"Exploding" critcal hits [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Exploding" critcal hits [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
StormKnight
03-25-05, 11:36 AM I'm considering trying something where critical hits can "explode" (basically, keep adding on as long as the rolls are good).

If a critical hit is scored, and the natural roll for the confirmation is within the critical hit range (and a hit), the damage multiplier for the critical hit increases by 1 and the character may roll again - if the next roll is again within the critical range, the damage multiplier increases by another x1. There is no limit to how many times the multiplier may increase, as long as the character keeps rolling criticals.

Abilities that boost critical range do not apply to confirmation rolls unless the character has multiple abilities that improve the critical chance (which normally do not stack) in which case the best improvement applies to the attack roll, the next best improvement applies to the first confirmation roll, and so on, with one bonus applying to each roll.

Examples:
A fighter is attacking with a weapon with a critical range of 19-20 and a damage multiplier of x2.

She rolls a 19 to hit. She rolls to confirm the critical and scores a 20. She is now inflicting a critical for x3 damage instead of just x2. She rolls again rolls a 19. She's now up to x4 damage. Her next roll is only a 15, so she stops rolling and inflicts damage at x4.

She rolls a 19 to hit. She rolls to confirm and gets a roll of 18 plus bonuses. That confirms, but wasn't in the crit range so she just does x2.

She picks up a Keen weapon, so it now has a threat range of 17-20. She rolls a 20 to hit. Her confirmation roll is an 18. While this is within the keen critical range, the bonus only applies on this first roll, so this is NOT another critical and the attack just hits for x2 damage.

She now learns Improved Critical and has her Keen weapon (in the normal rules, this is a useless combination). She hits with an 18, so this is a possible critical. Her confirmation roll is a 17. Because each improved crit range can be applied to a different roll, she received one improved range on the first roll and one on this roll, so her crit range is still 17-20. This damage multiplier is increased to x3. Her next roll is a 19, another critical increasing to x4. Her next roll is an 18. Since the critical boosts only applied to the first 2 rolls, this is NOT a critical and she ends with x4 damage.

Since there is no upper cap on criticals, an incredibly lucky hit could in theory kill anything - though the odds are quite low.
Gemstone
03-25-05, 01:38 PM Sounds interesting, but I believe that i can become a bit unbalanced with certain weapons. there's a reason why weapons with 19-20 crit range are only x2
Ilium
03-25-05, 02:29 PM I like it, but as Gemstone points out it'll take playtesting. What about this situation:

The fighter has a keen longsword (threat range 17-20) and a total attack bonus of +10. Her target has AC 28.

First roll is a 20. A threat. The roll to confirm is a 19. Confirmed. Damage is now x2 and she rolls again. The third roll is a 17. This is in the threat range, allowing an "exploding" roll, but it isn't actually good enough to hit. Does she do x3 damage? Does she get to roll again?
HailSpork
03-25-05, 03:19 PM I've playtested this for a while.

On the upside, it is fun for a player to roll two 20's in a row; the downside is it means that dangerous monsters have the potential to kill a player in one hit.
StormKnight
03-25-05, 04:06 PM First roll is a 20. A threat. The roll to confirm is a 19. Confirmed. Damage is now x2 and she rolls again. The third roll is a 17. This is in the threat range, allowing an "exploding" roll, but it isn't actually good enough to hit. Does she do x3 damage? Does she get to roll again?

<Wonders if I missed that in my original post...ahh, no there is it...>

and the natural roll for the confirmation is within the critical hit range (and a hit),

I had in mind that you do actually need the confirm roll to hit to get the extra critical damage.

My original thought was that you would have to roll to confirm the increased damage. IE: (Needing a 17 to hit and a 19-20 to crit)
Roll of 19 = potential critical, roll again to confirm.
Confirmation roll of 20 = confirmed critical, potential +1 damage modifier, roll again to confirm.
Now if the next roll was:
18 = good enough to hit target, so critical is confirmed at x3, but not a critical so exploding critical ends there.
12 = not confirmed, so just inflicts a base x2 critical
19 = confirmed for x3, and roll again for a possible x4.

But that seemed like a lot of rolling.

Another option would be to always have the critical chance after the initial attack roll be a 20 regardless of the weapon type. This puts all the weapons on the same footing. A Keen weapon wielded by someone with Improved Critical would still double the first critical confirm chance to 19-20.
Ilium
03-25-05, 04:25 PM But unless I'm missing something your example still doesn't include the case where one of the follow-up rolls is in the threat range, but not actually a hit. In such a case do you:

1) Stop. All done.
2) Roll again, but not add 1 to the multiplier
3) Add 1 and roll again.

I'm assuming it's either option 1 or option 2.
rbingham2000
03-26-05, 02:47 AM My basic opinion is that exploding criticals should explode on a natural 20 on the confirmation roll. If you keep getting 20s on the confirmation roll, you keep adding to the multiplier.

