Post/Author/DateTime	Post
aotrscommander 05-10-07, 10:08 AM	This is an attempt to modify the magic system to a more flexible Mana-based system. This third version comes after first-play-test insights. (The earlier versions were posted on the DM boards). This is less because I like or dislike the Vancian/spell slot system as such (it works perfectly well) but more from (as usual) the flavour-based idiosyncracies of the system in comparision to that that I have personally encountered in fiction. Feedback would be greatly appricated. (Note: I am aware of and have dismissed the UA spell point system as being useful.) AIMS: 1) Remove Vancian casting (specifically memorising spells). Subsidiary to this, remove spellbooks as they exists in current rules. 2) Minimise changes to the actual spells themselves (maintain free scaling, not having to rewrite everything etc). 3) Place more importance on spell resource management; the campaign world for this system is designed such that if you burn all your magic one day, you might not get everything back. Specifically, this should apply to higher-level spells, which should be husbanded more; basically trying to encourage the use of more lower-level spells. Ideally, the system should grade towards lower-level spells being able to be cast much more frequently per day (if not actually reaching a per encounter balance), without causing too many story-breaking problems. E.g. being able to spam, say, Cure Disease which would cause world-consistency problems (while not cosmically mattering mechanically to the PCs). 1 and 3 are mainly to try to close on the magic systems I have read about/seen more often (see Mercedes Lackey, David Eddings, Tamora Pierce et al) where magic comes from a reserve (not unlike psionics), and using up all your magic in one go tends to leave you exhausted and it may take some time to recover all your strength. As usual, idiot-proofing and mechanical suggestions are welcomed! MAGIC RULES Magic uses Mana Points rather than spell slots. Spell Slots for spell levels 1-4 (0th are treated as 0) contribute their level in Mana points. Spell Slots for spell levels 5-9 contribute their level/2 (round up) in Mana points. Bonus Mana from high stats are gained as when the bonus spell slot would be obtained. Mana Points Mana Pool/ Primary Pool (Spell Access) Level Bard Cleric/ Paladin/ Shaman Sorcerer/ Warmage/ Wizard/ Dusk- Domain/ Druid Ranger/ Fvrd Soul Beguiler/ Wu Jen blade Specialist Spllthf/ Shugenja/ Hexbld 1st 0 (0th) 1 (1st) - 2 (1st) 3 (1st) 3 (1st) 1 (1st) 2 (1st) 1 (1st) 2nd 0 (1st) 2 - 3 4 4 2 3 1 3rd 1 4 (2nd) - 8 (2nd) 5 5 4 (2nd) 4 3 (2nd) 4th 2 (2nd) 7 0 (1st) 11 12 (2nd) 12 (2nd) 7 5 3 5th 5 10 (3rd) 0 20 (3rd) 14 14 10 (3rd) 9 (2nd) 6 (3rd) 6th 7 15 1 25 25 (3rd) 25 (3rd) 15 12 6 7th 7 (3rd) 20 (4th) 1 38 (4th) 30 30 20 (4th) 16 10 (4th) 8th 12 27 1 (2nd) 45 45 (4th) 45 (4th) 27 19 10 9th 15 16/16 (5th) 1 29/29 (5th) 52 52 16/16 (5th) 25 (3rd) 7/6 (5th) 10th 15 (4th) 20/19 3 33/32 33/32 (5th) 33/32 (5th) 20/19 31 7/6 11th 22 23/23 (6th) 3 (3rd) 39/39 (6th) 36/36 36/36 23/22 (6th) 37 8/8 (6th) 12th 26 26/26 6 42/42 42/42 (6th) 42/42 (6th) 26/25 42 8/8 13th 13/13 (5th) 31/31 (7th) 6 46/46 (7th) 45/45 45/45 30/29 (7th) 51 (4th) 10/10 (7th) 14th 17/16 35/34 7 (4th) 50/49 53/52 (7th) 53/52 (7th) 33/33 58 10/10 (7th) 15th 19/18 40/39 (8th) 11 57/57 (8th) 56/56 56/56 37/36 (8th) 66 12/12 (8th) 16th 20/19 (6th) 44/43 13 61/61 64/64 (8th) 64/64 (8th) 41/40 75 12/12 (8th) 17th 24/24 50/49 (9th) 16 70/70 (9th) 68/68 68/68 45/44 (9th) 41/41 (5th) 15/14 (9th) 18th 28/27 54/54 17 75/74 78/77 (9th) 78/77 (9th) 49/49 45/44 15/14 (9th) 19th 31/30 60/60 26 79/79 82/82 82/82 54/53 50/50 15/14 (9th) 20th 32/32 65/64 30 82/81 87/87 85/84 58/58 55/55 15/14 (9th) Bonus Mana Points Max spell level Score Modifier 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10-11 0 — — — — — — — — — 12-13 +1 1 — — — — — — — — 14-15 +2 1 2 — — — — — — — 16-17 +3 1 2 3 — — — — — — 18-19 +4 1 2 3 4 — — — — — 20-21 +5 2 2 3 4 3 — — — — 22-23 +6 2 4 3 4 3 3 — — — 24-25 +7 2 4 6 4 3 3 4 — — 26-27 +8 2 4 6 8 3 3 4 4 — 