Anyone Used Wound & Vitality Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anyone Used Wound & Vitality Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mlasater
07-20-06, 12:59 AM Has anyone actually used the wound & vitality point system from UA? How did it work out? I ws considering it in a new campaign and wanted other peoples opinions.
allenchan
07-20-06, 02:21 AM Id recommend the WP/VP from Star Wars d20, or some balance of the two. Its slightly different, and has a lot more finality to it. The saves to not die in the UA version are far too easy. I have it so you have as many neg WP as you do positive WP, if you go lower then that you're dead. In the negs, a fort save to be disabled, or unconscious.

Some things to consider are that the multiplers of weapons turn into crit range, so keen and imp crit become much better. I make each add a static +1 to the crit range (but I also let them stack).

I also modified it so that precision based damage (IE, sneak attacks) will only apply 1 WP per extra die instead of full value. 1d6+2+6d6 WP is overkill, imo, while 1d6+8 is still scary

Also, I ruled that CdG's against a person in negative WP is an auto death, regardless.

Cheers :)
mlasater
07-24-06, 08:24 PM Unfortunately, I don't own Star Wars d20. The comment about sneak attack looks like it has some validity.
Fiery Avenger
07-24-06, 08:33 PM I thoroughly enjoy VP/WP and use it quite a lot - but it really does have to fit the flavor of a game. For me, that system works in a setting like Star Wars or d20 Modern - where characters are dodging bullets and rolling with blows left and right - in a setting like say, Forgotten Realms - heavy armor is more likely to be used, and as such seems to me to fit a bit more with the HP system.

Systematically, it is a balanced and fun - and I use it whenever the opportunity is appropriate and afforded.
Phoenix Knight
07-24-06, 09:22 PM When we first started using them I liked them a lot. But as levels increased, I found they could really screw up a carefully planned encounter if the enemies got a lucky crit. Actually, it didn't really bother me when the players got lucky kills, but I really hate to see it happen to them.

Of course, using it with a group with no healing magic didn't help. Once the wounds start, it's all downhill. I think it may be an ideal system for certain settings (as Fiery Avenger says), but be careful if you hope for a long term game that should reach mid to high levels, unless you don't mind people losing characters to bad luck.
Valoy_Muniz
07-25-06, 10:46 AM I plain to use it in my next game (a starwars was game with D&D casters,monsters and spells) 2 changes I am making to the wp is for evey 4 class levels you have in a non-barbarian class you add 1 wp (with skill you can toughen up alittle) Barbaians though add the class level to WP (This will balance the fact they can not use any tech skills.)
EzraTwitch
07-29-06, 03:30 PM I used it for awhile but found out that it greatly increased the chances of TPK, I made my own spin off which you might try.

Characters have a shock score which is equal to their level+their Con, if a character takes an amount of damage from a single attack that is equal to or exceeds their shock value they must make a For Save DC 20 or be knocked prone and stunned for 1d4 rounds, if they take damage from a single attack that does damage that exeeds twice their schock value (Con+Levelx2) roll a 10 sided dice and they are reduced to that many negative hit points (10=0hp). A succesful For Save DC 20 reduces this effect to that of normal "shock"
I rember i changed the mechanics of Endurance and Die-Hard to effect the shock value, but I can remember exact mechanics.
TarlSS
07-29-06, 04:33 PM Yes, it works quite well. However you need to implement a sort of 'armor =DR vs. Wounds" thing. It essentially means daggers can whittle away at your fatigue, but never penetrate unless delivered with high strength/sneak attack.

This is IN ADDITION to armor granting normal AC.

Essentially, Your Armor bonus/2 you have gives you DR against wound damage.
Natural Armor/5 also grants DR vs Wounds. They do not stack.

On a critical, Sneak attacks deal 1 point of extra wound damage per 1d6.

This pretty much means critical hits have the potential to kill outright, but generally only when delivered with a giant hackaxe or a master thief. The thing about critical hits is that they pretty much have a guaranteed chance of fatiguing you unless you are wearing plate, and only then that only prevents up to 4 wound damage.
DragonBringerX
07-30-06, 05:29 PM dose anyone think that this type of system might work well in a survivol horror game??? :confused:
batmanjr
07-30-06, 09:48 PM Without doing any house ruling I have ran games with both VP/WP and straight up HP as per the DnD books.

VP/WP is nice, and makes things more realistic(ie WAY more deadly)

Straight up HP is great because you have a better idea as to when your character is in trouble health wise.

