"It's you, not your gear" variant rule [Archive] - Wizards Community

"It's you, not your gear" variant rule [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Goldenloveninja
02-04-06, 02:17 AM Hi all. I'm a first time DM and would like to use this variant (because stats and feats are way cooler than magic items). Anyone have any comments on this for a first timer? I wouldn't hesitate if this weren't my first time.

(Stephen “Shoe” Schubert, Developer)
It’s You, Not Your Gear: Treasure is reduced 10-15% and permanent ability score boosting items are banned. Instead, characters get a stat increase at every even level (instead of every four levels) and a feat at every odd level

the link: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20051216a (at the bottom of the page, right before the "you craft the creature).

If it makes any difference, I'm running the Sunless Citadel. I can probably drop the value fairly easily just by axeing gold found and such.

Nathan
azoun
02-04-06, 09:45 AM hello,

I've never tried it myself, but it sounds very interesting... coz' that's true, feats are really a cool feature of the game !

maybe the only point is this : are your players new to D&D ? coz' as a first time experience with the game, I think it's good to discover how the game is in itself (i.e. PCs relying a lot on their magic items the more they advance in levels).

otherwise (if they already know "classic" D&D) it could be very nice to give a try to this style of play, as they'll really see the difference, and appreciate it (i guess).
Jimmy_the_Saint
02-04-06, 10:22 AM Just talk it over with your players and call a vote of some sort.

Personally, I’d love to use this rule. More feats give a player a lot more options for character development and indeed improve the characters themselves compared to slapping on a lot of nifty items.

However, this will probably take them some more time during planning, as a feat isn’t as easily ‘swapped’ as a specific item, you’re stuck with it for the rest of your career.

As long as both you and your players like it, go for it…
AT-AT Assault
02-04-06, 01:20 PM One thing that you have to consider is that the monsters are designed with the amount of gear the players are 'supposed to have' in mind. So taking away gear reduces the ECL of your PCs somewhat. A way to easily solve this is to figure out what stats the monsters have at ECL 1 and just add character levels to them(this gets rid of all the monsters special abilites that are created with gear in mind that makes the monster so powerful and makes it easier to judge how powerful something is because each character level equals 1 CR level)
Salamandyr
02-04-06, 02:13 PM One thing to point out is that, if you use the alternate rule as written, there is no need to adjust CR, since the character's will have roughly equivalent stats as a normal game that includes +2 to various stat wondrous items.

I'm currently working on a system to balance out a low to no magic item campaign to with normal CR critters.
starfire311
02-06-06, 02:13 PM lets just compare the 2 systems at level 20, to simplify it. Sicne level 20 is when gear means the most, if the 2 systems seem even I think you will be fine

under currect system at level 20 you get
+5 to Atributes
7 feats(1 1st + 1/3 levels)
750kgp worth of gear(if my memory is correct)

under your system
+10 to atributes(1 every even level)
10 feats(1 every odd level)
675kgp worth of gear(750kgp-10%)

So for the cost of 75kgp you are getting a net +5 to attributes, and +3 feats.

what do you all think, I think it is a bargain.
beat_takeshi
02-07-06, 05:32 AM I prefer abilities to magic gear as well.
Possibly feats favour melee characters.
If it were my game I'd let players buy class levels (by donating to a church or spending on training). The cost would have to increase rapidly of course. And bought levels wouldn't count for determing cr.
Makuya
02-07-06, 03:08 PM Iron Heroes has all that you need, sir.
Salamandyr
02-07-06, 06:21 PM lets just compare the 2 systems at level 20, to simplify it. Sicne level 20 is when gear means the most, if the 2 systems seem even I think you will be fine

under currect system at level 20 you get
+5 to Atributes
7 feats(1 1st + 1/3 levels)
750kgp worth of gear(if my memory is correct)

under your system
+10 to atributes(1 every even level)
10 feats(1 every odd level)
675kgp worth of gear(750kgp-10%)

So for the cost of 75kgp you are getting a net +5 to attributes, and +3 feats.

what do you all think, I think it is a bargain.

You're missing the point...No plus to attribute gear. No girdles of giant strength, no headbands of intellect. No tomes of inherent bonuses. None of it. Yeah, you get +10 to your stats over 20 levels, but you lose +6 to any stat you can pay 36000 gold and find a slot for.

Means somewhat lower stats, but in return you get the feeling that your character is powerful, not just a walking hardware store of gear.
sedqon
02-07-06, 07:22 PM I really love the idea behind this. There are so many games where gear makes the PC, so to speak, and it's always really bothered me. After all, why in the nine hells did i just bother to level up when i could just set up a pyramid scheme/become a slumlord/sell ridiculously powerful magic doors i found in dungeons, etc, and use the money to become as powerful as the fool who risks life and limb fighting unspeakable things in nasty, cramped, trap-ridden corridors?