28-29 +9 3 4 6 8 6 3 4 4 5 30-31 +10 3 6 6 8 6 6 4 4 5 32-33 +11 3 6 9 8 6 6 8 4 5 34-35 +12 3 6 9 12 6 6 8 8 5 36-37 +13 4 6 9 12 9 6 8 8 10 38-39 +14 4 8 9 12 9 9 8 8 10 40-41 +15 4 8 12 12 9 9 12 8 10 42-43 +16 4 8 12 16 9 9 12 12 10 44-45 +17 5 8 12 16 12 9 12 12 15 Natural Spells: This catergory comprises all spells that are powered by nature and the environment, rather than personal power (Arcane) or from other entities (Divine). Nature spells are most similar to Divine spells in that they do not have any armour restrictions, and most Nature casters can cast any spell on their spell list. They do not use a Divine Focus; instead, where one is called for, they use a Natural material component, typically a sprig of holly or mistletoe. Mana Pools: Each spellcasting class has it’s own Mana Pool of Mana Points, gaining bonus Mana just as before. The Mana Pool can be used to cast any spell available that is 4th level or lower. When the Mana Pool reaches 0, there are no other effects. If both Mana Pool and Primary Pool reach 0 Mana Points, the caster becomes Exhausted. Bonus Mana from high casting stats derived from spell levels 1-4 go into the Mana Pool when the character obtains access to that spell level. Primary Pools: When a spell caster gains the capacity to cast 5th or higher level spells, they gain a Primary Pool. Their Mana Pool is reduced to 50% (round up) of the total Mana, and the buffer recieves the remainder. Bonus Mana from high casting stats derived from spell levels 5+ go into the Primary Pool when the character obtains access to that spell level. The Primary Pool can be used to cast any spell available of any level the caster is capable of casting. When the Primary Pool reaches 0, the caster becomes Fatigued. Orison/Cantrip Pool: Classes with Cantrips or Orisons gain a special pool that can be used only for 0th level spells. The Cantrip/Orison Pool is equal to to Spellcaster Class Level + spell key ability modifier. Domain Pool: Clerics gain a Mana reserve (which is itself divided into a Primary and Mana Pool) which they can use only on Domain spells. The Domain Primary Pool can cast spells of any level; the Domain Mana Pool can cast spells of 4th level or lower. The Mana cost for a Domain spell may be split between Domain and standard pools as desired (level limitations apply). Note that Domain spells can be cast entirely from the regular Mana reserve if desired; the Domain Pool in an addition to that reserve for Domain spells. Specialisation Pool: Specialist Wizards gain a Mana reserve (which is itself divided into a Primary and Mana Pool) which they can use only on spells of the specialisation. The Specialisation Primary Pool can cast spells of any level; the Domain Mana Pool can cast spells of 4th level or lower. The Mana cost for a Domain spell may be split between specialisation and standard pools as desired (level limitations apply). Note that specialisation spells can be cast entirely from the regular Mana reserve if desired; the Specialisation Pool in an addition to that reserve for specialisation spells. Compatable Mana: Mana Pools and Primary Pools dervived from different classes are not interchangable unless they both come from the same Mana Pool type or if the Mana Mastery feat is chosen. The Key Ability in question is the one which affects the maximum level of spells than can be cast and grants Bonus Mana, not the one which affects spell save DCs if more than one is used. Mana Pools that are compatable are not combined (meaning you track them seperately); rather, Mana can be used from any of the compatable Mana Pools (or more than one) when a spell is cast. Emotive Arcane Casters (Arcane, Cha): Bard, Dragon, Dread Necromancer, Hexblade, Sorcerer, Spellthief, Warmage Erudite Arcane Casters (Arcane, Int): Assassin, Beguiler, Duskblade, Wizard Natural Casters (Natural, Wis): Druid, Ranger, Paladin (Natural), other nature spell caster (Cusith, Nymph etc) Divine Casters (Divine, Wis): Adept, Cleric, Healer, Paladin (Divine), Shaman Emotive Divine Casters (Divine, Cha): Favoured Soul Casting spells: Spellcasters