But personally I like the HP method way better. Because you don't have to worry about being taken out in one hit from something that you should easily mop the floor with.

My suggestion would be to decide what type of game your players want. Do they want more realistic feel or standard play?

I think it would work great as is for a survival horror game. It makes total sense though. You see the heroes get chewed up, they rest for a bit and they act like nothing's happened. Yeah, they have a lot of VP back, but their WP are still low.
herceg
07-31-06, 08:24 AM I've tried it several times, and it had two serious weaknesses. First, magic.

Ok, so maybe that fireball caused only vitality loss (even when it had you in the area); but how do you explain that magic missile deals only vitality? If not, it just became spell number 1. again :) 5d4+5 wound damage... just think about it.

Ok, how about disintegrate? When the ray hits you... how do you explain it's only vitality? And finger of death? Phantasmal Killer? etc. :)

Magic with VP/WP is either illogical or much more deadly...

My other problem was lazyness... All those monsters needed redo, because I had to check Con, size, etc. to calculate VP/WP.

Think about dragons, with 3-400 Vp AND 2-300 WP. Nice? And it's only a some Old one :)
Vintar
08-02-06, 11:48 AM You should probably lower the crit of weapons - making scimitars etc. just 19-20. Perhaps making present 19-20 weapons have a +2 bonus to confirm crit. As well, have Improved Crit only add 1 to crit as opposed to doubling - would be too powerful. The advantage is that massed low level troopers can actually be deadly to players at mid-hgih levels - even a couple if they get really lucky.
Xeviat-DM
08-02-06, 03:34 PM I've been using it in a game that has reached 5th level, and so far I love it. I use a combination of WP/VP and the alternate death and dying rules from UA. I don't like Star Wars's stun on wound damage at all; the fatigue is enough of a penalty.

Currently I am looking at revising the armor system to make it a little more realistic; the DR vs. Wound damage might be the best method of that. I'm going to start a thread on it.
Jerks
08-03-06, 03:47 AM I love vitality and wounds, but I have tweaked it a bit from it's presentation in the UA.

1) I changed the "dying" Fort save DC. Instead of a flat number, I changed the Fort save DC to 10 +2/10 pts of damage. Then if/once a character starts making stabilization rolls, the DC starts a 1 + the previous DC.

2) Armor provides DR/-- that is only effective versus wound damage. Half of an armor's base AC value is a good rule of thumb. Natural armor can also provide DR/--(wounds only), on a 1 pt/5 pts of natural armor ratio, but I don't apply this universally. Immune to crit creatures that have wounds only (golems, undead, etc.) don't need any additional balancing.

One option I've been considering is to steal the armor values from Iron Heroes. This is a variable die equal the armor's normal AC value. For example, an armor with a +4 AC bonus would have DR 1d4/--.

I've also been thinking of expanding this option to scale with size. Small-medium-large values would stay to same [primarly so as not to penalize the gnomes and halflings] but moving further up or down the size would scale the armor DR as if on the weapon chart. Hmm, any thoughts on that one?

3) Wouding criticals (bypassing vitality) only occur when the threat roll was a natural 20. All other critcals damage vitality as under the hit point system. For example, a rapier threatens on 18-20 for x2 damage. On a roll of 18 or 19, with a confirmation roll, the player would do double vitality damage. On a roll of a 20, with a confirmation roll, the player would do 1x wound damage.

4) Wounding weapons do wound damage now instead of doing Con damage. Slightly less deadly, so I'm thinking of reducing the equivalent enhancement bonus. [No one has one yet in the game, so there's been no rush].

5) Damaging spells can crit. Those with an attack roll follow rule 3. Spells with a save crit on a natural 1. To confirm, the player rolls the save again. A failure confirms the crit. In this case, the character takes 1 wound point per die of damage of the spell in addition the the normal effects of the spell.

I think that's it. Good gaming.
Vintar
08-03-06, 11:30 AM Hey Jerks - I like your system - just have a few suggestions. If you do use the Iron Heroes system for armor DR (what I was referrring to before) then instead of AC bonus - I would reccomend have DR for vitality - tis' what I'm planning. So - full plate would be d8 for wound damage - and d4 for vitality damage.

