Another new magic system, but this one is different. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Another new magic system, but this one is different. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
elven warriorXX
03-07-06, 11:39 AM I have been thinking of having the caster put his energy into spells but I don't want to use SP because that makes it to much like Psionics which I want magic and Psionics different. Then I was thinking of having the casterpower up a spell with his HP but that will never work, then I thought of something new: what if Spellcasters get a special type of HP points that they can use to power up spell. Each damage spell starts off dealing damage of the lowest level caster that can cast it (5d6 for fireball) and you must spend points to power it up. You can spend more then your level as in Psionics.

Some spells will have to become more Scaleabe and that will take a long time. A caster regains these points when he sleeps and at 1 point per minute of rest, and not taking any actions (like HP in some ways). When the caster uses up half of his Point he is Fatigued untill he gains those points back. If he is at 0 HP he is Exhausted untill he gains 1 point back then he is Fatigued again. If he spends 10 min resting he losses his Fatigue no matter how many points he has. Every time he casts a spell after that he must make a Fort save of 10+spell level+points used or become Fatigued again.

A spell caster gains 1d10+max level of spell he can cast every level, a max of 11 at first level.

So does it seem balanced?
Lucan_Desmond
03-07-06, 10:31 PM I've tried creating a new magic system from the ground up before and after almost an entire year spent working on it I realized one thing... You're better off just using the Spell Point system from Unearthed Arcana. Your system sounds like a pretty good idea, but you have to take into account how much the spells are going to cost, how does that compare to the number of spells per day the character would normally get, and that any point based magic system will allow use of many more high level spells per day since the character can decide to spend all his spell points on the highest level of spells he can use. I know the Spell Point system presented in Unearthed Arcana is a carbon copy of Psionics, but trust me, if you want to re-write the magic system than you have to re-write all the other rules too. Magic is a pretty balanced system in the D&D world so if it changes, so do the rules for everything else. What I did for my campaign to make things more original was switch the Sorcerer around a bit so that it uses the Spell Point system and simply not allow psionics in my campaign... I never liked them anyway.

Well anyway, good luck with your efforts in magic and sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
Happy Gaming!
elven warriorXX
03-08-06, 10:56 AM Thanks for your comments. Indeed it will take a lot of work but WOTC does it so I want to try too. The average of point a spell caster gets at 20th level is 111. This is just to boost spells. Maybe I should make the Dice 1d8 instead of 1d10. There is no cost, for casting the spell. Spellcasters use Spell slots like normal but must uses these 'Boost points' to power them up. So lets say a 10th level Sorcerer is gonna cast Fireball, it normally does 5d6 but he wants to cast the most powerful Fireball he can by using his Energy, so he spends 5 points to raise it to 10d6.

I may make it that it costs Its level of the spell in 'Boost points' to cast it. With this system a 20th level Wizard can not cast more then 4 9th level spells because he prepares spells.

This system will only be for Arcane casters, Divine casters will gain 4 spells that they can put on any level of spell when they gain a new spell level. They can cast these spells as a Sorcerer.
moth
04-26-06, 03:37 AM I did something similar as well. I took the spell points from UA with the fatigue variant which is very similar to what you are doing and added in that you gain sp in a similar fashion to hp. You have the ability to burn con after you are out of sp. I have only run into one problem that is very balanced by fatiguing the casters and that is the ability to pull off powerful spells. I make the sp cost of spells equal half the dc rounded up (Note: my spells are cast using skills so that may make the difference, and yes spell casters get more skill points for this reason). My spells are built on the spot using Monte Cooks Chaos Magic tables. This allows for extreme flexibility and the possibility of power spells at lower levels, but if a caster spends their entire sp on big spells they quickly run out and become too tired to do much of anything really quickly. This makes my players use them on spells more akin to their level and save the big spells for when they would really be needed.
It also makes spell casters scene stealers some times, but then again they are spell casters they should be able to steal the scene sometimes with their magic. Just like a fighter can steal the scene by swathing through a crowd of enemies with his big massive sword. These are possible but don't always happen. It also changes what class levels mean power wise and in my setting/rules system it makes players more powerful than your average D20 characters at the same level. I found this out by pitting two 3rd level characters against a CR 5 monster, under played it a little and they creamed it in about 2 or 3 rounds. One of the characters was a fighter type class (I have custom classes to work with a completely changed magic system) and the other was a fighter/mage.

