Another Variant AC Idea [Archive] - Wizards Community

Another Variant AC Idea [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
roll8dn
11-06-06, 10:26 PM So, I've been tinkering with the Armor as DR and Class Defense Bonus variant rules. The issues with them, as has been discussed on these boards for quite a while, are numerous. My main focus with these rules is twofold: one, I want to keep game balance somewhat in line with the current rules; two, I want to make things a little more realistic in combat without introducing too many complex rules.

My solution to problem two is easier than the solution to problem one. The Armor as DR and Defense Bonus options make things easy to adjucate within the current rules, and (in my opinion) are more realistic than the flat AC bonus currently offered by armor.

The solution to problem one is a little more complicated. The number crunching for this will come later, but it boils down to making sure that the average damage taken by a PC remains relatively consistent with the normal rules set out in 3.5 edition.

The manner in which the interaction of the two rules sets occurs (or doesn't) under the variants put forth in Unearthed Arcana irks me somewhat. Therefore, I intend to allow them to stack (but only in a very specific way).

To avoid the defense bonus becoming a better option for avoiding damage than armor, the defense bonus will be tied to the character's BAB. It is one-half the character's BAB (rounded down); BAB represents the character's skill at hitting another based upon experience. Why not, then, should it contribute to one's ability to avoid blows based upon experience? While this throw off the game balance of AC at first glance (as some light and medium armor only classes now gain a larger AC bonus), it does not throw off the total damage taken by as much.

The way that armor as DR and defense bonus interact is that they stack. However, the maximum defense bonus that one can apply to one's AC is capped at the maximum dexterity bonus rating of one's armor. This is in addition to the normal dexterity bonus (if any) that a character possesses.

Let's take a look at Frank the human Fighter. Frank has a Dexterity of 14, and normal wealth for a PC of his level. His main opponent is Bob the half-orc Barbarian. Bob has a starting Strength of 17 and increases it at 4th and 16th levels. For a somewhat accurate look at the mechanics (without completely boring everyone who looks at this thread to tears), we'll look at Frank and Bob at 1st, 5th, and 10th levels. Also, we're going to ignore when Bob is in a rage, as it doesn't throw off the numbers by a significant amount. In addition, I am ignoring critical hits (mostly because I am lazy and don't want to go into that much math when it is this late at night).

Frank and Bob at 1st level:

Frank has sunk part of his gold into scale mail. Therefore, with the normal rules in effect, he has an AC of 16 (10 +4 [armor] + 2 [Dex]). Bob has a greataxe (the better to take advantage of his great Strength score) and has taken Weapon Focus in it. So, Bob has a +5 to hit or a 45% chance to hit Frank. This translates to a 45% chance of dealing his average damage per hit of 10.5 to Frank. Which means that his average damage per swing (when taking into account the 55% of them that are misses) is 4.725.

With the defense bonus and armor as DR rules in effect, Frank's AC drops to 14 (10 + 2 [armor] +2 [Dex] + 0 [1/2 BAB]). However, he now ignores 2 damage per hit (+4 to AC / 2). Therefore, Bob now has a 55% chance to hit. However, since his average damage drops to 8.5 per successful hit, Bob now has an average damage output of 4.675.

This is slightly lower, but hit point totals are so low at first level that combats are really dependant upon one or two good rolls rather than any difference in the average.

Frank and Bob at 5th level:

Frank now has a little more cash and has invested in some magical armor. He has +2 chainmail, because it allows him to use his entire Dex bonus. Under the standard rules, Frank would have an AC of 19 (10 + 5 [armor] + 2 [enhancement] + 2 [Dexterity]). Since Bob has upgraded as well, he now has a masterwork greataxe. Bob also now has a better Strength score, so he has a higher damage output. Bob's chance to hit Frank has improved to 60%. Bob's average damage per hit has also improved, coming up to 12.5 per hit. This gives Bob an average damage per swing of 7.5.

Under the variant rules, Bob has an AC of 19 as well (10 + 3 [armor] + 2 [enhancement] + 2 [Dexterity] + 2 [defense bonus]). He still ignores 2 damage per hit, which lowers Bob's average damage per hit to 10.5. This means that Bob's average damage per swing drops to 6.3.

