Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grizzled Gryphon 04-02-07, 07:33 PM	What is the worst possible gestalt class you can think of? I am not talking race, or what feats you take, or any of that. Just the worst possible gestalt class. I submit the Healer/Divine Mind. Can't go wrong with the two worst classes in the game, right?
Tim4488 04-02-07, 09:54 PM	Shugenja/Spirit Shaman (both CD version). Because... just why?
Grizzled Gryphon 04-02-07, 09:58 PM	Shugenja/Spirit Shaman (both CD version). Because... just why? Your a really spiritual kind of guy?
Crimson_Concerto 04-02-07, 10:35 PM	Well, without going into NPC classes like Commoner, I'm going to have to say Sorcerer/Wizard. Now granted, it's powerful, sure, but it doesn't really help at all. I mean, it gets no boost to HD, BAB, skills, saves, or familiar, it casts from the same spell list, and worst of all, it now has two casting stats to worry about. Sure, it still gets 9th level spells and is thus uber, but I really think that Gestalt actually weakens this character instead of helping him...
FeceMan 04-02-07, 11:08 PM	but I really think that Gestalt actually weakens this character instead of helping him... I think it's more "gives him less of a power boost than other combinations" than "weakens."
Crimson_Concerto 04-03-07, 01:23 AM	I think it's more "gives him less of a power boost than other combinations" than "weakens." Well, I saw "weakens" because now the character is worried about MAD between INT and CHA instead of having the luxury of focusing on one stat, and the benifit it gets from this gestalt is not enough to justify it, IMO.
IceFractal 04-03-07, 04:01 AM	Depends, actually. If both the Wizard and Sorcerer side are combat-spell focussed, then it's fairly useless, as you can still only cast the same number of spells a round. If, however, you went combat-focussed on the Sorcerer side and used the Wizard side to fill in utility and off-day spells, then it could be a useful combination, although not as powerful as some.
Grizzled Gryphon 04-03-07, 09:44 PM	Yeah, you can play a Wizard/Sorcerer pretty well. Sure, other combos are better, but this aint too shabby. On a side note, has anyone else noticed how impressive the Factotum is with gestalt? Especially with a caster class on the other side? Almost so good, it should be banned from gestalt games.
Krusk 04-03-07, 10:03 PM	Id have to say rogue/ninja. You are essentially just a rogue, who can go invisable and use poison and deal tons of sneak attack. You cant do the point of gestalt which is to increase your versatility.
bartleby42 04-04-07, 01:05 AM	I submit Soulborn//Palidin What you get: More smites then the average pally. A different spin on the other half of your spellcasting, immunity to fear (twice), everything else, the same, the same BAB, HD and saves. Not only are you a half caster in two classes, but you just as many abilities as a non gestalt charecter, the only differences between a Soulborn//Palidin and a Palidin are meldshaping and extra smites, fun huh?
RobbyPants 04-05-07, 10:59 AM	I'd submit the Fighter/Monk. Too much of their abilities don't synergize well. Particularly: The Monk's unarmored AC vs the fighter's armor proficiency. The monk's unarmed attacks vs the fighters weapon proficiency. The monk's 3 primary saves won't stack with the fighter's primary Fort save (although, at least all three are still primary ;)) Granted, I wouldn't consider it a weak combo, in that a monk with lots of feats and full BAB is quite nice, but I think there are some combinations out there that overlap perfectly, thus minimizing waste. It's sort of like a Barbarian/Fighter. You'd make a great tank, but you'd have no versitility... although this could make for an interesting campaign; one where the DM insists that each player make a gestalt character to fully fill one role (Figher/Barbarian, Rogue/Ninja, Cleric/Druid or Paladin, and Wizard/Sorcerer)...