That said, the upside is that your PCs have the potential to dish out some truly heinous damage against monsters. But the downside is that the monsters have the potential to do the exact same thing to your PCs. There's a reason why some people don't like the "instant kill" variant rule for crits in the DMG.
StormKnight
03-28-05, 01:02 PM But unless I'm missing something your example still doesn't include the case where one of the follow-up rolls is in the threat range, but not actually a hit. In such a case do you:

1) Stop. All done.
2) Roll again, but not add 1 to the multiplier
3) Add 1 and roll again.

I'm assuming it's either option 1 or option 2.

Option 1 - Stop, all done. A missed confirmation roll would not increase the critical multiplier, or confirm the critical hit, even if it were in the threat range, just as a regular attack that rolls a crit but doesn't hit (except for a natural 20) would not be a hit.

That said, the upside is that your PCs have the potential to dish out some truly heinous damage against monsters. But the downside is that the monsters have the potential to do the exact same thing to your PCs. There's a reason why some people don't like the "instant kill" variant rule for crits in the DMG.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the "instant kill" rule, though it obviosly inspired this - a 1/400 chance of outright death seems to bad, but a 1/400 chance of taking slightly more extra damage doesn't seem too bad.
Shaudes29
04-01-05, 06:00 PM greatsword+raging barbarian+ 8, 20's in row. Yes it really happend=
(2d6+9)*9 or 18d6+81 avg.=144 damadge and 1 fort save.

"he's dead jim" O I forgot it's a vorpal sword to.. :D
trapspringer
04-02-05, 08:31 PM I would say let all their feats and magic apply to all rolls, but say the crit range decreases by 1 every roll.
Souza
04-03-05, 09:39 PM I always ruled critical works that way. Thats how we played in 2ED here. In my last campaing, everyone was lvl 7 when a MM standart orc (there to be a fodder, the only survivor of the wizard area spell) charged the wizard, rolled a 20 (x3). followed by two 20's (x5) and then confirmed.. 1d12+3 x5 = auto kill for that poor guy.
kjamma4
04-06-05, 05:19 PM Well, not really an exploding crit, but our house rule is if you roll a 20 to hit and a 20 to confirm, you don't roll damage - you do maximum damage (i.e. as if you rolled the highest possible on your damage die/dice.)

However, we do not allow this if a natural twenty plus your total bonuses is less than the opponent's AC.

[edit:meaning that if you could mathematically hit by rolling a 20, we allow it but if the only way you could hit is by relying on the "20 is always a hit" rule, we don't allow it.]