Frank and Bob at 10th level:

Frank has made a name for himself adventuring, and has managed to spend his plunder well. He now has an even better suit of armor, +4 chainmail. This gives him an AC of 21 (10 + 5 [armor] +4 [enhancement] +2 [Dexterity]). Bob has also upgraded his equipment, gaining a +1 greataxe. His greater BAB and equipment means that he now has a +16 to hit. This means that Bob has a 75% chance to hit Frank. Bob's average damage per hit has also gone up, to a whopping 11.5. This menas that his average damage per swing has gone up as well, to 8.625.

Under the variant rules, Frank's AC remains the same at 21 (10 +3 [armor] + 4 [enhancement] + 2 [Dexterity] + 2 [defense bonus], since his maximum defense bonus in chainmail is +2. This means that Bob's average chance to hit remains the same at 75%, but his average damage per hit has gone down to 9.5. This means that Bob's average damage per swing has also gone down, to 7.125.

Mind you, chainmail is the best option for Frank, for it allows him to keep the exact same AC with his damage taken per hit going down slightly. If one looks at the numbers, it only makes for a slight difference in damage per swing (median average of 0.916 damage in the three examples given). This is a small price to pay (in my humble opinion) to involve more realism in the game and allow for unarmored combatants to be somewhat more effective.

Thoughts? Opinions? General hate mail?
Thought
11-08-06, 02:58 PM Not a bad system, but in general I would remind you that there are two realities to consider. Reality of actions in how they relate to the laws of physics in the real world, and reality of actions in how they relate to time such actions take in the real world. You gain a little bonus to the first reality, but you also loose a little to the second. There are more calculations for every roll, which per round isn't very significant, but it will slow down the game a little over the long run. Direct comparisons of numbers are quickest (my 19 beat your 17), with simple addition next (my 19+1 beat your 17+2), subtraction being slower (Darn, my 19-5 lost to your 17-1), multiplication being bad (Lets see, my 19*3 compares how to your 17*4?), division is evil (nerts, what do I do with the remainder of 19/5 and what do you do with your remainder of 17/7?). Your system adds a little more work up front (determining AC), but that is nothing big. It does introduce DR universally and early, meaning that combat takes a little longer to resolve across the board.

Personally, I like you Base Defense Bonus (BDB) idea, it is the DR side that I dislike. You could always combine the base AC bonus of every moving thing (10) and BDB. Maybe every class starts with 10, maybe not (Wiz 9, Monk 11?) and progress those at a class specific rate (maybe 1/3 BAB or less?), with heavy armor imposing penalties on this to prevent fighters and the such from becoming impossible to hit.

Regardless, how will BDB be affected by Dex? That is, would a character keep their BDB even when surprised (such as in a sneak attack), since one can't use one's experience to avoid that which one is unaware of?
Xeviat-DM
11-08-06, 11:46 PM I'm growing to feel that Max Dex bonuses are a bad way of representing armor's restrictiveness. The problem with max Dex bonuses is that they are not restrictive to certain people. Someone with a 15 dex puts on full plate and finds it restrictive, yet someone with a 10 dex doesn't find it restrictive at all? I don't buy that (I've worn what classifies as a chainshirt, max dex +4, and I found it restrictive; and there's no way I have anything higher than a 13 Dex).

What I'm saying is I think that armors should apply a flat defense bonus reduction, reducing your class+Dex based AC (and I think defense bonus should follow a similar progression as saves). But I also think that armor should apply DR and AC, as plate armor and leather armor can deflect attacks as much as they absorb impacts (loose armors, like chain, do more absorbtion than deflection, but they still keep blades out).
Pellanor
11-09-06, 01:36 PM If you use this variant, expect everybody and their dog to buy mithral armour. It's a safe bet that the extra +2 max dex will boost a character's AC by 2.

Also, I have a feeling that characters will end up wearing lighter and lighter armour.

20th level character with 20 dex and full BAB (aka 20 BAB, 10 BDB).
+5 suit of armour, no other sourcer of armour (for simplicity)
Fullplate: DR 4/-, AC 21 (9[armour] + 1[dex] + 1[bdb])
Mithral FP: DR 4/-, AC 25 (9[armour] + 3[dex] + 3[bdb])
Breast Plate: DR 2/-, AC 24 (8[armour] + 3[dex] + 3[bdb])
Mithral BP: DR 2/-, AC 28 (8[armour] + 5[dex] + 5[bdb])
Chain Shirt: DR 2/-, AC 25 (7[armour] + 4[dex] + 4[bdb])
Mithral CS: DR 2/-, AC 28 (7[armour] + 5[dex] + 6[bdb])
Padded Armour: DR 0/-, AC 29 (6[armour] + 5[dex] + 8[bdb])
Bracers of Armour(+5): DR 0/-, AC 30 (5[armour] + 5[dex] + 10[bdb])

Generally it's safe to assume that 2 DR is worth 1 AC. This puts the Bracers of Armour as the top choice at high levels.