Grizzled Gryphon 04-05-07, 09:36 PM	I can see where you are coming from about the Monk/Fighter, but in truth, (as far as the games I have run and played in) Monk/Fighter is pretty nice. However, Fighter is the problem there, not the combo. The ONLY reason anyone has taken fighter on one side of the Gestalt is for the full BAB and the bonus feats. Sometimes for the hit points and armor, too. For example, Psion/Fighter is nice for this very reason. However, if you ask the player of a Psion/Fighter what his character is, he will usually answer, "a Psion. Oh, with Fighter on the other side of the gestalt". Now, if he were playing a Rogue /Psion, then they usaully say "I am playing a Psion/Rogue". Fighter is only used for those reasons. So, fighter is just a nice addition because of the class features, and nothing more. On a similar note, you could say that a Scout/Rogue is bad. And, for a lot of reasons, you would be right. However, in play, it is amazingly useful. There are factors of Gestalt that actually hinder the character. For Example, a Wizard/Cleric can be impressive. However, it isn't as nice in a lot of ways as a straight Wizard, or a straight Cleric. If, for example, you are playing only a Cleric, you have all of your feats to focus on that. With gestalt, you have to split them, and that can actually hurt them to some extent. That is why some of the combos that are effectively different versions of the same thing work so well together, like the previously mentioned Scout/Rogue. Some classes, however, are beyond meshing. That is what I am looking for here. No particular reason, just one of those "hmm, this might be fun" ideas. I have suddenly thought of something. I haven't experienced one, so it may be bad or good. Maybe one of you know? Is a Warlock/Dragonfire Adept any good?
SokenzanMarauder 04-05-07, 10:03 PM	Knight/Rogue Basically you can't do anything roguish (ex. sneak attack) because of your Knight's code. Huzzah! -Gene
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-05-07, 10:08 PM	Well... Barbarian/Psychic Warrior. Guess what you can't do while raging!
Grizzled Gryphon 04-05-07, 10:21 PM	Nice one, SokenzanMarauder!! That does suck in its own special way, doesn't it? Thomar, that is a good one, too. Barbarian is basically the worst possible choice for any caster type.
Crimson_Concerto 04-05-07, 11:07 PM	Knight/Rogue Basically you can't do anything roguish (ex. sneak attack) because of your Knight's code. Huzzah! -Gene Actually, a recent Ask Wizards article clarified that you CAN indeed sneak attack without infringing on the the Knight's Code by flanking. You can't take advantage of the +2 to hit (though you won't need it quite as much with the full BAB), but you can still apply your bonus sneak attack damage.
Krusk 04-06-07, 01:32 AM	A knght//rogue could also disarm those dishonerable traps and force his opponents to fight fair.
Mirandul 04-06-07, 07:07 AM	Artificer/ Truenamer with a vow of poverty :D.
ZiggZagg 04-06-07, 08:29 AM	Samurai/Spellthief...two junk classes make...one junk class:D Or, how about Monk/Barbarian. So junky...it's illegal LoL Warmage/Rogue. Now don't get me wrong, the combo could work...but it just doesn't go well together flavor wise. "I sneak through the castle, elusively dodge all 642 guards, pick the lock to the corrupt noble's room, then, as he is sleeping, I sneak up and...DELAYED BLAST FIREBALL!" Real subtle, good job. You assassinated the noble, plus half the maid staff
starfire311 04-06-07, 10:12 AM	What is the worst possible gestalt class you can think of? I am not talking race, or what feats you take, or any of that. Just the worst possible gestalt class. I submit the Healer/Divine Mind. Can't go wrong with the two worst classes in the game, right? I never thought that divine mind was considored to be the 2nd weakest class in the game, I have always thought it was pretty strong, in an upcoming gestalt game I plan to play a divine mind/crusader. Keep in mind we will also have a 3 other PCs one will be part marshal, one will be part bard and one will be part dragon shaman, not sure what the other parts will be, but the idea was the "ultimate team players" party. I believe the party was going to end up as. Divine Mind/Crusader Dragon Shaman/Knight Bard/Sorceror Marshal/Beguiler no pure divine spell caster but 3 of us can heal.