can cast any spell they know as they like, provided they have enough Mana; they do not need to memorise spells. Some classes (mainly Divine and Natural magic users) can only cast a number of unique spells per day. Unique spells per day: A Cleric or Druid can only command so much attention from the deity or from nature. Such classes can only cast a certain number of unqiue spells per day. Once they have reached their alloted limited, they cannot cast any different spells (though they may continue to recast any of the spells they have used already). The number of unique spells per day is typically spellcaster class level + the class’s Key ability modifier (usually Wisdom). Some spells do not count towards this allotment. Mana Cost: Mana Cost for spells is 1 point per spell level, plus 1 point per spell slot increase for any Metamagic feat(s). 0th level spells cost 1 Mana (but may be drawn from either Cantrip/Orison Pool, Mana Pool or Primary Pool). Metamagic feats are applied as the spell is cast. They do not add extra time to the casting, nor do they need memorisation. Regardless of Mana, no magic-user can cast a spell costing more Mana (after any Mana modifications for Metamagic Feats have been added) than the highest level spell slot that they would normally have. Certain spells do not cost Mana to cast. In all three cases, any Mana increases due to Metamagic feats must be paid for. Mana Recharge: Mana is restored over time. To begin recharging, a character needs one hour of nonstrenuous activity (which means no spells, combat, concentration or heavy physical exertion). After this period, the Mana Pool starts to recharge. It recharges by 10% (round up) of it’s maximum per additional hour of nonstrenuous activity or rest. 8 consecutive hours of sleep (or restful calm for creatures that do not need to sleep) restores 100% of the Mana Pool (instead of 70%). If the rest is interupted in this time, each interuption adds one hour the the amount of sleep required (but the Mana Pool continues to refill at 10% an hour after the first hour in any case). The Primary Pool does not recharge until the character sleeps (or equvilent thereof) for 8 hours. 8 consecutive hours of sleep (or restful calm for creatures that do not need to sleep) restores 100% of the Primary Pool. If the rest is interupted in this time, each interuption adds one hour the the amount of sleep required. Background Magic: In Null or Minimal background Magic areas, Mana does not recharge. In Low background Magic areas (much of the campaign world), recharge rate is halved. (I.e. the percentages recovered ar halved). In High background magic areas, Mana recharges at normal rate (this is the level of the average campaign world). Creatures with Power Store Feat gain Mana equal to the feat stat modifier (either the spell key ability or Constitution if the character has none) for each of their Pools for every 8 hours of nonstrenuous activity or rest, regardless of background magical conditions. This cannot exceed their normal total, but is of benefit in areas of Low Magic or Minimal Magic. Power Burn: If a creature is at 0 Mana and is still spending Mana (voluntarily or otherwise), they may burn ability points from any ability score to produce Mana, at a rate of 2 ability to 1 Mana. The creature cannot reduce their relevant spellcasting key ability below the level required to cast the spell, but it may otherwise reduce any ability as much as desired (which could even lead to death if Con is drained to 0). This is Ability Burn and can only be recovered by natural healing. CLASSES ADEPT Adepts can cast a number of unique spells per day equal to their class level plus their Wisdom modifier. CLERIC Clerics can cast a number of unique spells per day equal to their class level plus their Wisdom modifier. Spells that they can cast spontaneously (usually either Cure or Inflict spells) do not count toward this limit. Clerics gain a Domain Pool. DRUID Druids are Natural, not Divine spell users; they draw their power from the magic and nature that surrounds them, not a deity. Druids can cast a