Actually - I wouldn't have larger creatures get better DR for balance issues - unless you increase the size bonuses/penalty for AC and/or mkae it so that much smaller creatures can find chinks in the armor to lower/cancel the DR. I mean - in armor that big - there are going to be gaps. I'm not sure how one would do that exactly so... good luck. However - I can definetly see why a grigs shouldn't be able to get full DR. I mean - two grigs literally couldn't hurt each other - and how much would their armor really protect against a half-orc's warhammer?
Goblinchaser
08-03-06, 12:15 PM I perefer the WP/VP system

Some adjustments I had to make was already mentioned

Criticals, I gave the character the choice to affect Vitality with the multiplier, or wounds with normal damage, reducing extra damage such as Sneak attacks to 1 per die.

When Wounds reached 0 the character was disabled, at below 0 (although there was no negatives) the character had to make fort saves equal to 5 + amount below 0 + 1 for each previous save, each round to avoid dying. If they Made the save, they did not die but are considered dying, and would have to save the next round.

Since I also use action points and the character can spend a AP to Stabilize, I do not contend with many deaths PC, unless they persish from Massive damage.

Lastly, I like the system in High magic or low magic...

Spells such as fireball normally do Vitality damage, but should they Critically fail a save, roll a natural 1, then fail a second roll, it applies to wounds. This keeps those spells on par with spells that allow attack rolls such as Melfs acid arrow, and the orb spells, since they are able to crit.

Lastly since Vitality naturally Heals @ 1 x Character Level per hour of Light activity, it eliminated the need to keep track of non-lethal Damage, and allowed the party to rest for an hour or two before continuing on. The PC's Loved this part as it gave them a sembelance of regeneration. As well it freed up the clerics spells for combat, and utilitarian type spells, which was good as the only mage in the group was a Warmage...

Also with the effect of being fatigued after wound damage, the group began using tactics to try an atleast gain wound damage.

I avoided the Stunned rule when taking the first wound damamge, but I only allow partial action on the next turn

At first level.. it essentially gave characters MORE hit points, to stand up and fight with.
I use the rule that minor NPC's and Creatures do not possess Vitality, this allowed for great heroic battles at even low to mid levels. Hordes of lil Kobolds, running up only to take a grevious wound, and try to run away... at half speed.

Using the above rull at higher levels you can create Minor Henchman with decent levels in the NPC classes that present a challenge in means of hitting and defending, but once they take damage they usually ineffective. Cutting the CR of the creature by half.

As far as Armor as DR.... Dont like it much... I prefered Damage conversion, where it converted wounds to non-lethal. one a character runs out of vitality and takes non lethal damage, they would have to save DC 5+ the amount above thier Vitality or be knocked out for rounds = to amount failed the save by.

While that may spell death, it allowed for someone to knock someone out regardless of level etc.. although unlikely but much more possible in the standard SRD.

For monsters and such... I agree it is a bit of extra work to work up WP and such... but since I plan most encounters even random... it is easier...

As far as Dragon and other gargantuam creatures.... matters not much, yes they have a larger base of points, but once they work down the VP, all criticals do the Multiplied damage to WP.
"We wore him down.... Bring out the heavy weapons" (Warmage prepares his Hail of stone Wand)

Which also generally meant the dragon switched to heavy handed tactics as well, fatigued usually meant grounded.

Lastly while Criticals may affect WP, As DM I only chose to affect WP over the multiplier in the Main combats, such as BBEG or major NPC.

I also allowed the TOughness feat to add +3 to Vitality and +1 to Wounds, making the feat a more viable option.
Improved Toughness: I made the Pre-req Toughness, and allowed 1 wp per level

just my 2 coppers...
Jerks
08-03-06, 01:45 PM Cool. Vit/wounds is a flexible system. I like how everyone has their own houserules for it.

I also allowed the TOughness feat to add +3 to Vitality and +1 to Wounds, making the feat a more viable option.
Improved Toughness: I made the Pre-req Toughness, and allowed 1 wp per level

Funny. I did almost the exact opposite here. Toughness adds +3 wound points and Improved Toughness adds it total bonus to Vitality.

Of course in my game, wounds don't get affected as much as it would in your rules, so play on playa...play on.

Hey Jerks - I like your system - just have a few suggestions. If you do use the Iron Heroes system for armor DR (what I was referrring to before) then instead of AC bonus - I would reccomend have DR for vitality - tis' what I'm planning. So - full plate would be d8 for wound damage - and d4 for vitality damage.

Thanks. My players have had to suffer through the "capricious acts of the gods" as I've fine-tuned it.