My ADD has gotten the best of me on this post and I have started rambling and gone off topic a little (maybe?). I guess the purpose of my rambling was to show some of the things I have run into using a similar system. My system uses an additional ability called magic that every gets. The sp gained is done like so: (Magic mod) d4+ (con mod) you get max at first and then roll at each additional level. The sp is used to fuel all spells and could be used to fuel item as well. You gain sp back just like you gain hp. You could use something similar to keep the 'Boost points' from being a high number.

What I see happening, and your examples show it clearly, that you can quickly have really powerful spells. A problem I have with my system as already stated. By keeping the 'boost points' low and/or instituting the fatigue variant rule for them from UA then this would evenly balance it out without making it useless. You could keep the dice small say a d4 but you gain these boost points at each arcane caster lvl like hit points. Perhaps 1d4+ (int mod) each level. With the fatigue points and a maxed out int, sure a mage could pull off a hefty magic missile or nigh impenetrable mage armor, but he would be exhausted afterwards and it would take a few days to get back up to max 'boost points' again. Something a spell caster would not want to do unless it was absolutely necessary. For example say he has an int of 18 and we give him a max for 'boost points'. At 8 (1st level) he would be fatigued after spending 4 of these and exhausted after spending two more. The minuses of these conditions could also apply to casting as a form of a distraction on their mind perhaps (in my system it is applied to casting since casting is skill based and is another deterrent from casting uber spells at low levels).
Just my thoughts. Ignore those that say it's not worth creating your own magic system. If done right it will bring you a lot of satisfaction and could even make for some really happy players. I know my players love the magic system, but I have run into a few after describing it that said no way would I want to mess with it.
Millennium
04-26-06, 01:02 PM Have you considered combining the Spellpoints and Vitality/Wounds sections of Unearthed Arcana? Under such a system, a spell might drain Vitality (though never Wounds) instead of a separate pool of spell points.