number of unique spells per day equal to their class level plus their Wisdom modifier. Spells that they can cast spontaneously (usually Summon Nature’s Ally spells) do not count toward this limit. PALADIN Standard: Paladins can cast a number of unique spells per day equal to half their class level plus their Wisdom modifier. Rebalanced Paladin (link in sig): Paladins can cast a number of unique spells per day equal to their class level -3 plus their Wisdom modifier. RANGER Rangers are Natural, not Divine, spell casters. Rangers can cast a number of unique spells per day equal to half their class level plus their Wisdom modifier. WIZARD Replace Scribe Scroll and Summon Familiar feats at level one with any two from the following: Eschew Materials, Power Store, Scribe Scroll, Summon Familiar, Immeditate Magic (Specialist only) Specialisations: Specialist Wizards gain a Mana Pool for the specialisation. Learning Spells: A wizard requires 24 hours of study to attempt to learn a spell (or 1 week’s casual study) and requires the expendature of 30 XP per spell level. The wizard makes a Spellcraft check of DC 15+ spell level. If the check is sucessful, the wizard has learnt the spell. Otherwise, the check may not be attempted again until the wizard gains at least 1 rank of Spellcraft. Spells learnt from gaining a new level do not require the expenditure of XP or skill checks. FEATS Power Store [General] Prerequisite: None Benefit: Your body naturally creates Mana to an extent, as opposed to just taking it from the world around you. You regain Mana to all your Mana Pools for every 8 hours total rest, regardless of background magical conditions. The amount is equal to the spellcasting key ability for that Mana Pool (or Constitution if none is specified). This cannot exceed your normal total, but is of benefit in areas of Low Magic or Minimal Magic, and prevents drain in Null Magic. In addition, you are less vulnerable to the effects of Low or worse Magic areas. This feat also has benefical effects on any Supernatural or Spell-Like Abilties you have in such areas. Design Notes: Hopefully, adding the XP cost for Wizards will somewhat balance the fact they can now cast any spell they no. If not, they can have a unqiue spell limit added, but I'm hoping that's not necessary. The divine casters with effectively unlimited spell lists (especially Cleric/Druid) hopefully have also been limited to a sane number of different spells per day, without adding too much record keeping. In the earlier version, all current 'prepared' caster go a list of readied spells to limit their felxibilty (spells not on the list reading to be read out of a spell or prayer book - not a good idea in combat), but in practise, that turned out to be just as time-consuming as normal Vancian preparation. So the erudite-inspired unqiue spells limit will hopefull stop that. The reason 1-4th level spell contribute their full level was after the first play-test, it was quite obvious that the bottom-end casters were not getting enough Mana (especially the poor Duskblade, who was actually slightly worse off!) So, I boosted the Mana to full. The Primary Pool remains at half so as to try and reduce the problem of characters spamming their high-level spells. The most recent change, as noted above, was updating and streamlining the Mana recharge. What I had before was a bit cumbersome and didn't really help much in achieving the flavour objective. In addition, I'm moving closer to a per encounter rather than per day basis (though not completely!) My biggest concern at the moment is the potential damage to the versimilitude of being able to spam low-level spells to break the story (if not the mechanics) as mentioned above. I did toy with the idea of some sort of fatigue system, but that more or less brings you back to per-day. The current system of 1 hour rest, +10% Mana Pool/hour thereafter is a bit of a compromise. You're not going to be able to spam low-level spells all day long, but you'll get a fair number here and there on a day's journey, for example. Edit: Added the amendments discussed.