We we first started running I had DR apply to vitality and wounds with the values found in Unearthed Arcana. My players disliked this so I dropped it, but kept DR in for wounds to help keep them alive.

Actually - I wouldn't have larger creatures get better DR for balance issues - unless you increase the size bonuses/penalty for AC and/or mkae it so that much smaller creatures can find chinks in the armor to lower/cancel the DR. I mean - in armor that big - there are going to be gaps. I'm not sure how one would do that exactly so... good luck. However - I can definetly see why a grigs shouldn't be able to get full DR. I mean - two grigs literally couldn't hurt each other - and how much would their armor really protect against a half-orc's warhammer?

Yeah, adding DR to every creature could be bad. What I was mulling didn't include natural armor, just worn armor. The thoughts being that a huge giant's hide armor would be a lot thicker than normal armor and better able to reduce incoming wound damage. So instead of DR 1d6 a huge giant's armor would provide DR 2d6.

Still an incomplete thought at this point, but just something that's been rattling around in my mind.
Goblinchaser
08-03-06, 08:35 PM 3) Wouding criticals (bypassing vitality) only occur when the threat roll was a natural 20. All other critcals damage vitality as under the hit point system. For example, a rapier threatens on 18-20 for x2 damage. On a roll of 18 or 19, with a confirmation roll, the player would do double vitality damage. On a roll of a 20, with a confirmation roll, the player would do 1x wound damage.

I like alot of your rules concerning the VP/WP, But how do your player react to above rule, especially with some weapons that only allow for a crit on a 20 but may normally do a x4 critical such as Heavy Pick, or a x3 such as a Battle Axe.

By not allowing the to take advantage of this diminishs the lethality of those weapons.

Just an inquiry
Jerks
08-04-06, 03:49 AM Ahh, I left that out. The x3 and x4 weapons are fairly hard to balance, as wounds can become a very binary system using these weapons {look I have wounds...now I don't!}

What we're using right now is this

On a wounding critical, the following damage is applied

x2 = 1x wound damage
x3 = 1x wound damage + 1x vitality damage
x4 = 1x wound damage + 2x vitality damage

