Appearence System (vauge) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Appearence System (vauge) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Card_Wizard
10-15-05, 12:33 AM Hello,

My variant here is a psuedo answer to the whole Charisma = Hotness value quandry. Characters have a stat added in this system, Appearence. It is not however, an actual number. It is instead a simple term that is compared to Average and terms above and below it to determine its worth. For example, this is the baseline chart of appearence values I've thought of

Hot Tamale/Stud Muffin
Sexy Beast
Beautiful/Handsome
Average
Dirty
Downtrodden
Whacked over the head with an ugly tree.

Or six terms of resonable simularity. Three for good looks, three for bad looks. Characters start out average at character creation. For each day they spend keeping their appearence up (Washing regularly and such) They're appearence remains the same. For each day they spend extra time (at least an hour) improving their appearence (makeovers, fancy perfumes/soaps, rigerous showering/shaving) they go up one rank and finally, for each day they neglect their hygene and appearence, they go down one rank. Plus, if something really nasty happens to them, like a flying dragon voids its bowels atop of them, then they could have a rapid drop in appearence.

So with this system, you can have the good looking half-orc with the charisma of 3, he'd just not be a very good person in social situations with people of greater depth. But for those who like looks? He'd be the hit of the party.
Darrett
10-15-05, 12:45 AM Comliness or Appearance scores generally just detract from Charisma. It makes Charisma a perfect dump-stat for powergaming purposes.

I'm feverishly working to give Charisma more use within the game system at the moment... tying it into Resurrection is the first thing I've done.

When implemented in this way, I suppose it wouldn't hurt things too much... but it seems relatively unnecessary to me.
Millennium
10-15-05, 08:18 AM I'm trying to remember exactly how Comeliness worked in 1e. If you tried to port it over to 3e, you might try something like this:

1) Comeliness is determined after the other six ability scores. It is thus impossible to make it a dump-stat.
2) Comeliness is a straight 3d6 roll plus your Charisma modifier. Charisma doesn't directly determine your appearance, but it can help determine what you can (or bother to) do with what the gods gave you, so to speak. As for "what the gods gave you", this is essentially random.
3) Your Comeliness is not further modified if your Charisma modifier goes up or down; if you want to increase it you must do so directly.
4) Your Comeliness modifier applies to initial NPC reactions (but not further attempts to alter those reactions). It can also, at the DM's option, apply to Bluff and Gather Information checks if appearance is a factor in those specific situations.
5) The standard races recieve no bonus or penalty to Comeliness. Alternatively, you might apply "effective modifiers" between certain races, but this could get very complicated very quickly.

As for Charisma modifying resurrections, I like this idea. How does this sound:

1) Your starting Charisma determines the number of times you can be raised from the dead: it's equal to your Charisma score (not the modifier; the score itself). This gives you a fair number of "lives", but it is still not unlimited.
2) Every time you're raised from the dead, this score goes down by one, plus you lose one point of Charisma (in lieu of one level, as in RAW). True resurrection can prevent the Charisma loss, but not the loss of a "life". Being killed by backlash damage from an epic spell costs two Charisma points (just as it costs two levels in RAW), but it still only costs one "life".
3) Other adjustments to your Charisma have no effect on this number. However, you can increase the number directly through wishes, at a rate of one wish per point. You can also choose to raise this score by one every four levels instead of raising an ability score, but only a desperate (or daft) player is likely to do this.
4) Certain salient divine abilities can raise people from the dead; these do not affect either Charisma or lives. However, the gods don't do this for just anybody. Miracle is not a salient divine ability.

This changes death and resurrection from a primarily physical trauma into a primarily psychological one, but this makes some sense. You have neither body nor metabolism while dead, and even in the worst situation you come back as you were just before you died, so where does the physical trauma come from? On the other hand, we know that you carry no memory of the afterlife with you when you come back, plus you're basically wrenched through multiple planes, and that could certainly take a toll on a person's personality.

Does anyone see any issues with these ideas? It vastly improves the value of Charisma to a powergamer while not affecting what the other scores do too much. It also decouples appearance from Charisma while not totally divorcing them, and it does so in a way that doesn't allow Comeliness to become the new dump-stat since it's determined separately from the other scores.
Cymraegmorgan
10-15-05, 12:13 PM I'm feverishly working to give Charisma more use within the game system at the moment... tying it into Resurrection is the first thing I've done.