20th level character with 10 dex(!?!) and full BAB (aka 20 BAB, 10 BDB).
+5 suit of armour, no other sourcer of armour (for simplicity)
Fullplate: DR 4/-, AC 20 (9[armour] + 1[bdb])
Mithral FP: DR 4/-, AC 22 (9[armour] + 3[bdb])
Breast Plate: DR 2/-, AC 21 (8[armour] + 3[bdb])
Mithral BP: DR 2/-, AC 23 (8[armour] + 5[bdb])
Chain Shirt: DR 2/-, AC 21 (7[armour] + 4[bdb])
Mithral CS: DR 2/-, AC 23 (7[armour] + 6[bdb])
Padded Armour: DR 0/-, AC 24 (6[armour] + 8[bdb])
Bracers of Armour(+5): DR 0/-, AC 25 (5[armour] + 10[bdb])

Even with no Dex Bonus, a high level character is still better off without armour than with.

Mind you, chainmail is the best option for FrankActually, it isn't.
Mithral BP would cost 2,050gp less, and give him +4 to AC, while keeping the same DR.
Without the Variant, +3 Fullplate would be a better bet. AC would go up by 1 (+3 base armor, -1 dex, -1 enchantment) and would cost less too. +2 Mithral Fullplate would be even better, as it would be even cheaper than the +3, and would have the same overall AC, but be lighter, and have a higher touch AC.
Without special materials a +4 Studded Leather Shirt would be the best under the variant rules. It would cost a few gp less, and would give +2 AC for -1 DR, but would be lighter, allowing for better mobility too.

Your variant really favours lighter armour, as well as anything that can increase Max Dex, since you can basically double dip for AC there.

Anyways, that's my $0.02.
Gorteck
11-09-06, 02:26 PM The thing is MY Ac at higher levels (Say 10) is useoly much higher then ur bobs and franks thing ... but dosnt mithril allrdy provide a +2 dex bonus? or are u talking about a extra boost on that mithril?
Pellanor
11-09-06, 07:05 PM Mithral does give a +2 Max dex, this is true, but since BDB is also limited by Max dex, that +2 may actually give you +4 to AC.
roll8dn
11-09-06, 07:35 PM Thought:
Yes, I had intended the defense bonus to be tied to awareness. The defense bonus is a dodge bonus; therefore, anything that causes a character to lose his/her Dexterity bonus causes him/her to lose the defense bonus as well.

Xeviat-DM:
I agree with you that maximum Dexterity bonuses (boni?) are rather unrealistic. I, however, have no better idea on how to balance the high-Dexterity types with those who just wish to "tank" over your suggestion.

Any thoughts on what the exact reduction values by armor type should be?

Pellanor:
Yes, you are correct about the breastplate being his best option (it was late for me when I crunched the numbers, sorry). Also, you are completely correct about the bracers being his best option to avoid damage. However, the setting in which I intend to use these rules is a rare magic one. Therefore, I had not taken into account the bracers' effect upon the rules I was looking at.

You're correct in your assessment; I need to go back to the drawing board and reassess my rules changes.

Any thoughts on how to do this better?
Xeviat-DM
11-10-06, 05:25 PM I've been thinking that a simple -0 Dex for light, -1 Dex for medium, and -2 Dex for heavy might be on the right path. Then medium armor's can provide 2/- DR, and heavy can provide 4/- DR, in addition to their AC.

But again, that's just initial ideas.
Tequila_Sunrise
11-10-06, 09:32 PM What about tying max Dex to a character's Str? For example, plate mail has a max dex of a character's str bonus -4.
theotherdraxen
11-12-06, 02:15 PM Thought:
Yes, I had intended the defense bonus to be tied to awareness. The defense bonus is a dodge bonus; therefore, anything that causes a character to lose his/her Dexterity bonus causes him/her to lose the defense bonus as well.
Really? I think it was your system that I stole for my campaign, but I decided to let my players retain the bonus. BDB is one of those arbitrary things (like HP) that can be justified in a number of ways. For a fighter, it might be your inheirint (sp?) danger sense. For a paladin, it might be divine protection. For a wizard, it might be that you permanently exude a protective aura.

