as it will be more or less a requirement to advance at all.

Some advanced classes might require multiclassing at a lower level. Bard, for instance, would likely require levels in both Expert and Mage.

PrCs will continue to exist, but they will be uncommon and difficult to gain (both the requirements and a test will be used). I intend to create any PrCs used IMCs, although if a player wishes I'll be willing to consider (perhaps with modifications) any PrCs they are interested in playing.

Thoughts? Questions?

The idea is relatively new to me, so I expect there are problems I have yet to realize and facets I have yet to discover.
Lina_Inverse
06-30-04, 07:46 AM CRs,you cant reduce the power of pc classes without friggen those up.

anyways why not just use the normal generic classes?beyond the fact expert is strictly worse than rogue of course xP.
Steelgryphon
06-30-04, 11:43 AM Ever since i got Unearthed Arcan ive been tossing arond the idea of FORCEING players to start playing as there paragon (anyone who dosent know what im talking about by now should buy the book) and then that way they are treated more like normal ppl at lower lvls then an uber god adventurer

thats my rant
Aurotuli
06-30-04, 02:58 PM An example then:

Dwellon was born to a family of warrors. His father was a War 3 / Sld 1 / Grd 2, and his mother a Xpt 4 / War 1. What little combat training she had came mostly from a short adventure she had had years before with his father when her town fell to invaders and they had to depend on each other to survive. Now his father is a member of the town guard - a leutinant of the captain of the guard and well trusted and known in the town. His mother is an artisan who still has a few mementos from her more combative days and still occationally practices the techniques that once saved her life. Growing up in this setting, Dwellon becomes a Warrior (War 1).

In the same sense that d20 modern has Strong heros, Fast heros, etc this system uses Experts, Mages, and Warriors. I will borrow ideas from the generic classes to create equivalent starting / basic classes. (I might even consider using the generic classes almost in whole from the UA, although likely with some modification.)

Dwellon eventually decides to go out on his own for a time. He gets hired to help guard a caravan from which his mother often buys her raw materials. After almost a year he returns as a War 2 / Xpt 1 (focusing on survival and detection skills). This, however, has only whetted his appetite for adventure. He starts out on his own, but soon enough he comes upon hard times. In an unfamiliar and often hostile land, he decides to follow a less lawful path than his father. He begins attacking others to take their wealth. Within a few months his skills have grown and he is a War 2 / Xpt 2* / Bandit 1. *(Focusing more on stealth skills this time.)

Now, Dwellon could have taken a different path. He could have remained in town and joined the guard. He could even have joined the army to participate in a battle occurring on the opposite side of the kingdom. In the latter case he would have gained levels in the advanced class Soldier. In the former case he would have gained levels in the advanced class Guard. Or perhaps he could have started out as a soldier, learned some skills (taken another level in Expert) and then taken a more roguish path. Or perhaps he could have abandoned the army (becoming a deserter) and taken the path of the Bandit anyway.

In any case, I am basically using d20 modern style classes without the Str / Dex / Con / Int / Wis / Cha classes. Instead, I would use generic classes. Yes, it is possible to emulate the ideas above with other classes, but it does not portray the gradual advancement in power as well as the d20 modern style classes. Yes, the classes will all be somewhat decreased in power, but then I plan to run a lower magic world than is typical.

Also, if you consider the d20 modern style class system, you realize that you start with general classes and work towards more specific classes. A strong hero can advance and eventually take levels in soldier. An intelligent hero can advance and eventually take levels in field scientist. The advanced classes are open to any that meet the requirements (which are typically low, esp if you have specialized at all towards the area best covered by the advanced class).

That is what I am considering / trying to implement. If any are interested I will list the advanced classes I am considering creating.
keyunp
06-30-04, 05:34 PM SteelGryphon> I'm actually doing that. But not in the same way. My 3 players are all playing Elves, so I'm giving them 5 Paragon levels as what they learned growing up. (I refuse to accept that an elf spends 100 years and does not know any more then a 15 year old human)

In total I'm using:
A version of Defense Bonus
A version of Injury System
A version of Spell Strain (Injury style for spells)
A version of Armor as Damage Conversion
A version of Taint (instead of alignments)
A version of Weapon Groups

