Another WP/VP System... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Another WP/VP System... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
IronMouse
01-02-07, 02:35 PM Hi there ^^ it's my first post here. Hope my anglish isn't too crappy.

Okay, I really like the idea of the VP/WP system. However, I changed the standard mechanics a little. Basically, I want a system where PCs at level 1 don't die too easily but can't take tons of damage at higher levels without getting hampered, where fights are always dangerous to some point and physical injuries actually hurt, but not every easy fight should leave you crippled (unless you have bad luck). And finally an explanation why this or that NPC can't fight/travel/whatever because he's too injured while the PCs work just fine until they reach 0 HP...

That's what I did:
1. A first level character of small, medium and large size has WPs equal to his Con score, as usual. However, for every level or HD after you get 2 additional WPs, up to a maximum of 2xCon. The starting WPs for smaller or larger creatures are calculated accordingly (a huge creature gets 2xCon starting WPs and has a maximum of 4xCon, for example).
2. The character gets VPs according to his HD. However, the Con modificator is NOT added - you only get your basic HDs as VPs.
3. The feat Toughness adds 3 WPs, these bonus points can increase your WP total above your normal maximum. The feat Improved Toughness gives 1 VP per level/HD instead. Both feats can be taken multiple times, effects stack, other feats that usually increase your HP are not available.
4. As usually, damage is substracted from your VPs first, except on critical hits. Enchantments like Keen and feats like Improved Critical don't double the crit range, they increase it by +1 instead and they stack.
5. If you get hit by a spell or an ability that causes damage and that doesn't require an attack roll (damaging spells that require an attack roll can crit as normal) but calls for a saving throw, and you roll a natural 1 on that saving throw, roll the save again. If you fail the second time, too, the damage goes on your WPs, instead of your VPs.
6. Subdu...nonlethal damage that goes onto the VPs is treated as normal damage. However, if you take nonlethal damage on your WPs, it is treated just like in the default system (if your nonlethal damage exceeds your current WPs, you fall unconscious and so on).
7. Your WPs can go into the negatives. You die when your negative WPs reach your Con score. With 12 Con you die at -12 and so on. If you have less than 5 Con you only die at -5 though. To stabilize, you have to make a fortitude save with a DC of 10 + (your negative WPs). 16 at -6, for example.
8. As long as you have your full WP score, you are not considered physically injured (maybe harmless bruises or scratches, in the worst case), no matter how many VPs you lose. But if you lose even a single WP, you are injured - this is treated as fatigued, as usual. If you lose at least half of your WPs, you are also staggered (can only take a standard action or a move action each turn).
9. Natural healing as follows:
VPs are recovered each hour. 1 VP/level at normal activity, 2 VP/level while resting. With the feat Faster Healing you recover 1 additional VP/level.
WPs are recovered each day. 1 + Con mod (minimum 1) at normal activity with 8 hour rest, 2 + Con mod at 24 hour rest.
+1 (8 hours) or +2 (24 hours) with the feat faster healing.
When treated with the heal skill, you gain an additional +1 (8 hours) or +2 (24 hours) an a negative Con mod is ignored.
10. Everything else works as normal.

That's it. Hope I didn't forget something. What do you think?

Oh, I also planned to use the the Class Defense variant (SRD) and the Armor as DR rules from Iron Heroes, if that matters.
Neofish
01-03-07, 05:27 PM Looks good, I did the same thing with the Negative Con score, but you've added a few things I really like and will have to implement. Also, what's the difference from the UA armor as DR rules and the Iron Heros ones?
legophreak
01-04-07, 02:04 AM So far so good to me...

Although personally, i would probably switch the benefits of Toughness and Improved Toughness.

But that's just me.

I use Class Defense variant for my Asian themed world. Works out pretty well.

Is the Iron Heroes Armor as DR similar to the one in UA, or completely different?
IronMouse
01-04-07, 10:51 AM Glad you like it :)

Basically, armor in Iron Heroes doesn't give defence and grants damage reduction 1dX, where X is the original armor bonus. 1d4 for a chain shirt and so on.
I thought this nerfs the heavier armors a bit, so I increased the dice of the medum armors by one point and those from the heavy armors by two points. This means, a full plate grants 1d10 damage reduction.
Note: DR from Armor in IR is actually X/magic. But this only works because IR is extremely low magic, for mid to high magic campaigns you should make the DR X/-.

An enhancement bonus is added to the roll, not the die. So, the DR of a full plate +2 would be 1d10+2. I allow DR bonusses from natural armor (this table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm#naturalArmor) ) to stack, as well as X/- DR from class features (barbarian). Both are treated as an additional "enhancement" bonus, added after the roll.
Damage reduction from all other sources overlaps, as usual.