Mind you, it's still video-game magic, with all the problems that entails, But it sounds as though it should give you more or less the desired effect.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
elven warriorXX 03-07-06, 11:39 AM	I have been thinking of having the caster put his energy into spells but I don't want to use SP because that makes it to much like Psionics which I want magic and Psionics different. Then I was thinking of having the casterpower up a spell with his HP but that will never work, then I thought of something new: what if Spellcasters get a special type of HP points that they can use to power up spell. Each damage spell starts off dealing damage of the lowest level caster that can cast it (5d6 for fireball) and you must spend points to power it up. You can spend more then your level as in Psionics. Some spells will have to become more Scaleabe and that will take a long time. A caster regains these points when he sleeps and at 1 point per minute of rest, and not taking any actions (like HP in some ways). When the caster uses up half of his Point he is Fatigued untill he gains those points back. If he is at 0 HP he is Exhausted untill he gains 1 point back then he is Fatigued again. If he spends 10 min resting he losses his Fatigue no matter how many points he has. Every time he casts a spell after that he must make a Fort save of 10+spell level+points used or become Fatigued again. A spell caster gains 1d10+max level of spell he can cast every level, a max of 11 at first level. So does it seem balanced?
Lucan_Desmond 03-07-06, 10:31 PM	I've tried creating a new magic system from the ground up before and after almost an entire year spent working on it I realized one thing... You're better off just using the Spell Point system from Unearthed Arcana. Your system sounds like a pretty good idea, but you have to take into account how much the spells are going to cost, how does that compare to the number of spells per day the character would normally get, and that any point based magic system will allow use of many more high level spells per day since the character can decide to spend all his spell points on the highest level of spells he can use. I know the Spell Point system presented in Unearthed Arcana is a carbon copy of Psionics, but trust me, if you want to re-write the magic system than you have to re-write all the other rules too. Magic is a pretty balanced system in the D&D world so if it changes, so do the rules for everything else. What I did for my campaign to make things more original was switch the Sorcerer around a bit so that it uses the Spell Point system and simply not allow psionics in my campaign... I never liked them anyway. Well anyway, good luck with your efforts in magic and sorry I couldn't be more helpful. Happy Gaming!
elven warriorXX 03-08-06, 10:56 AM	Thanks for your comments. Indeed it will take a lot of work but WOTC does it so I want to try too. The average of point a spell caster gets at 20th level is 111. This is just to boost spells. Maybe I should make the Dice 1d8 instead of 1d10. There is no cost, for casting the spell. Spellcasters use Spell slots like normal but must uses these 'Boost points' to power them up. So lets say a 10th level Sorcerer is gonna cast Fireball, it normally does 5d6 but he wants to cast the most powerful Fireball he can by using his Energy, so he spends 5 points to raise it to 10d6. I may make it that it costs Its level of the spell in 'Boost points' to cast it. With this system a 20th level Wizard can not cast more then 4 9th level spells because he prepares spells. This system will only be for Arcane casters, Divine casters will gain 4 spells that they can put on any level of spell when they gain a new spell level. They can cast these spells as a Sorcerer.
moth 04-26-06, 03:37 AM	I did something similar as well. I took the spell points from UA with the fatigue variant which is very similar to what you are doing and added in that you gain sp in a similar fashion to hp. You have the ability to burn con after you are out of sp. I have only run into one problem that is very balanced by fatiguing the casters and that is the ability to pull off powerful spells. I make the sp cost of spells equal half the dc rounded up (Note: my spells are cast using skills so that may make the difference, and yes spell casters get more skill points for this reason). My spells are built on the spot using Monte Cooks Chaos Magic tables. This allows for extreme flexibility and the possibility of power spells at lower levels, but if a caster spends their entire sp on big spells they quickly run out and become too tired to do much of anything really quickly. This makes my players use them on spells more akin to their level and save the big spells for when they would really be needed. It also makes spell casters scene stealers some times, but then again they are spell casters they should be able to steal the scene sometimes with their magic. Just like a fighter can steal the scene by swathing through a crowd of enemies with his big massive sword. These are possible but don't always happen. It also changes what class levels mean power wise and in my setting/rules system it makes players more powerful than your average D20 characters at the same level. I found this out by pitting two 3rd level characters against a CR 5 monster, under played it a little and they creamed it in about 2 or 3 rounds. One of the characters was a fighter type class (I have custom classes to work with a completely changed magic system) and the other was a fighter/mage. My ADD has gotten the best of me on this post and I have started rambling and gone off topic a little (maybe?). I guess the purpose of my rambling was to show some of the things I have run into using a similar system. My system uses an additional ability called magic that every gets. The sp gained is done like so: (Magic mod) d4+ (con mod) you get max at first and then roll at each additional level. The sp is used to fuel all spells and could be used to fuel item as well. You gain sp back just like you gain hp. You could use something similar to keep the 'Boost points' from being a high number. What I see happening, and your examples show it clearly, that you can quickly have really powerful spells. A problem I have with my system as already stated. By keeping the 'boost points' low and/or instituting the fatigue variant rule for them from UA then this would evenly balance it out without making it useless. You could keep the dice small say a d4 but you gain these boost points at each arcane caster lvl like hit points. Perhaps 1d4+ (int mod) each level. With the fatigue points and a maxed out int, sure a mage could pull off a hefty magic missile or nigh impenetrable mage armor, but he would be exhausted afterwards and it would take a few days to get back up to max 'boost points' again. Something a spell caster would not want to do unless it was absolutely necessary. For example say he has an int of 18 and we give him a max for 'boost points'. At 8 (1st level) he would be fatigued after spending 4 of these and exhausted after spending two more. The minuses of these conditions could also apply to casting as a form of a distraction on their mind perhaps (in my system it is applied to casting since casting is skill based and is another deterrent from casting uber spells at low levels). Just my thoughts. Ignore those that say it's not worth creating your own magic system. If done right it will bring you a lot of satisfaction and could even make for some really happy players. I know my players love the magic system, but I have run into a few after describing it that said no way would I want to mess with it.
Millennium 04-26-06, 01:02 PM	Have you considered combining the Spellpoints and Vitality/Wounds sections of Unearthed Arcana? Under such a system, a spell might drain Vitality (though never Wounds) instead of a separate pool of spell points. Mind you, it's still video-game magic, with all the problems that entails, But it sounds as though it should give you more or less the desired effect.