Lacyon 05-10-07, 01:41 PM	Looks pretty nice! Some comments below: Mana Pools: Each spellcasting class has it’s own Mana Pool of Mana Points, gaining bonus Mana just as before. The Mana Pool can be used to cast any spell available that is 4th level or lower. When the Mana Pool reaches 0, there are no other effects. If both Mana Pool and Primary Pool reach 0 Mana Points, the caster becomes Exhausted. Bonus Mana from high casting stats derived from spell levels 1-4 go into the Mana Pool when the character obtains access to that spell level. Primary Pools: When a spell caster gains the capacity to cast 5th or higher level spells, they gain a Primary Pool. Their Mana Pool is reduced to 50% (round up) of the total Mana, and the buffer recieves the remainder. Bonus Mana from high casting stats derived from spell levels 5+ go into the Primary Pool when the character obtains access to that spell level. The Primary Pool can be used to cast any spell available of any level the caster is capable of casting. When the Primary Pool reaches 0, the caster becomes Fatigued. Interesting concept. Sounds easy enough to use in practice. 0th level spells: The caster gets a number of free 0th level spell per day equal to Spellcaster Class Level + spell key ability modifier. The caster must have at least 1 Mana. Subsequent castings cost 1 Mana. Hmmm. Not sure I like this, by itself. Having to track how many 0-level effects one has cast in addition to mana points seems awkward. Here's an idea: allow a DC 15 concentration check to cast a 0th-level spell for free. If the check fails, the user spends 1 mana on it instead. (Must have 1 mana to attempt). This would eliminate the bookkeeping aspect. It does mean that people can basically cast unlimited 0-level spells outside of combat by taking 10 (if you allow it on the check) or getting a +14 concentration modifier. But I don't think unlimited 0-level spell effects is likely to ruin anyone's game. Domains: Clerics may cast one domain spell of each level that they can cast without Mana cost, provided they have at least 1 Mana. They can cast any domain spell they know as they like otherwise. Specialisations: Specialist wizards get the first specialisation spell that they cast per day of each level free (including 0th level), provided they have at least 1 Mana. I don't like these for the same reason as the 0-level stuff. The extra bookkeeping is awkward. How about a third (smaller) mana pool that can only be used to cast specialty/domain spells? Power Burn: If a creature is at 0 Mana and is still spending Mana (voluntarily or otherwise), they may burn ability points to produce Mana, at a rate of 2 ability to 1 Mana. The creature cannot reduce the relevant spellcasting key ability below the level required to cast the spell, but it may otherwise reduce any ability as much as desired (which could even lead to death if Con is drained to 0). This is Ability Burn and can only be recovered by natural healing. Just for clarity: Can the caster burn any ability they choose, or only their spellcasting stat? Good reading -Lacyon
aotrscommander 05-10-07, 05:31 PM	Hmmm. Not sure I like this, by itself. Having to track how many 0-level effects one has cast in addition to mana points seems awkward. Here's an idea: allow a DC 15 concentration check to cast a 0th-level spell for free. If the check fails, the user spends 1 mana on it instead. (Must have 1 mana to attempt). This would eliminate the bookkeeping aspect. It does mean that people can basically cast unlimited 0-level spells outside of combat by taking 10 (if you allow it on the check) or getting a +14 concentration modifier. But I don't think unlimited 0-level spell effects is likely to ruin anyone's game. I don't like these for the same reason as the 0-level stuff. The extra bookkeeping is awkward. How about a third (smaller) mana pool that can only be used to cast specialty/domain spells? I have very seriously considered unlimited 0th level spells, but there are just a handful of them whose impact if unlimited could be dubious; Create Water in particular, and Cure Minor Wounds to a lesser degree could be damaging to the world if allowed unlimited use. I don't think the record-keeping is a big issue. At the worst (assuming your a cleric or specialist) all you have to do is put a tick next to each spell level and keep track of three numbers (Mana/Primary/Orisons). I think this is less hassle to keep track of than the full spell list. I think keeping track of the unique spells will be more troublesome. Unfortuantely, there's no way around that, short of letting clerics and druids have unlimited access to all their spells or making them learn spells like Wizards. However, unlimited 0th level spells is something I'll be looking into in detail at when we start playtesting in anger (so far, the inital playtest was a Duskblade who doesn't have 0th level). I'd rather start down and work up, since I get less hassle from the players! Just for clarity: Can the caster burn any ability they choose, or only their spellcasting stat? Any stat; I think that this is farily reasonable at 2:1 (and manages the whole heroic last effort nicely!) I'll clarify accordingly...