Xeviat-DM:
I agree with you that maximum Dexterity bonuses (boni?) are rather unrealistic
You were right about the word bonuses. Boni is not a word.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
roll8dn 11-06-06, 10:26 PM	So, I've been tinkering with the Armor as DR and Class Defense Bonus variant rules. The issues with them, as has been discussed on these boards for quite a while, are numerous. My main focus with these rules is twofold: one, I want to keep game balance somewhat in line with the current rules; two, I want to make things a little more realistic in combat without introducing too many complex rules. My solution to problem two is easier than the solution to problem one. The Armor as DR and Defense Bonus options make things easy to adjucate within the current rules, and (in my opinion) are more realistic than the flat AC bonus currently offered by armor. The solution to problem one is a little more complicated. The number crunching for this will come later, but it boils down to making sure that the average damage taken by a PC remains relatively consistent with the normal rules set out in 3.5 edition. The manner in which the interaction of the two rules sets occurs (or doesn't) under the variants put forth in Unearthed Arcana irks me somewhat. Therefore, I intend to allow them to stack (but only in a very specific way). To avoid the defense bonus becoming a better option for avoiding damage than armor, the defense bonus will be tied to the character's BAB. It is one-half the character's BAB (rounded down); BAB represents the character's skill at hitting another based upon experience. Why not, then, should it contribute to one's ability to avoid blows based upon experience? While this throw off the game balance of AC at first glance (as some light and medium armor only classes now gain a larger AC bonus), it does not throw off the total damage taken by as much. The way that armor as DR and defense bonus interact is that they stack. However, the maximum defense bonus that one can apply to one's AC is capped at the maximum dexterity bonus rating of one's armor. This is in addition to the normal dexterity bonus (if any) that a character possesses. Let's take a look at Frank the human Fighter. Frank has a Dexterity of 14, and normal wealth for a PC of his level. His main opponent is Bob the half-orc Barbarian. Bob has a starting Strength of 17 and increases it at 4th and 16th levels. For a somewhat accurate look at the mechanics (without completely boring everyone who looks at this thread to tears), we'll look at Frank and Bob at 1st, 5th, and 10th levels. Also, we're going to ignore when Bob is in a rage, as it doesn't throw off the numbers by a significant amount. In addition, I am ignoring critical hits (mostly because I am lazy and don't want to go into that much math when it is this late at night). Frank and Bob at 1st level: Frank has sunk part of his gold into scale mail. Therefore, with the normal rules in effect, he has an AC of 16 (10 +4 [armor] + 2 [Dex]). Bob has a greataxe (the better to take advantage of his great Strength score) and has taken Weapon Focus in it. So, Bob has a +5 to hit or a 45% chance to hit Frank. This translates to a 45% chance of dealing his average damage per hit of 10.5 to Frank. Which means that his average damage per swing (when taking into account the 55% of them that are misses) is 4.725. With the defense bonus and armor as DR rules in effect, Frank's AC drops to 14 (10 + 2 [armor] +2 [Dex] + 0 [1/2 BAB]). However, he now ignores 2 damage per hit (+4 to AC / 2). Therefore, Bob now has a 55% chance to hit. However, since his average damage drops to 8.5 per successful hit, Bob now has an average damage output of 4.675. This is slightly lower, but hit point totals are so low at first level that combats are really dependant upon one or two good rolls rather than any difference in the average. Frank and Bob at 5th level: Frank now has a little more cash and has invested in some magical armor. He has +2 chainmail, because it allows him to use his entire Dex bonus. Under the standard rules, Frank would have an AC of 19 (10 + 5 [armor] + 2 [enhancement] + 2 [Dexterity]). Since Bob has upgraded as well, he now has a masterwork greataxe. Bob also now has a better Strength score, so he has a higher damage output. Bob's chance to hit Frank has improved to 60%. Bob's average damage per hit has also improved, coming up to 12.5 per hit. This gives Bob an average damage per swing of 7.5. Under the variant rules, Bob has an AC of 19 as well (10 + 3 [armor] + 2 [enhancement] + 2 [Dexterity] + 2 [defense bonus]). He still ignores 2 damage per