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StormKnight 03-25-05, 11:36 AM	I'm considering trying something where critical hits can "explode" (basically, keep adding on as long as the rolls are good). If a critical hit is scored, and the natural roll for the confirmation is within the critical hit range (and a hit), the damage multiplier for the critical hit increases by 1 and the character may roll again - if the next roll is again within the critical range, the damage multiplier increases by another x1. There is no limit to how many times the multiplier may increase, as long as the character keeps rolling criticals. Abilities that boost critical range do not apply to confirmation rolls unless the character has multiple abilities that improve the critical chance (which normally do not stack) in which case the best improvement applies to the attack roll, the next best improvement applies to the first confirmation roll, and so on, with one bonus applying to each roll. Examples: A fighter is attacking with a weapon with a critical range of 19-20 and a damage multiplier of x2. She rolls a 19 to hit. She rolls to confirm the critical and scores a 20. She is now inflicting a critical for x3 damage instead of just x2. She rolls again rolls a 19. She's now up to x4 damage. Her next roll is only a 15, so she stops rolling and inflicts damage at x4. She rolls a 19 to hit. She rolls to confirm and gets a roll of 18 plus bonuses. That confirms, but wasn't in the crit range so she just does x2. She picks up a Keen weapon, so it now has a threat range of 17-20. She rolls a 20 to hit. Her confirmation roll is an 18. While this is within the keen critical range, the bonus only applies on this first roll, so this is NOT another critical and the attack just hits for x2 damage. She now learns Improved Critical and has her Keen weapon (in the normal rules, this is a useless combination). She hits with an 18, so this is a possible critical. Her confirmation roll is a 17. Because each improved crit range can be applied to a different roll, she received one improved range on the first roll and one on this roll, so her crit range is still 17-20. This damage multiplier is increased to x3. Her next roll is a 19, another critical increasing to x4. Her next roll is an 18. Since the critical boosts only applied to the first 2 rolls, this is NOT a critical and she ends with x4 damage. Since there is no upper cap on criticals, an incredibly lucky hit could in theory kill anything - though the odds are quite low.
Gemstone 03-25-05, 01:38 PM	Sounds interesting, but I believe that i can become a bit unbalanced with certain weapons. there's a reason why weapons with 19-20 crit range are only x2
Ilium 03-25-05, 02:29 PM	I like it, but as Gemstone points out it'll take playtesting. What about this situation: The fighter has a keen longsword (threat range 17-20) and a total attack bonus of +10. Her target has AC 28. First roll is a 20. A threat. The roll to confirm is a 19. Confirmed. Damage is now x2 and she rolls again. The third roll is a 17. This is in the threat range, allowing an "exploding" roll, but it isn't actually good enough to hit. Does she do x3 damage? Does she get to roll again?
HailSpork 03-25-05, 03:19 PM	I've playtested this for a while. On the upside, it is fun for a player to roll two 20's in a row; the downside is it means that dangerous monsters have the potential to kill a player in one hit.
StormKnight 03-25-05, 04:06 PM	First roll is a 20. A threat. The roll to confirm is a 19. Confirmed. Damage is now x2 and she rolls again. The third roll is a 17. This is in the threat range, allowing an "exploding" roll, but it isn't actually good enough to hit. Does she do x3 damage? Does she get to roll again? <Wonders if I missed that in my original post...ahh, no there is it...> and the natural roll for the confirmation is within the critical hit range (and a hit), I had in mind that you do actually need the confirm roll to hit to get the extra critical damage. My original thought was that you would have to roll to confirm the increased damage. IE: (Needing a 17 to hit and a 19-20 to crit) Roll of 19 = potential critical, roll again to confirm. Confirmation roll of 20 = confirmed critical, potential +1 damage modifier, roll again to confirm. Now if the next roll was: 18 = good enough to hit target, so critical is confirmed at x3, but not a critical so exploding critical ends there. 12 = not confirmed, so just inflicts a base x2 critical 19 = confirmed for x3, and roll again for a possible x4. But that seemed like a lot of rolling. Another option would be to always have the critical chance after the initial attack roll be a 20 regardless of the weapon type. This puts all the weapons on the same footing. A Keen weapon wielded by someone with Improved Critical would still double the first critical confirm chance to 19-20.
Ilium 03-25-05, 04:25 PM	But unless I'm missing something your example still doesn't include the case where one of the follow-up rolls is in the threat range, but not actually a hit. In such a case do you: 1) Stop. All done. 2) Roll again, but not add 1 to the multiplier 3) Add 1 and roll again. I'm assuming it's either option 1 or option 2.
rbingham2000 03-26-05, 02:47 AM	My basic opinion is that exploding criticals should explode on a natural 20 on the confirmation roll. If you keep getting 20s on the confirmation roll, you keep adding to the multiplier. That said, the upside is that your PCs have the potential to dish out some truly heinous damage against monsters. But the downside is that the monsters have the potential to do the exact same thing to your PCs. There's a reason why some people don't like the "instant kill" variant rule for crits in the DMG.
StormKnight 03-28-05, 01:02 PM	But unless I'm missing something your example still doesn't include the case where one of the follow-up rolls is in the threat range, but not actually a hit. In such a case do you: 1) Stop. All done. 2) Roll again, but not add 1 to the multiplier 3) Add 1 and roll again. I'm assuming it's either option 1 or option 2. Option 1 - Stop, all done. A missed confirmation roll would not increase the critical multiplier, or confirm the critical hit, even if it were in the threat range, just as a regular attack that rolls a crit but doesn't hit (except for a natural 20) would not be a hit. That said, the upside is that your PCs have the potential to dish out some truly heinous damage against monsters. But the downside is that the monsters have the potential to do the exact same thing to your PCs. There's a reason why some people don't like the "instant kill" variant rule for crits in the DMG. Yeah, I'm not a fan of the "instant kill" rule, though it obviosly inspired this - a 1/400 chance of outright death seems to bad, but a 1/400 chance of taking slightly more extra damage doesn't seem too bad.
Shaudes29 04-01-05, 06:00 PM	greatsword+raging barbarian+ 8, 20's in row. Yes it really happend= (2d6+9)*9 or 18d6+81 avg.=144 damadge and 1 fort save. "he's dead jim" O I forgot it's a vorpal sword to.. :D
trapspringer 04-02-05, 08:31 PM	I would say let all their feats and magic apply to all rolls, but say the crit range decreases by 1 every roll.
Souza 04-03-05, 09:39 PM	I always ruled critical works that way. Thats how we played in 2ED here. In my last campaing, everyone was lvl 7 when a MM standart orc (there to be a fodder, the only survivor of the wizard area spell) charged the wizard, rolled a 20 (x3). followed by two 20's (x5) and then confirmed.. 1d12+3 x5 = auto kill for that poor guy.
kjamma4 04-06-05, 05:19 PM	Well, not really an exploding crit, but our house rule is if you roll a 20 to hit and a 20 to confirm, you don't roll damage - you do maximum damage (i.e. as if you rolled the highest possible on your damage die/dice.) However, we do not allow this if a natural twenty plus your total bonuses is less than the opponent's AC. [edit:meaning that if you could mathematically hit by rolling a 20, we allow it but if the only way you could hit is by relying on the "20 is always a hit" rule, we don't allow it.]