Holy_Beholder 05-05-07, 04:15 PM	Soulknife/Monk The monk already has perfect saves, gains barely any HP, and can't use flurry of blows with their mind blade(until high level, which they will never reach)
Drachasor 05-05-07, 06:42 PM	What about a Bard/Monk? Bad: 3/4 BAB d8 hit die Monk MAD + Charisma needs Not really better at fighting than a pure Monk. I think that to find bad combos you want to go with non-casters or bad/poor casters, and maximize MAD. Preferably only 3/4 BAB classes too. Speaking of which Soulknife/Monk is pretty bad. Edit: That's what I get for just skimming the posts! Good call, Holy Beholder. -Drachasor
Vaelan 05-05-07, 10:23 PM	Samurai/Fighter Feats and more free feats! What about a Bard/Monk? I would play that. Awesome skills, great defenses, and you get to wreck people in melee combat by using Flurry of Blows, buffing magic, Bardic Music, and Arcane Strke. Samurai/Spellthief Full BAB, free TWF, sneak attack to make the free TWF worthwhile, awesome skills, and the ability to steal spells which is especially useful in gestalt games as many people have more spells than they could possibly cast thus making them willing targets to leech spells from. Barbarian/Psychic Warrior Buff up, Rage, then dominate combat. I don't see the bad part.
Vengeblade 05-07-07, 08:16 AM	The truth is, depending on the campaign, you can make almost anything worth it. MAD doesn't really matter in games where characters usually end up with 2 or 3 17s/18s. Here's s list of characters I've seen in my years as a gestalt DM (the only way to play for my group now) Wizard/Cleric Rogue/Ranger Fighter/Cleric Wizard/Ranger/Havoc Mage (scary as hell at times) Druid/Fighter Fighter/Ranger Fighter/Incarnate Fighter/Psychic warrior (I let them have all the feats, no balance problems there) Scout/rogue Cleric/favored soul (Killed undead CR 4 higer then him in 2 rounds.) Paladin/Marshal (Not very offensive, but good luck killing him or his allies, especially with any spells that allow saves.) Ninja/Cleric Barbarian/Fighter/Frenzied Berserker (would've been awesome if the player wasn't so dumb) Ninja(only 1 level)/wizard/archivist/loredelver Warmage/sorcerer/bonded summoner Incaranate/Barbarian (deadliest character I've seen yet in my games) Druid/Cleric Rogue/Fighter Binder/Totemist Knight/Fighter Cleric/Healer (He was with the barbarian/incarnate, couldn't kill either of them as long as they were within eyesight of each other.) Scout/Fighter Now my current group: Psion/Swordsage/Jade phoenix (modified for psions and arcane users) Fighter/Monk/Kensai Healer/Binder (Not powerful, but always ahs a good trick up her sleeve to make me make my WTF face at least twice a session) Warlock/Rogue/Going hellfire warlock Crusader/Favored Soul Fighter/Bard/Dervish Fighter/Rogue/Sniper Elite (PrC I made focused on long range rifle combat. Now, I made the class after he chose to focus in ranged combat, so he didn't choose this comba for range for a non official class. P.S. anyone who wants to get a copy of my class please feel free to PM me.) All of these combos have potential and have done very well. It's simply a matter of RP concept and finding the right skills/feats/class options to make it work.
Salla 05-08-07, 01:34 AM	Knight/Rogue Basically you can't do anything roguish (ex. sneak attack) because of your Knight's code. Huzzah! -Gene Actually, a knight with Sneak Attack can sneak attack while flanking or invisible ('denied DEX bonus to AC' is not the same thing as 'flat-footed'), although he doesn't enjoy the +2 to hit while doing so. Also notice that no other applications of stealth or trapsmithery are prohibited. I think I'll do this if I ever get the opportunity. :)
NoldorForce 05-08-07, 11:31 AM	Samurai//Divine Mind, combining what are considered to be among the worst base classes printed. Truenamer//War Hulk, making one side of the progression completely nullify the other. Incarnate is a fairly good choice for gestalt, as is Factotum or Akashic (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_MCAE_Akashic) if combined with Chameleon. The latter set allows you to qualify for item creation feats, due to SLAs.
RealSorceror 05-08-07, 02:23 PM	Courtier(Rokugan)/Healer. :D Oh gawd, I've always wanted to play an Ultimate Magus/Eldritch Thuerge and then lay seige to a country .............a big country.