If that's not to your liking, the following system might also be workable

x2 = 1x wound damage
x3 = 1.5x wound damage
x4 = 2x wound damage

Which do you like better? As I stated before, this is a system of near endless tweaks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mlasater 07-20-06, 12:59 AM	Has anyone actually used the wound & vitality point system from UA? How did it work out? I ws considering it in a new campaign and wanted other peoples opinions.
allenchan 07-20-06, 02:21 AM	Id recommend the WP/VP from Star Wars d20, or some balance of the two. Its slightly different, and has a lot more finality to it. The saves to not die in the UA version are far too easy. I have it so you have as many neg WP as you do positive WP, if you go lower then that you're dead. In the negs, a fort save to be disabled, or unconscious. Some things to consider are that the multiplers of weapons turn into crit range, so keen and imp crit become much better. I make each add a static +1 to the crit range (but I also let them stack). I also modified it so that precision based damage (IE, sneak attacks) will only apply 1 WP per extra die instead of full value. 1d6+2+6d6 WP is overkill, imo, while 1d6+8 is still scary Also, I ruled that CdG's against a person in negative WP is an auto death, regardless. Cheers :)
mlasater 07-24-06, 08:24 PM	Unfortunately, I don't own Star Wars d20. The comment about sneak attack looks like it has some validity.
Fiery Avenger 07-24-06, 08:33 PM	I thoroughly enjoy VP/WP and use it quite a lot - but it really does have to fit the flavor of a game. For me, that system works in a setting like Star Wars or d20 Modern - where characters are dodging bullets and rolling with blows left and right - in a setting like say, Forgotten Realms - heavy armor is more likely to be used, and as such seems to me to fit a bit more with the HP system. Systematically, it is a balanced and fun - and I use it whenever the opportunity is appropriate and afforded.
Phoenix Knight 07-24-06, 09:22 PM	When we first started using them I liked them a lot. But as levels increased, I found they could really screw up a carefully planned encounter if the enemies got a lucky crit. Actually, it didn't really bother me when the players got lucky kills, but I really hate to see it happen to them. Of course, using it with a group with no healing magic didn't help. Once the wounds start, it's all downhill. I think it may be an ideal system for certain settings (as Fiery Avenger says), but be careful if you hope for a long term game that should reach mid to high levels, unless you don't mind people losing characters to bad luck.
Valoy_Muniz 07-25-06, 10:46 AM	I plain to use it in my next game (a starwars was game with D&D casters,monsters and spells) 2 changes I am making to the wp is for evey 4 class levels you have in a non-barbarian class you add 1 wp (with skill you can toughen up alittle) Barbaians though add the class level to WP (This will balance the fact they can not use any tech skills.)
EzraTwitch 07-29-06, 03:30 PM	I used it for awhile but found out that it greatly increased the chances of TPK, I made my own spin off which you might try. Characters have a shock score which is equal to their level+their Con, if a character takes an amount of damage from a single attack that is equal to or exceeds their shock value they must make a For Save DC 20 or be knocked prone and stunned for 1d4 rounds, if they take damage from a single attack that does damage that exeeds twice their schock value (Con+Levelx2) roll a 10 sided dice and they are reduced to that many negative hit points (10=0hp). A succesful For Save DC 20 reduces this effect to that of normal "shock" I rember i changed the mechanics of Endurance and Die-Hard to effect the shock value, but I can remember exact mechanics.
TarlSS 07-29-06, 04:33 PM	Yes, it works quite well. However you need to implement a sort of 'armor =DR vs. Wounds" thing. It essentially means daggers can whittle away at your fatigue, but never penetrate unless delivered with high strength/sneak attack. This is IN ADDITION to armor granting normal AC. Essentially, Your Armor bonus/2 you have gives you DR against wound damage. Natural Armor/5 also grants DR vs Wounds. They do not stack. On a critical, Sneak attacks deal 1 point of extra wound damage per 1d6. This pretty much means critical hits have the potential to kill outright, but generally only when delivered with a giant hackaxe or a master thief. The thing about critical hits is that they pretty much have a guaranteed chance of fatiguing you unless you are wearing plate, and only then that only prevents up to 4 wound damage.
DragonBringerX 07-30-06, 05:29 PM	dose anyone think that this type of system might work well in a survivol horror game??? :confused:
batmanjr 07-30-06, 09:48 PM	Without doing any house ruling I have ran games with both VP/WP and straight up HP as per the DnD books. VP/WP is nice, and makes things more realistic(ie WAY more deadly) Straight up HP is great because you have a better idea as to when your character is in trouble health wise. But personally I like the HP method way better. Because you don't have to worry about being taken out in one hit from something that you should easily mop the floor with. My suggestion would be to decide what type of game your players want. Do they want more realistic feel or standard play? I think it would work great as is for a survival horror game. It makes total sense though. You see the heroes get chewed up, they rest for a bit and they act like nothing's happened. Yeah, they have a lot of VP back, but their WP are still low.