Make Initiative a Charisma Check, instead of a Dex check. This makes initiative akin to Bluff.

this is the baseline chart of appearence values I've thought of...
You could, instead of making it a changing number, let players choose their appearance "value", and have the high end and low end have both positive and negative effects.
Like "Hot tamale/stud muffin" would be +2 to Diplomacy/-2 intimidate.
Whacked with the Ugly tree would be the opposite.
RunningWilder
10-15-05, 12:17 PM Check out the Ravenloft Player's Handbook for the Outcast Rating system. It's a simple number that adjusts your social interactions according to how different or hideous you are. Look at it this way. It allows you to have a sky high charisma (which represents your force of personaility) but still be ugly enough to scare children and small animals just by smiling at them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Card_Wizard 10-15-05, 12:33 AM	Hello, My variant here is a psuedo answer to the whole Charisma = Hotness value quandry. Characters have a stat added in this system, Appearence. It is not however, an actual number. It is instead a simple term that is compared to Average and terms above and below it to determine its worth. For example, this is the baseline chart of appearence values I've thought of Hot Tamale/Stud Muffin Sexy Beast Beautiful/Handsome Average Dirty Downtrodden Whacked over the head with an ugly tree. Or six terms of resonable simularity. Three for good looks, three for bad looks. Characters start out average at character creation. For each day they spend keeping their appearence up (Washing regularly and such) They're appearence remains the same. For each day they spend extra time (at least an hour) improving their appearence (makeovers, fancy perfumes/soaps, rigerous showering/shaving) they go up one rank and finally, for each day they neglect their hygene and appearence, they go down one rank. Plus, if something really nasty happens to them, like a flying dragon voids its bowels atop of them, then they could have a rapid drop in appearence. So with this system, you can have the good looking half-orc with the charisma of 3, he'd just not be a very good person in social situations with people of greater depth. But for those who like looks? He'd be the hit of the party.
Darrett 10-15-05, 12:45 AM	Comliness or Appearance scores generally just detract from Charisma. It makes Charisma a perfect dump-stat for powergaming purposes. I'm feverishly working to give Charisma more use within the game system at the moment... tying it into Resurrection is the first thing I've done. When implemented in this way, I suppose it wouldn't hurt things too much... but it seems relatively unnecessary to me.
Millennium 10-15-05, 08:18 AM	I'm trying to remember exactly how Comeliness worked in 1e. If you tried to port it over to 3e, you might try something like this: 1) Comeliness is determined after the other six ability scores. It is thus impossible to make it a dump-stat. 2) Comeliness is a straight 3d6 roll plus your Charisma modifier. Charisma doesn't directly determine your appearance, but it can help determine what you can (or bother to) do with what the gods gave you, so to speak. As for "what the gods gave you", this is essentially random. 3) Your Comeliness is not further modified if your Charisma modifier goes up or down; if you want to increase it you must do so directly. 4) Your Comeliness modifier applies to initial NPC reactions (but not further attempts to alter those reactions). It can also, at the DM's option, apply to Bluff and Gather Information checks if appearance is a factor in those specific situations. 5) The standard races recieve no bonus or penalty to Comeliness. Alternatively, you might apply "effective modifiers" between certain races, but this could get very complicated very quickly. As for Charisma modifying resurrections, I like this idea. How does this sound: 1) Your starting Charisma determines the number of times you can be raised from the dead: it's equal to your Charisma score (not the modifier; the score itself). This gives you a fair number of "lives", but it is still not unlimited. 2) Every time you're raised from the dead, this score goes down by one, plus you lose one point of Charisma (in lieu of one level, as in RAW). True resurrection can prevent the Charisma loss, but not the loss of a "life". Being killed by backlash damage from an epic spell costs two Charisma points (just as it costs two levels in RAW), but it still only costs one "life". 3) Other adjustments to your Charisma have no effect on this number. However, you can increase the number directly through wishes, at a rate of one wish per point. You can also choose to raise this score by one every four levels instead of raising an ability score, but only a desperate (or daft) player is likely to do this. 4) Certain salient divine abilities can raise people from the dead; these do not affect either Charisma or lives. However, the gods don't do this for just anybody. Miracle is not a salient divine ability. This changes death and resurrection from a primarily physical trauma into a primarily psychological one, but this makes some sense. You have neither body nor metabolism while dead, and even in the worst situation you come back as you were just before you died, so where does the physical trauma come from? On the other hand, we know that you carry no memory of the afterlife with you when you come back, plus you're basically wrenched through multiple planes, and that could certainly take a toll on a person's personality. Does anyone see any issues with these ideas? It vastly improves the value of Charisma to a powergamer while not affecting what the other scores do too much. It also decouples appearance from Charisma while not totally divorcing them, and it does so in a way that doesn't allow Comeliness to become the new dump-stat since it's determined separately from the other scores.
Cymraegmorgan 10-15-05, 12:13 PM	I'm feverishly working to give Charisma more use within the game system at the moment... tying it into Resurrection is the first thing I've done. Make Initiative a Charisma Check, instead of a Dex check. This makes initiative akin to Bluff. this is the baseline chart of appearence values I've thought of... You could, instead of making it a changing number, let players choose their appearance "value", and have the high end and low end have both positive and negative effects. Like "Hot tamale/stud muffin" would be +2 to Diplomacy/-2 intimidate. Whacked with the Ugly tree would be the opposite.
RunningWilder 10-15-05, 12:17 PM	Check out the Ravenloft Player's Handbook for the Outcast Rating system. It's a simple number that adjusts your social interactions according to how different or hideous you are. Look at it this way. It allows you to have a sky high charisma (which represents your force of personaility) but still be ugly enough to scare children and small animals just by smiling at them.