hit, which lowers Bob's average damage per hit to 10.5. This means that Bob's average damage per swing drops to 6.3. Frank and Bob at 10th level: Frank has made a name for himself adventuring, and has managed to spend his plunder well. He now has an even better suit of armor, +4 chainmail. This gives him an AC of 21 (10 + 5 [armor] +4 [enhancement] +2 [Dexterity]). Bob has also upgraded his equipment, gaining a +1 greataxe. His greater BAB and equipment means that he now has a +16 to hit. This means that Bob has a 75% chance to hit Frank. Bob's average damage per hit has also gone up, to a whopping 11.5. This menas that his average damage per swing has gone up as well, to 8.625. Under the variant rules, Frank's AC remains the same at 21 (10 +3 [armor] + 4 [enhancement] + 2 [Dexterity] + 2 [defense bonus], since his maximum defense bonus in chainmail is +2. This means that Bob's average chance to hit remains the same at 75%, but his average damage per hit has gone down to 9.5. This means that Bob's average damage per swing has also gone down, to 7.125. Mind you, chainmail is the best option for Frank, for it allows him to keep the exact same AC with his damage taken per hit going down slightly. If one looks at the numbers, it only makes for a slight difference in damage per swing (median average of 0.916 damage in the three examples given). This is a small price to pay (in my humble opinion) to involve more realism in the game and allow for unarmored combatants to be somewhat more effective. Thoughts? Opinions? General hate mail?
Thought 11-08-06, 02:58 PM	Not a bad system, but in general I would remind you that there are two realities to consider. Reality of actions in how they relate to the laws of physics in the real world, and reality of actions in how they relate to time such actions take in the real world. You gain a little bonus to the first reality, but you also loose a little to the second. There are more calculations for every roll, which per round isn't very significant, but it will slow down the game a little over the long run. Direct comparisons of numbers are quickest (my 19 beat your 17), with simple addition next (my 19+1 beat your 17+2), subtraction being slower (Darn, my 19-5 lost to your 17-1), multiplication being bad (Lets see, my 193 compares how to your 174?), division is evil (nerts, what do I do with the remainder of 19/5 and what do you do with your remainder of 17/7?). Your system adds a little more work up front (determining AC), but that is nothing big. It does introduce DR universally and early, meaning that combat takes a little longer to resolve across the board. Personally, I like you Base Defense Bonus (BDB) idea, it is the DR side that I dislike. You could always combine the base AC bonus of every moving thing (10) and BDB. Maybe every class starts with 10, maybe not (Wiz 9, Monk 11?) and progress those at a class specific rate (maybe 1/3 BAB or less?), with heavy armor imposing penalties on this to prevent fighters and the such from becoming impossible to hit. Regardless, how will BDB be affected by Dex? That is, would a character keep their BDB even when surprised (such as in a sneak attack), since one can't use one's experience to avoid that which one is unaware of?
Xeviat-DM 11-08-06, 11:46 PM	I'm growing to feel that Max Dex bonuses are a bad way of representing armor's restrictiveness. The problem with max Dex bonuses is that they are not restrictive to certain people. Someone with a 15 dex puts on full plate and finds it restrictive, yet someone with a 10 dex doesn't find it restrictive at all? I don't buy that (I've worn what classifies as a chainshirt, max dex +4, and I found it restrictive; and there's no way I have anything higher than a 13 Dex). What I'm saying is I think that armors should apply a flat defense bonus reduction, reducing your class+Dex based AC (and I think defense bonus should follow a similar progression as saves). But I also think that armor should apply DR and AC, as plate armor and leather armor can deflect attacks as much as they absorb impacts (loose armors, like chain, do more absorbtion than deflection, but they still keep blades out).