Lacyon 05-14-07, 11:23 AM	I don't think the record-keeping is a big issue. At the worst (assuming your a cleric or specialist) all you have to do is put a tick next to each spell level and keep track of three numbers (Mana/Primary/Orisons). Hadn't thought of it that way. Right. You could even call that an "Orisons Spell Pool" with Mana that can only be used for Orisons (at a cost of 1 mana each). I still have a personal preference for converting the domain/specialty stuff to a pool of its own for consistency's sake, but it's probably not a huge deal. -Lacyon
Shadowmind64 05-14-07, 11:43 AM	Bravo Aotrs! I like this system a lot, its much better than that crap from UA, but it also remains distinctly diferent from psionics. Using this mana system also makes it easy to tinker the classes a bit ex. in a low magic world, a wizard may have a 3/4 attk bonus or sum such, but reduced mp. All in all, great job! p.s. I really like the whole fatigue/exhaustion thing, ive been looking for a way to incorporate that into my games, but it just doesnt work well with vancian casting.
aotrscommander 05-15-07, 08:11 AM	Hadn't thought of it that way. Right. You could even call that an "Orisons Spell Pool" with Mana that can only be used for Orisons (at a cost of 1 mana each). I still have a personal preference for converting the domain/specialty stuff to a pool of its own for consistency's sake, but it's probably not a huge deal. -Lacyon Thinking about it, calling the free 0th level an cantrip/orison pool isn't a bad idea. It doesn't actually change the mechanics, but it does seem a little more friendly to keep track of. As for the domain spells, I could put in a domain pool, but limiting domain spells to 1/level/day seems counter to part of the point about getting rid of memorising spells. ("I can only pray for Unholy Smite 1/day" dor example!) Also, domain spells do count towards the unqiue spells per day. On the other hand, it might seem more 'friendly' in the same fashion as cantrips/orisons to have a specilist/domain pool (plus it adds a little more flexibility). You might have to have a Domain Mana and Domain Primary though (I don't really want clerics squeezing out more 9th level spells than we can possibly avoid!. Bringing you up to a total of 5 numbers and one list of spells to keep track of instead of three numbers, a tick list and a list of spells...which do you think is going to be easier? Bravo Aotrs! I like this system a lot, its much better than that crap from UA, but it also remains distinctly diferent from psionics. Using this mana system also makes it easy to tinker the classes a bit ex. in a low magic world, a wizard may have a 3/4 attk bonus or sum such, but reduced mp. All in all, great job! p.s. I really like the whole fatigue/exhaustion thing, ive been looking for a way to incorporate that into my games, but it just doesnt work well with vancian casting. Thank you! That was the aim. The main job now is practical play-testing, which might not get tackled in anger for a while, unfortunatly! (I've got two large campaigns upcoming on standard D&D worlds, and the first playtest group I picked for the game world mostly had psionic characters (more in one go than we've had ever before!) I'll jus have to throw crap-loads of spellcasters at them...)