herceg 07-31-06, 08:24 AM	I've tried it several times, and it had two serious weaknesses. First, magic. Ok, so maybe that fireball caused only vitality loss (even when it had you in the area); but how do you explain that magic missile deals only vitality? If not, it just became spell number 1. again :) 5d4+5 wound damage... just think about it. Ok, how about disintegrate? When the ray hits you... how do you explain it's only vitality? And finger of death? Phantasmal Killer? etc. :) Magic with VP/WP is either illogical or much more deadly... My other problem was lazyness... All those monsters needed redo, because I had to check Con, size, etc. to calculate VP/WP. Think about dragons, with 3-400 Vp AND 2-300 WP. Nice? And it's only a some Old one :)
Vintar 08-02-06, 11:48 AM	You should probably lower the crit of weapons - making scimitars etc. just 19-20. Perhaps making present 19-20 weapons have a +2 bonus to confirm crit. As well, have Improved Crit only add 1 to crit as opposed to doubling - would be too powerful. The advantage is that massed low level troopers can actually be deadly to players at mid-hgih levels - even a couple if they get really lucky.
Xeviat-DM 08-02-06, 03:34 PM	I've been using it in a game that has reached 5th level, and so far I love it. I use a combination of WP/VP and the alternate death and dying rules from UA. I don't like Star Wars's stun on wound damage at all; the fatigue is enough of a penalty. Currently I am looking at revising the armor system to make it a little more realistic; the DR vs. Wound damage might be the best method of that. I'm going to start a thread on it.
Jerks 08-03-06, 03:47 AM	I love vitality and wounds, but I have tweaked it a bit from it's presentation in the UA. 1) I changed the "dying" Fort save DC. Instead of a flat number, I changed the Fort save DC to 10 +2/10 pts of damage. Then if/once a character starts making stabilization rolls, the DC starts a 1 + the previous DC. 2) Armor provides DR/-- that is only effective versus wound damage. Half of an armor's base AC value is a good rule of thumb. Natural armor can also provide DR/--(wounds only), on a 1 pt/5 pts of natural armor ratio, but I don't apply this universally. Immune to crit creatures that have wounds only (golems, undead, etc.) don't need any additional balancing. One option I've been considering is to steal the armor values from Iron Heroes. This is a variable die equal the armor's normal AC value. For example, an armor with a +4 AC bonus would have DR 1d4/--. I've also been thinking of expanding this option to scale with size. Small-medium-large values would stay to same [primarly so as not to penalize the gnomes and halflings] but moving further up or down the size would scale the armor DR as if on the weapon chart. Hmm, any thoughts on that one? 3) Wouding criticals (bypassing vitality) only occur when the threat roll was a natural 20. All other critcals damage vitality as under the hit point system. For example, a rapier threatens on 18-20 for x2 damage. On a roll of 18 or 19, with a confirmation roll, the player would do double vitality damage. On a roll of a 20, with a confirmation roll, the player would do 1x wound damage. 4) Wounding weapons do wound damage now instead of doing Con damage. Slightly less deadly, so I'm thinking of reducing the equivalent enhancement bonus. [No one has one yet in the game, so there's been no rush]. 5) Damaging spells can crit. Those with an attack roll follow rule 3. Spells with a save crit on a natural 1. To confirm, the player rolls the save again. A failure confirms the crit. In this case, the character takes 1 wound point per die of damage of the spell in addition the the normal effects of the spell. I think that's it. Good gaming.
Vintar 08-03-06, 11:30 AM	Hey Jerks - I like your system - just have a few suggestions. If you do use the Iron Heroes system for armor DR (what I was referrring to before) then instead of AC bonus - I would reccomend have DR for vitality - tis' what I'm planning. So - full plate would be d8 for wound damage - and d4 for vitality damage. Actually - I wouldn't have larger creatures get better DR for balance issues - unless you increase the size bonuses/penalty for AC and/or mkae it so that much smaller creatures can find chinks in the armor to lower/cancel the DR. I mean - in armor that big - there are going to be gaps. I'm not sure how one would do that exactly so... good luck. However - I can definetly see why a grigs shouldn't be able to get full DR. I mean - two grigs literally couldn't hurt each other - and how much would their armor really protect against a half-orc's warhammer?
Goblinchaser 08-03-06, 12:15 PM	I perefer the WP/VP system Some adjustments I had to make was already mentioned Criticals, I gave the character the choice to affect Vitality with the multiplier, or wounds with normal damage, reducing extra damage such as Sneak attacks to 1 per die. When Wounds reached 0 the character was disabled, at below 0 (although there was no negatives) the character had to make fort saves equal to 5 + amount below 0 + 1 for each previous save, each round to avoid dying. If they Made the save, they did not die but are considered dying, and would have to save the next round. Since I also use action points and the character can spend a AP to Stabilize, I do not contend with many deaths PC, unless they persish from Massive damage. Lastly, I like the system in High magic or low magic... Spells such as fireball normally do Vitality damage, but should they Critically fail a save, roll a natural 1, then fail a second roll, it applies to wounds. This keeps those spells on par with spells that allow attack rolls such as Melfs acid arrow, and the orb spells, since they are able to crit. Lastly since Vitality naturally Heals @ 1 x Character Level per hour of Light activity, it eliminated the need to keep track of non-lethal Damage, and allowed the party to rest for an hour or two before continuing on. The PC's Loved this part as it gave them a sembelance of regeneration. As