Pellanor 11-09-06, 01:36 PM	If you use this variant, expect everybody and their dog to buy mithral armour. It's a safe bet that the extra +2 max dex will boost a character's AC by 2. Also, I have a feeling that characters will end up wearing lighter and lighter armour. 20th level character with 20 dex and full BAB (aka 20 BAB, 10 BDB). +5 suit of armour, no other sourcer of armour (for simplicity) Fullplate: DR 4/-, AC 21 (9[armour] + 1[dex] + 1[bdb]) Mithral FP: DR 4/-, AC 25 (9[armour] + 3[dex] + 3[bdb]) Breast Plate: DR 2/-, AC 24 (8[armour] + 3[dex] + 3[bdb]) Mithral BP: DR 2/-, AC 28 (8[armour] + 5[dex] + 5[bdb]) Chain Shirt: DR 2/-, AC 25 (7[armour] + 4[dex] + 4[bdb]) Mithral CS: DR 2/-, AC 28 (7[armour] + 5[dex] + 6[bdb]) Padded Armour: DR 0/-, AC 29 (6[armour] + 5[dex] + 8[bdb]) Bracers of Armour(+5): DR 0/-, AC 30 (5[armour] + 5[dex] + 10[bdb]) Generally it's safe to assume that 2 DR is worth 1 AC. This puts the Bracers of Armour as the top choice at high levels. 20th level character with 10 dex(!?!) and full BAB (aka 20 BAB, 10 BDB). +5 suit of armour, no other sourcer of armour (for simplicity) Fullplate: DR 4/-, AC 20 (9[armour] + 1[bdb]) Mithral FP: DR 4/-, AC 22 (9[armour] + 3[bdb]) Breast Plate: DR 2/-, AC 21 (8[armour] + 3[bdb]) Mithral BP: DR 2/-, AC 23 (8[armour] + 5[bdb]) Chain Shirt: DR 2/-, AC 21 (7[armour] + 4[bdb]) Mithral CS: DR 2/-, AC 23 (7[armour] + 6[bdb]) Padded Armour: DR 0/-, AC 24 (6[armour] + 8[bdb]) Bracers of Armour(+5): DR 0/-, AC 25 (5[armour] + 10[bdb]) Even with no Dex Bonus, a high level character is still better off without armour than with. Mind you, chainmail is the best option for FrankActually, it isn't. Mithral BP would cost 2,050gp less, and give him +4 to AC, while keeping the same DR. Without the Variant, +3 Fullplate would be a better bet. AC would go up by 1 (+3 base armor, -1 dex, -1 enchantment) and would cost less too. +2 Mithral Fullplate would be even better, as it would be even cheaper than the +3, and would have the same overall AC, but be lighter, and have a higher touch AC. Without special materials a +4 Studded Leather Shirt would be the best under the variant rules. It would cost a few gp less, and would give +2 AC for -1 DR, but would be lighter, allowing for better mobility too. Your variant really favours lighter armour, as well as anything that can increase Max Dex, since you can basically double dip for AC there. Anyways, that's my $0.02.
Gorteck 11-09-06, 02:26 PM	The thing is MY Ac at higher levels (Say 10) is useoly much higher then ur bobs and franks thing ... but dosnt mithril allrdy provide a +2 dex bonus? or are u talking about a extra boost on that mithril?
Pellanor 11-09-06, 07:05 PM	Mithral does give a +2 Max dex, this is true, but since BDB is also limited by Max dex, that +2 may actually give you +4 to AC.
roll8dn 11-09-06, 07:35 PM	Thought: Yes, I had intended the defense bonus to be tied to awareness. The defense bonus is a dodge bonus; therefore, anything that causes a character to lose his/her Dexterity bonus causes him/her to lose the defense bonus as well. Xeviat-DM: I agree with you that maximum Dexterity bonuses (boni?) are rather unrealistic. I, however, have no better idea on how to balance the high-Dexterity types with those who just wish to "tank" over your suggestion. Any thoughts on what the exact reduction values by armor type should be? Pellanor: Yes, you are correct about the breastplate being his best option (it was late for me when I crunched the numbers, sorry). Also, you are completely correct about the bracers being his best option to avoid damage. However, the setting in which I intend to use these rules is a rare magic one. Therefore, I had not taken into account the bracers' effect upon the rules I was looking at. You're correct in your assessment; I need to go back to the drawing board and reassess my rules changes. Any thoughts on how to do this better?
Xeviat-DM 11-10-06, 05:25 PM	I've been thinking that a simple -0 Dex for light, -1 Dex for medium, and -2 Dex for heavy might be on the right path. Then medium armor's can provide 2/- DR, and heavy can provide 4/- DR, in addition to their AC. But again, that's just initial ideas.
Tequila_Sunrise 11-10-06, 09:32 PM	What about tying max Dex to a character's Str? For example, plate mail has a max dex of a character's str bonus -4.
theotherdraxen 11-12-06, 02:15 PM	Thought: Yes, I had intended the defense bonus to be tied to awareness. The defense bonus is a dodge bonus; therefore, anything that causes a character to lose his/her Dexterity bonus causes him/her to lose the defense bonus as well. Really? I think it was your system that I stole for my campaign, but I decided to let my players retain the bonus. BDB is one of those arbitrary things (like HP) that can be justified in a number of ways. For a fighter, it might be your inheirint (sp?) danger sense. For a paladin, it might be divine protection. For a wizard, it might be that you permanently exude a protective aura. Xeviat-DM: I agree with you that maximum Dexterity bonuses (boni?) are rather unrealistic You were right about the word bonuses. Boni is not a word.