Talking about barbarians, allowing them to use the whirling frenzy variant instead of the normal rage would be a good idea. Under my system, they don't get much direct benefit from an increased Con score I fear. Or they just get temporary bonus VP.
Neofish
01-04-07, 02:09 PM The Way I handle natural is a little different. In my games, natural armor makes a monster tougher to kill and wound, not harder to hit. A monster gains 5 vitality points for every point of natural armor it should have had to its AC, in addition to this, a monster gains DR 1/- for every 3 points of natural armor is should of had. This means a bugbear from the MM entry would have 15 extra vitality points and a DR of 1/-, but it's AC is reduced by 3. It works out fiarly well in the end, it makes monsters easier to hit, but they can take more punishment before dying.

EDIT- You also forgot that under the Vp/Wp system, a barbarian gains an additional 4 wound points when they rage (due to the increase in their Con score)
IronMouse
01-06-07, 09:12 AM That's an interesting system, too, and makes more sense than the default one.
I'm thinking about using it, though some of my PS races have natural armor too. One is lizwardfolk based and gets +5 (+4 def and +1 DR right now). +25 VP *and* +1 DR at level 1 is a bit too much, I probably should replace that.
Neofish
01-06-07, 02:16 PM That's an interesting system, too, and makes more sense than the default one.
I'm thinking about using it, though some of my PS races have natural armor too. One is lizwardfolk based and gets +5 (+4 def and +1 DR right now). +25 VP *and* +1 DR at level 1 is a bit too much, I probably should replace that.

Well, if you feel its to much, drop it down to 3vp per natural armor, but remember, a lizard folk is an ECL 3 (2 natural HD and 1 level adjustement) correct? So, a first 1st leve lizardfolk is a 4th level character.
Also, they are just Vp's, not Wp, so a crit still retains its potency.
IronMouse
01-06-07, 03:20 PM The Iguan (that's how they're called) don't get the racial HD and +1 is standard for my PC races, so they fit in quite well ^^

Hmm, what about letting natural armor give you a rolled DR, just like my armor? Let's say:
1-10: Die of the according size.
11-20: 1d10 plus another die of the according size (natural armor 16 becomes 1d10+1d6 for example).
...and so on.
I would say it stacks with the armor die.