well it freed up the clerics spells for combat, and utilitarian type spells, which was good as the only mage in the group was a Warmage... Also with the effect of being fatigued after wound damage, the group began using tactics to try an atleast gain wound damage. I avoided the Stunned rule when taking the first wound damamge, but I only allow partial action on the next turn At first level.. it essentially gave characters MORE hit points, to stand up and fight with. I use the rule that minor NPC's and Creatures do not possess Vitality, this allowed for great heroic battles at even low to mid levels. Hordes of lil Kobolds, running up only to take a grevious wound, and try to run away... at half speed. Using the above rull at higher levels you can create Minor Henchman with decent levels in the NPC classes that present a challenge in means of hitting and defending, but once they take damage they usually ineffective. Cutting the CR of the creature by half. As far as Armor as DR.... Dont like it much... I prefered Damage conversion, where it converted wounds to non-lethal. one a character runs out of vitality and takes non lethal damage, they would have to save DC 5+ the amount above thier Vitality or be knocked out for rounds = to amount failed the save by. While that may spell death, it allowed for someone to knock someone out regardless of level etc.. although unlikely but much more possible in the standard SRD. For monsters and such... I agree it is a bit of extra work to work up WP and such... but since I plan most encounters even random... it is easier... As far as Dragon and other gargantuam creatures.... matters not much, yes they have a larger base of points, but once they work down the VP, all criticals do the Multiplied damage to WP. "We wore him down.... Bring out the heavy weapons" (Warmage prepares his Hail of stone Wand) Which also generally meant the dragon switched to heavy handed tactics as well, fatigued usually meant grounded. Lastly while Criticals may affect WP, As DM I only chose to affect WP over the multiplier in the Main combats, such as BBEG or major NPC. I also allowed the TOughness feat to add +3 to Vitality and +1 to Wounds, making the feat a more viable option. Improved Toughness: I made the Pre-req Toughness, and allowed 1 wp per level just my 2 coppers...
Jerks 08-03-06, 01:45 PM	Cool. Vit/wounds is a flexible system. I like how everyone has their own houserules for it. I also allowed the TOughness feat to add +3 to Vitality and +1 to Wounds, making the feat a more viable option. Improved Toughness: I made the Pre-req Toughness, and allowed 1 wp per level Funny. I did almost the exact opposite here. Toughness adds +3 wound points and Improved Toughness adds it total bonus to Vitality. Of course in my game, wounds don't get affected as much as it would in your rules, so play on playa...play on. Hey Jerks - I like your system - just have a few suggestions. If you do use the Iron Heroes system for armor DR (what I was referrring to before) then instead of AC bonus - I would reccomend have DR for vitality - tis' what I'm planning. So - full plate would be d8 for wound damage - and d4 for vitality damage. Thanks. My players have had to suffer through the "capricious acts of the gods" as I've fine-tuned it. We we first started running I had DR apply to vitality and wounds with the values found in Unearthed Arcana. My players disliked this so I dropped it, but kept DR in for wounds to help keep them alive. Actually - I wouldn't have larger creatures get better DR for balance issues - unless you increase the size bonuses/penalty for AC and/or mkae it so that much smaller creatures can find chinks in the armor to lower/cancel the DR. I mean - in armor that big - there are going to be gaps. I'm not sure how one would do that exactly so... good luck. However - I can definetly see why a grigs shouldn't be able to get full DR. I mean - two grigs literally couldn't hurt each other - and how much would their armor really protect against a half-orc's warhammer? Yeah, adding DR to every creature could be bad. What I was mulling didn't include natural armor, just worn armor. The thoughts being that a huge giant's hide armor would be a lot thicker than normal armor and better able to reduce incoming wound damage. So instead of DR 1d6 a huge giant's armor would provide DR 2d6. Still an incomplete thought at this point, but just something that's been rattling around in my mind.
Goblinchaser 08-03-06, 08:35 PM	3) Wouding criticals (bypassing vitality) only occur when the threat roll was a natural 20. All other critcals damage vitality as under the hit point system. For example, a rapier threatens on 18-20 for x2 damage. On a roll of 18 or 19, with a confirmation roll, the player would do double vitality damage. On a roll of a 20, with a confirmation roll, the player would do 1x wound damage. I like alot of your rules concerning the VP/WP, But how do your player react to above rule, especially with some weapons that only allow for a crit on a 20 but may normally do a x4 critical such as Heavy Pick, or a x3 such as a Battle Axe. By not allowing the to take advantage of this diminishs the lethality of those weapons. Just an inquiry
Jerks 08-04-06, 03:49 AM	Ahh, I left that out. The x3 and x4 weapons are fairly hard to balance, as wounds can become a very binary system using these weapons {look I have wounds...now I don't!} What we're using right now is this On a wounding critical, the following damage is applied x2 = 1x wound damage x3 = 1x wound damage + 1x vitality damage x4 = 1x wound damage + 2x vitality damage If that's not to your liking, the following system might also be workable x2 = 1x wound damage x3 = 1.5x wound damage x4 = 2x wound damage Which do you like better? As I stated before, this is a system of near endless tweaks.