The main reason that I've had to make at least some changes is because we're using a classless system. Everything reduced to feats and/or skills.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aurotuli 06-29-04, 09:40 PM	This is an idea I recently conceived and am thinking of one day implementing: Players start as one of the following: Expert, Magician, or Warrior (need better names, I know). These classes are halfway between the NPC and generic UA equivalents in terms of power. (I don't expect any PC or NPC to have more than 5 levels in any of them - ever. They are 5 Lv classes for all intents and purposes.) After at least 3 levels the N/PCs can take levels in advanced 10 Lv classes such as Wizard, Priest, Soldier, Thief, Bandit, Bard, etc. The idea is that this will better explain their background while also showing their gradual increase in power. It will also allow them access to some skills/etc they might not normally have (for example, a Soldier who has a level of expert from his early warrior days). Also, there will be no NPC classes other than Serf (former known as Commoner). Many NPCs, therefore, will have levels in classes equivalent to those of lower level PCs - which I feel is a little more realistic. Not surprisingly, I also intend to remove the XP penalty for multiclassing as it will be more or less a requirement to advance at all. Some advanced classes might require multiclassing at a lower level. Bard, for instance, would likely require levels in both Expert and Mage. PrCs will continue to exist, but they will be uncommon and difficult to gain (both the requirements and a test will be used). I intend to create any PrCs used IMCs, although if a player wishes I'll be willing to consider (perhaps with modifications) any PrCs they are interested in playing. Thoughts? Questions? The idea is relatively new to me, so I expect there are problems I have yet to realize and facets I have yet to discover.
Lina_Inverse 06-30-04, 07:46 AM	CRs,you cant reduce the power of pc classes without friggen those up. anyways why not just use the normal generic classes?beyond the fact expert is strictly worse than rogue of course xP.
Steelgryphon 06-30-04, 11:43 AM	Ever since i got Unearthed Arcan ive been tossing arond the idea of FORCEING players to start playing as there paragon (anyone who dosent know what im talking about by now should buy the book) and then that way they are treated more like normal ppl at lower lvls then an uber god adventurer thats my rant
Aurotuli 06-30-04, 02:58 PM	An example then: Dwellon was born to a family of warrors. His father was a War 3 / Sld 1 / Grd 2, and his mother a Xpt 4 / War 1. What little combat training she had came mostly from a short adventure she had had years before with his father when her town fell to invaders and they had to depend on each other to survive. Now his father is a member of the town guard - a leutinant of the captain of the guard and well trusted and known in the town. His mother is an artisan who still has a few mementos from her more combative days and still occationally practices the techniques that once saved her life. Growing up in this setting, Dwellon becomes a Warrior (War 1). In the same sense that d20 modern has Strong heros, Fast heros, etc this system uses Experts, Mages, and Warriors. I will borrow ideas from the generic classes to create equivalent starting / basic classes. (I might even consider using the generic classes almost in whole from the UA, although likely with some modification.) Dwellon eventually decides to go out on his own for a time. He gets hired to help guard a caravan from which his mother often buys her raw materials. After almost a year he returns as a War 2 / Xpt 1 (focusing on survival and detection skills). This, however, has only whetted his appetite for adventure. He starts out on his own, but soon enough he comes upon hard times. In an unfamiliar and often hostile land, he decides to follow a less lawful path than his father. He begins attacking others to take their wealth. Within a few months his skills have grown and he is a War 2 / Xpt 2* / Bandit 1. *(Focusing more on stealth skills this time.) Now, Dwellon could have taken a different path. He could have remained in town and joined the guard. He could even have joined the army to participate in a battle occurring on the opposite side of the kingdom. In the latter case he would have gained levels in the advanced class Soldier. In the former case he would have gained levels in the advanced class Guard. Or perhaps he could have started out as a soldier, learned some skills (taken another level in Expert) and then taken a more roguish path. Or perhaps he could have abandoned the army (becoming a deserter) and taken the path of the Bandit anyway. In any case, I am basically using d20 modern style classes without the Str / Dex / Con / Int / Wis / Cha classes. Instead, I would use generic classes. Yes, it is possible to emulate the ideas above with other classes, but it does not portray the gradual advancement in power as well as the d20 modern style classes. Yes, the classes will all be somewhat decreased in power, but then I plan to run a lower magic world than is typical. Also, if you consider the d20 modern style class system, you realize that you start with general classes and work towards more specific classes. A strong hero can advance and eventually take levels in soldier. An intelligent hero can advance and eventually take levels in field scientist. The advanced classes are open to any that meet the requirements (which are typically low, esp if you have specialized at all towards the area best covered by the advanced class). That is what I am considering / trying to implement. If any are interested I will list the advanced classes I am considering creating.
keyunp 06-30-04, 05:34 PM	SteelGryphon> I'm actually doing that. But not in the same way. My 3 players are all playing Elves, so I'm giving them 5 Paragon levels as what they learned growing up. (I refuse to accept that an elf spends 100 years and does not know any more then a 15 year old human) In total I'm using: A version of Defense Bonus A version of Injury System A version of Spell Strain (Injury style for spells) A version of Armor as Damage Conversion A version of Taint (instead of alignments) A version of Weapon Groups The main reason that I've had to make at least some changes is because we're using a classless system. Everything reduced to feats and/or skills.