So you might be able to hurt even creatures with very high natural armor when they roll bad, and when they roll good they just shrug your blows off. And crits go right through, as normal.
I kinda like the thought, but what do you think, good idea or bad idea?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IronMouse 01-02-07, 02:35 PM	Hi there ^^ it's my first post here. Hope my anglish isn't too crappy. Okay, I really like the idea of the VP/WP system. However, I changed the standard mechanics a little. Basically, I want a system where PCs at level 1 don't die too easily but can't take tons of damage at higher levels without getting hampered, where fights are always dangerous to some point and physical injuries actually hurt, but not every easy fight should leave you crippled (unless you have bad luck). And finally an explanation why this or that NPC can't fight/travel/whatever because he's too injured while the PCs work just fine until they reach 0 HP... That's what I did: 1. A first level character of small, medium and large size has WPs equal to his Con score, as usual. However, for every level or HD after you get 2 additional WPs, up to a maximum of 2xCon. The starting WPs for smaller or larger creatures are calculated accordingly (a huge creature gets 2xCon starting WPs and has a maximum of 4xCon, for example). 2. The character gets VPs according to his HD. However, the Con modificator is NOT added - you only get your basic HDs as VPs. 3. The feat Toughness adds 3 WPs, these bonus points can increase your WP total above your normal maximum. The feat Improved Toughness gives 1 VP per level/HD instead. Both feats can be taken multiple times, effects stack, other feats that usually increase your HP are not available. 4. As usually, damage is substracted from your VPs first, except on critical hits. Enchantments like Keen and feats like Improved Critical don't double the crit range, they increase it by +1 instead and they stack. 5. If you get hit by a spell or an ability that causes damage and that doesn't require an attack roll (damaging spells that require an attack roll can crit as normal) but calls for a saving throw, and you roll a natural 1 on that saving throw, roll the save again. If you fail the second time, too, the damage goes on your WPs, instead of your VPs. 6. Subdu...nonlethal damage that goes onto the VPs is treated as normal damage. However, if you take nonlethal damage on your WPs, it is treated just like in the default system (if your nonlethal damage exceeds your current WPs, you fall unconscious and so on). 7. Your WPs can go into the negatives. You die when your negative WPs reach your Con score. With 12 Con you die at -12 and so on. If you have less than 5 Con you only die at -5 though. To stabilize, you have to make a fortitude save with a DC of 10 + (your negative WPs). 16 at -6, for example. 8. As long as you have your full WP score, you are not considered physically injured (maybe harmless bruises or scratches, in the worst case), no matter how many VPs you lose. But if you lose even a single WP, you are injured - this is treated as fatigued, as usual. If you lose at least half of your WPs, you are also staggered (can only take a standard action or a move action each turn). 9. Natural healing as follows: VPs are recovered each hour. 1 VP/level at normal activity, 2 VP/level while resting. With the feat Faster Healing you recover 1 additional VP/level. WPs are recovered each day. 1 + Con mod (minimum 1) at normal activity with 8 hour rest, 2 + Con mod at 24 hour rest. +1 (8 hours) or +2 (24 hours) with the feat faster healing. When treated with the heal skill, you gain an additional +1 (8 hours) or +2 (24 hours) an a negative Con mod is ignored. 10. Everything else works as normal. That's it. Hope I didn't forget something. What do you think? Oh, I also planned to use the the Class Defense variant (SRD) and the Armor as DR rules from Iron Heroes, if that matters.
Neofish 01-03-07, 05:27 PM	Looks good, I did the same thing with the Negative Con score, but you've added a few things I really like and will have to implement. Also, what's the difference from the UA armor as DR rules and the Iron Heros ones?
legophreak 01-04-07, 02:04 AM	So far so good to me... Although personally, i would probably switch the benefits of Toughness and Improved Toughness. But that's just me. I use Class Defense variant for my Asian themed world. Works out pretty well. Is the Iron Heroes Armor as DR similar to the one in UA, or completely different?
IronMouse 01-04-07, 10:51 AM	Glad you like it :) Basically, armor in Iron Heroes doesn't give defence and grants damage reduction 1dX, where X is the original armor bonus. 1d4 for a chain shirt and so on. I thought this nerfs the heavier armors a bit, so I increased the dice of the medum armors by one point and those from the heavy armors by two points. This means, a full plate grants 1d10 damage reduction. Note: DR from Armor in IR is actually X/magic. But this only works because IR is extremely low magic, for mid to high magic campaigns you should make the DR X/-. An enhancement bonus is added to the roll, not the die. So, the DR of a full plate +2 would be 1d10+2. I allow DR bonusses from natural armor (this table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm#naturalArmor) ) to stack, as well as X/- DR from class features (barbarian). Both are treated as an additional "enhancement" bonus, added after the roll. Damage reduction from all other sources overlaps, as usual. Talking about barbarians, allowing them to use the whirling frenzy variant instead of the normal rage would be a good idea. Under my system, they don't get much direct benefit from an increased Con score I fear. Or they just get temporary bonus VP.
Neofish 01-04-07, 02:09 PM	The Way I handle natural is a little different. In my games, natural armor makes a monster tougher to kill and wound, not harder to hit. A monster gains 5 vitality points for every point of natural armor it should have had to its AC, in addition to this, a monster gains DR 1/- for every 3 points of natural armor is should of had. This means a bugbear from the MM entry would have 15 extra vitality points and a DR of 1/-, but it's AC is reduced by 3. It works out fiarly well in the end, it makes monsters easier to hit, but they can take more punishment before dying. EDIT- You also forgot that under the Vp/Wp system, a barbarian gains an additional 4 wound points when they rage (due to the increase in their Con score)
IronMouse 01-06-07, 09:12 AM	That's an interesting system, too, and makes more sense than the default one. I'm thinking about using it, though some of my PS races have natural armor too. One is lizwardfolk based and gets +5 (+4 def and +1 DR right now). +25 VP and +1 DR at level 1 is a bit too much, I probably should replace that.
Neofish 01-06-07, 02:16 PM	That's an interesting system, too, and makes more sense than the default one. I'm thinking about using it, though some of my PS races have natural armor too. One is lizwardfolk based and gets +5 (+4 def and +1 DR right now). +25 VP and +1 DR at level 1 is a bit too much, I probably should replace that. Well, if you feel its to much, drop it down to 3vp per natural armor, but remember, a lizard folk is an ECL 3 (2 natural HD and 1 level adjustement) correct? So, a first 1st leve lizardfolk is a 4th level character. Also, they are just Vp's, not Wp, so a crit still retains its potency.
IronMouse 01-06-07, 03:20 PM	The Iguan (that's how they're called) don't get the racial HD and +1 is standard for my PC races, so they fit in quite well ^^ Hmm, what about letting natural armor give you a rolled DR, just like my armor? Let's say: 1-10: Die of the according size. 11-20: 1d10 plus another die of the according size (natural armor 16 becomes 1d10+1d6 for example). ...and so on. I would say it stacks with the armor die. So you might be able to hurt even creatures with very high natural armor when they roll bad, and when they roll good they just shrug your blows off. And crits go right through, as normal. I kinda like the thought, but what do you think, good idea or bad idea?