Sorry about the run-on there, I'm on a puncuation budget.

Edit: What do you suppose this would mean for Wishing up stats? on the one hand its not an item that grants a permanent ability bonus. On the other hand, it does give a permanent ability increase, and its pretty much comparable to those magic books that do the same thing.
Toxic_Shaman
02-08-06, 07:59 AM I like any option that reduces characters dependence on gear, but it will change the game a bit. In most games I play in, no one bothers with stat increasing spells much once you get past about level 12 or so because they overlap with the enhancement bonuses from items.

With this varient stat increasing spells will probably be utilized a good bit more, not that its a bad thing, just different.

This will tend to make Gishes a bit more powerful, particularly Psychic Warriors, who at high levels can buff their Strength, Con and Dex all at the same time with one manifestation of Aninal Affinity.
starfire311
02-08-06, 09:22 AM You're missing the point...No plus to attribute gear. No girdles of giant strength, no headbands of intellect. No tomes of inherent bonuses. None of it. Yeah, you get +10 to your stats over 20 levels, but you lose +6 to any stat you can pay 36000 gold and find a slot for.

Means somewhat lower stats, but in return you get the feeling that your character is powerful, not just a walking hardware store of gear.

Um, I dont think I missed the point at all, the point is that for a cost of 75k I got some feats and some stats. How does have 675k instead of 750k to spend on gear going to remove that feeling. You still have 675k to spend on gear. So what if it has to be non-stat enhancing items. BTW I do disagree with the removal of the tomes and manuals... If wish can still get you an inherent bonus, you can still just buy a box of wish scrolls instead.

I really like the idea, I just disagree with the imlementation, I think the gold should be reduced more, at least 50% along with more benefits, to truly get the feeling of it is you not the gear.
starfire311
02-08-06, 09:24 AM I like any option that reduces characters dependence on gear, but it will change the game a bit. In most games I play in, no one bothers with stat increasing spells much once you get past about level 12 or so because they overlap with the enhancement bonuses from items.

With this varient stat increasing spells will probably be utilized a good bit more, not that its a bad thing, just different.

This will tend to make Gishes a bit more powerful, particularly Psychic Warriors, who at high levels can buff their Strength, Con and Dex all at the same time with one manifestation of Aninal Affinity.