TwiddleStootch 05-09-07, 03:54 PM	Samurai(CW)//Monk Seriously, almost all of the Samurai's abilties only work with a Katana/Wakazashi, and a monk can't flurry with either. The only other abilities of the Samurai are Cha based, which is the best dumb stat for monks. It is basically a monk with 10d HD and dull BAB, not bad, but far from great. At least as a fighter//monk, you get nice feats.
Vaelan 05-09-07, 10:46 PM	At least as a fighter//monk, you get nice feats. Monk gives you great saves and SR, though. Pretty handy for someone with no magical aptitude. I could see this being worse than a Fighter/Samurai that picked really good feats, but on average, I think the Fighter/Samurai is worse. None of it beats Truenamer/Warhulk though. That is just terrible.
unundindur 05-14-07, 08:39 AM	What about a Bard/Monk? Bad: 3/4 BAB d8 hit die Monk MAD + Charisma needs Not really better at fighting than a pure Monk. I think that to find bad combos you want to go with non-casters or bad/poor casters, and maximize MAD. Preferably only 3/4 BAB classes too. Speaking of which Soulknife/Monk is pretty bad. Edit: That's what I get for just skimming the posts! Good call, Holy Beholder. -Drachasor At last someone came with what i had in mind! Take two classes that already mix classes and now you have 1/4+1/4+1/4+1/4 class, where some of the parts might even fall together. utterly useless! :D Another option is a swashbuckler/paladin. You don't get good at anything, and you are inclined to fight light :P
Vaelan 05-14-07, 10:42 AM	At last someone came with what i had in mind! Take two classes that already mix classes and now you have 1/4+1/4+1/4+1/4 class, where some of the parts might even fall together. utterly useless! :D There tends to be synergy in such builds, which makes them quite effective.
Chimaera2000 05-14-07, 08:14 PM	A sorcerer/wizard..... with 6 Intelligence and Charisma. :P
Vaelan 05-14-07, 08:24 PM	A sorcerer/wizard..... with 6 Intelligence and Charisma. :P What is the worst possible gestalt class you can think of? I am not talking race, or what feats you take, or any of that. Just the worst possible gestalt class. I'm betting that ability scores count as "any of that".
Koretsu 05-18-07, 04:46 AM	Knight/Sorcerer Congratulations! Your high charisma makes you good, but your class abilities focused around heavy armor and no armor respectively make you weaksause. Also, you have only on good save. Go you!
Krusk 05-18-07, 07:45 AM	but if the kngiht sorcerer prestige classed into any sort of gish build you are set.
Vaelan 05-18-07, 08:50 AM	but if the kngiht sorcerer prestige classed into any sort of gish build you are set. Most of those are likely to set off the dual-progression alarm, though.
Krusk 05-18-07, 09:14 AM	spellsword dosn't set off dual progression IMO. it actually only grants a few benifits to a gestalt sorcerer knight. spells in armor. they already have the BAB and a better Hid die. plus dont they loose out on spells?
ff6shadow 05-18-07, 12:12 PM	I'm going to say Healer/Samurai(CW). You can't wear metal armor, and Samurai is the worst base class printed
obrysii 05-18-07, 12:42 PM	Merfolk 1/Bard 9/Dragon Disciple 10//Fighter 20 Or even worse: Merfolk 1/Bard 9/Dragon Disciple 10//Healer 20
Krusk 05-18-07, 02:58 PM	there are about 40 diffrent base classes and varients right? do a level in each of them, splitting awkwardly so as never to get a point of BAB and the lowest saves bonus available. you will spend most of the day preparing your amazing list of 1st and 0 level spells. rage for a bit, and then its time to go back to sleep. 1 hr prep time for each of your casting classes or even the ones with 15 min prep time means you sit around all day.
Holy_Beholder 05-18-07, 09:43 PM	Almost anything when everyone else in your group is a Druid/Cleric.
Nathreet 05-18-07, 09:54 PM	bard/rogue Basically a bard w/ trapfinding and sneak attack. Or a rogue with minor spellcasting. You do get some okay spells, but you get them late. Whoop-dee-doo.