Lacyon 05-15-07, 08:58 AM	On the other hand, it might seem more 'friendly' in the same fashion as cantrips/orisons to have a specilist/domain pool (plus it adds a little more flexibility). You might have to have a Domain Mana and Domain Primary though (I don't really want clerics squeezing out more 9th level spells than we can possibly avoid!. Bringing you up to a total of 5 numbers and one list of spells to keep track of instead of three numbers, a tick list and a list of spells...which do you think is going to be easier? Here's a thought: Make only one Domain pool, but only allow half the cost of higher-level Domain spells to be payed from that pool (the other half has to come from Primary). Now you're down to 4 pools, no tick list. -Lacyon
aotrscommander 05-25-07, 06:33 AM	Here's a thought: Make only one Domain pool, but only allow half the cost of higher-level Domain spells to be payed from that pool (the other half has to come from Primary). Now you're down to 4 pools, no tick list. -Lacyon I've not replied for a while since I've been thinking hard about this. In the end, I think, using half means you've got to do an extra process and alter two totals, so I'm not convinced it'd be any quicker or easier to do (and it's fractionally less intuitive). Let's put it in perspective: You from this: (taken directly from the states of a 20th level cleric (Wis 23) I happened to have floating around) Spells: Cleric Spells 6/7+1/7+1/6+1/6+1/6+1/6+1/4+1/4+1/4+1 Caster Level 20 DC 16+lvl Domains: Destruction (1/day +4 attack +20 damage), Madness (-1 to all Wis skills and saves; 1/day add +6 to one Wis skill check or save) Detect Magic x 2, Shockwave x 4 Blade of Blood, Divine Favour, Heartache, Ice Gauntlet, Sanctuary, Shockwave Strike, Smite, (Inflict Light Wounds) Bull’s Strength, Close Wounds, Lesser Restoration, Necrotic Cyst x2, Sap Strength, Wave of Grief, (Shatter) Dispel Magic, Divine Retaliation, Mark of Doom, Mystic Lash, Necrotic Bloat, Unholy Storm, (Rage) Divine Power, Freedom of Movement, Necrotic Domination, Panacea, Sound Lance, Wall of Evil, (Confusion) Break Enchantment, Earth Reaver, Meteoric Strike, Necrotic Burst, Righteous Might, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, (Bolts of Bedevilment) Greater Dispel Magic, Energy Immunity, Heal, Mass Bull’s Strength, Necrotic Eruption, Rejection, (Harm) Blasphemy, Blood to Water, Pulse of Hate, Wretched Blight, (Disintegrate) Heat Drain, Regenerate, Strength of the Titans, Unholy Aura, (Maddening Scream) Gate, Mass Harm, Miracle, Necrotic Termination, (Weird) To this: Spells: Cleric Mana: 78/70 Orison Pool: 26 Domain Pool: 10/19 Unique Spells per Day: 26 Caster Level 20 (9th) DC 16+lvl Domains: Destruction (1/day +4 attack +20 damage), Madness (-1 to all Wis skills and saves; 1/day add +6 to one Wis skill check or save) *List of up to 26 spells as you play (not including orisons, spontaneous cures or inflicts)* This gives you only about 40% of the same number of spells as Vancian, actually looking at the numbers of spells 26 (+orisons) as opposed to 65 (including orisions). Maybe it ought to be 2 x spell caster class level + key ability...? Viable, you think?
aotrscommander 06-06-07, 08:29 AM	Okay, finally foun time to update this! I've added the suggestions noted earlier, which seem better. So, the only question at the stage is now, is caster class level + key ability enough spells fro cleics or druids, or should it be more?
Scraelig277 07-02-07, 10:59 PM	Nice system, I think I'll use it. What about the reserve feats from Complete Mage? Would you just say that they could be used as long as you had enough mana to cast the spell?