Good point, but IMO Gishes have always been a little underpowered, granted they get the all poweful wraithstrike, and my bladesinger now has the all powerful extended wraithstrike. At least, my group thinks it is too powerful, the DM really doesn't.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Goldenloveninja 02-04-06, 02:17 AM	Hi all. I'm a first time DM and would like to use this variant (because stats and feats are way cooler than magic items). Anyone have any comments on this for a first timer? I wouldn't hesitate if this weren't my first time. (Stephen “Shoe” Schubert, Developer) It’s You, Not Your Gear: Treasure is reduced 10-15% and permanent ability score boosting items are banned. Instead, characters get a stat increase at every even level (instead of every four levels) and a feat at every odd level the link: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20051216a (at the bottom of the page, right before the "you craft the creature). If it makes any difference, I'm running the Sunless Citadel. I can probably drop the value fairly easily just by axeing gold found and such. Nathan
azoun 02-04-06, 09:45 AM	hello, I've never tried it myself, but it sounds very interesting... coz' that's true, feats are really a cool feature of the game ! maybe the only point is this : are your players new to D&D ? coz' as a first time experience with the game, I think it's good to discover how the game is in itself (i.e. PCs relying a lot on their magic items the more they advance in levels). otherwise (if they already know "classic" D&D) it could be very nice to give a try to this style of play, as they'll really see the difference, and appreciate it (i guess).
Jimmy_the_Saint 02-04-06, 10:22 AM	Just talk it over with your players and call a vote of some sort. Personally, I’d love to use this rule. More feats give a player a lot more options for character development and indeed improve the characters themselves compared to slapping on a lot of nifty items. However, this will probably take them some more time during planning, as a feat isn’t as easily ‘swapped’ as a specific item, you’re stuck with it for the rest of your career. As long as both you and your players like it, go for it…
AT-AT Assault 02-04-06, 01:20 PM	One thing that you have to consider is that the monsters are designed with the amount of gear the players are 'supposed to have' in mind. So taking away gear reduces the ECL of your PCs somewhat. A way to easily solve this is to figure out what stats the monsters have at ECL 1 and just add character levels to them(this gets rid of all the monsters special abilites that are created with gear in mind that makes the monster so powerful and makes it easier to judge how powerful something is because each character level equals 1 CR level)
Salamandyr 02-04-06, 02:13 PM	One thing to point out is that, if you use the alternate rule as written, there is no need to adjust CR, since the character's will have roughly equivalent stats as a normal game that includes +2 to various stat wondrous items. I'm currently working on a system to balance out a low to no magic item campaign to with normal CR critters.
starfire311 02-06-06, 02:13 PM	lets just compare the 2 systems at level 20, to simplify it. Sicne level 20 is when gear means the most, if the 2 systems seem even I think you will be fine under currect system at level 20 you get +5 to Atributes 7 feats(1 1st + 1/3 levels) 750kgp worth of gear(if my memory is correct) under your system +10 to atributes(1 every even level) 10 feats(1 every odd level) 675kgp worth of gear(750kgp-10%) So for the cost of 75kgp you are getting a net +5 to attributes, and +3 feats. what do you all think, I think it is a bargain.
beat_takeshi 02-07-06, 05:32 AM	I prefer abilities to magic gear as well. Possibly feats favour melee characters. If it were my game I'd let players buy class levels (by donating to a church or spending on training). The cost would have to increase rapidly of course. And bought levels wouldn't count for determing cr.
Makuya 02-07-06, 03:08 PM	Iron Heroes has all that you need, sir.
Salamandyr 02-07-06, 06:21 PM	lets just compare the 2 systems at level 20, to simplify it. Sicne level 20 is when gear means the most, if the 2 systems seem even I think you will be fine under currect system at level 20 you get +5 to Atributes 7 feats(1 1st + 1/3 levels) 750kgp worth of gear(if my memory is correct) under your system +10 to atributes(1 every even level) 10 feats(1 every odd level) 675kgp worth of gear(750kgp-10%) So for the cost of 75kgp you are getting a net +5 to attributes, and +3 feats. what do you all think, I think it is a bargain. You're missing the point...No plus to attribute gear. No girdles of giant strength, no headbands of intellect. No tomes of inherent bonuses. None of it. Yeah, you get +10 to your stats over 20 levels, but you lose +6 to any stat you can pay 36000 gold and find a slot for. Means somewhat lower stats, but in return you get the feeling that your character is powerful, not just a walking hardware store of gear.
sedqon 02-07-06, 07:22 PM	I really love the idea behind this. There are so many games where gear makes the PC, so to speak, and it's always really bothered me. After all, why in the nine hells did i just bother to level up when i could just set up a pyramid scheme/become a slumlord/sell ridiculously powerful magic doors i found in dungeons, etc, and use the money to become as powerful as the fool who risks life and limb fighting unspeakable things in nasty, cramped, trap-ridden corridors? Sorry about the run-on there, I'm on a puncuation budget. Edit: What do you suppose this would mean for Wishing up stats? on the one hand its not an item that grants a permanent ability bonus. On the other hand, it does give a permanent ability increase, and its pretty much comparable to those magic books that do the same thing.
Toxic_Shaman 02-08-06, 07:59 AM	I like any option that reduces characters dependence on gear, but it will change the game a bit. In most games I play in, no one bothers with stat increasing spells much once you get past about level 12 or so because they overlap with the enhancement bonuses from items. With this varient stat increasing spells will probably be utilized a good bit more, not that its a bad thing, just different. This will tend to make Gishes a bit more powerful, particularly Psychic Warriors, who at high levels can buff their Strength, Con and Dex all at the same time with one manifestation of Aninal Affinity.
starfire311 02-08-06, 09:22 AM	You're missing the point...No plus to attribute gear. No girdles of giant strength, no headbands of intellect. No tomes of inherent bonuses. None of it. Yeah, you get +10 to your stats over 20 levels, but you lose +6 to any stat you can pay 36000 gold and find a slot for. Means somewhat lower stats, but in return you get the feeling that your character is powerful, not just a walking hardware store of gear. Um, I dont think I missed the point at all, the point is that for a cost of 75k I got some feats and some stats. How does have 675k instead of 750k to spend on gear going to remove that feeling. You still have 675k to spend on gear. So what if it has to be non-stat enhancing items. BTW I do disagree with the removal of the tomes and manuals... If wish can still get you an inherent bonus, you can still just buy a box of wish scrolls instead. I really like the idea, I just disagree with the imlementation, I think the gold should be reduced more, at least 50% along with more benefits, to truly get the feeling of it is you not the gear.
starfire311 02-08-06, 09:24 AM	I like any option that reduces characters dependence on gear, but it will change the game a bit. In most games I play in, no one bothers with stat increasing spells much once you get past about level 12 or so because they overlap with the enhancement bonuses from items. With this varient stat increasing spells will probably be utilized a good bit more, not that its a bad thing, just different. This will tend to make Gishes a bit more powerful, particularly Psychic Warriors, who at high levels can buff their Strength, Con and Dex all at the same time with one manifestation of Aninal Affinity. Good point, but IMO Gishes have always been a little underpowered, granted they get the all poweful wraithstrike, and my bladesinger now has the all powerful extended wraithstrike. At least, my group thinks it is too powerful, the DM really doesn't.