Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tisner44 03-22-04, 01:24 PM	I'm just about to start a new campaign and I do like some of the variants and will use them. I'm not sure with spell points...does it make the spellcaster too powerful. Another thought one, of my players said that the wizard would lose some of the strategic nature...no longer have to be as careful with their spells. Tell what you think or if you are using any current house rules.
Lina_Inverse 03-22-04, 01:41 PM	wizards clerics and druids are overpowered in spell points.sorcerers are completely viable.if you make druids&clerics use the spont system and remove wizards you are fine. although i suggest letting sorcs get an arcane domain and 2 slots for them at odd levels to rectify the wtf do spont divine casters get spells earlier?!!?
Tigald 03-22-04, 01:52 PM	I love spell points. It gives Spellcaster the flexibility,which they deserve. In every game, be it pen&Paper or on your pc, the mage or spellcaster in general has mana. When i played D&D the first time, it shocked me, that a spellcaster can only cast a certain number of spells per day. I just asked myself "why on hell?" If you have learned how to weave the magic in school, why should you be restricted to certain uses of spells per day rather than your spirtual power (Mana or Spell Points). A Spellcaster should be able to cast his spells whenever he wants and however he wants! I hate the "normal" metamagic system for spellcasters who prepare there spells. Now spell points offer a much better solution. Personally i don't think spell points are unbalanced it just give spellcaster the flair they need. And don't listen to the "But it was the Sorcerer/Favored Soul who was able to do such things". The Sorcerer is a nice class, but you can give it it's flair not with spontenious casting, but with bloodlines or other things. Just my Opinion Tigald
Lina_Inverse 03-22-04, 01:59 PM	D&D is the all father of gameing,from it sprang all rpgs.DISRESPECT IT NOT CHILD! play ff1,notice something?its got spell slots. wizards,clerics and druids are overpowered they do not deserve nor need MORE.nor do they in any way deserve more versitily of which they have disgusting levels of.
Tigald 03-22-04, 02:09 PM	What's up with you? You obviously have a different opinion, but is that necessary? I mean you can argue with me and maybe convince me with your arguments, but instead you talk some big trash. "DISRESPECT IT NOT CHILD!" Do you read your own posts? Are you o.k.? I know a good psychatrists for people like you. Grow up kiddy and then talk with arguments. Tigald P.S.: I can say whatever I want about your GOD-FATHER OF ALL GAMING. Did you create it? Or why do you take offence?
Lina_Inverse 03-22-04, 02:20 PM	sorry bout that i got mad.your compareing a system used in >videogames< to disrespect D&D.and saying a system that makes the best classes even stronger is inately better. calm down lina,what is it you want to say. ok ready. MP is a system used in video games where physical abilitys grow at a rate close to the amount of damage magic deals,on the other hand physical damage in D&D is very very low compared to the amount of damage dealt by magic which is always save or die. D&D does not need an mp system,haveing it as an option >is< a good thing but D&D should and will always have spell levels and slots. the inate problem with the mp system is it grants more power and flexibility to the most powerful classes,the pure prep casters.allowing the wizard to memorize >one< baleful pollymorph and cast it with all his mp is insane.even the 2E system still required you memorized the spells just made it so you could memorize them how >you< wanted. wizard do not need more flair how much more flair is needed when you can turn people into unsentient animals?or simply say DIE and watch people die.
Tisner44 03-22-04, 02:27 PM	Please don't get mad at anybody for there opinion...some will like the new sp system and some won't. I just want to here your reasons for why or why not.
Lina_Inverse 03-22-04, 02:30 PM	ive stated my reason,it causes certin classes of which happen to be the most powerfull to be more so.
Bifford 03-22-04, 02:37 PM	One house rule you could use is to make clerics and wizards prepare their spells, but use spell spoints instead of spell slots to determine how many they can prepare every day (prepare all the meteor swarms you want, but you'll be stuck with them for the day). This gives them more flexible preparation, without taking away their "Oops, I didn't see that coming" nature. It also solves the issue of clerics and spontaneous cure spells; a cleric can convert one of his prepared spells into a cure spells as in the normal system.
Tigald 03-22-04, 02:38 PM	Hey Lina, You after all seem to be a nice guy with a nice opinion! My Problem with the Spells Per Day thing is that you prepare your Spells at morning and complete them later on. Your are right, balance is an important thing. But don't forget, spellcasters got tweaked a lot espiacially wizards. The DCs of spells are lowered drastically. Spell Power just adds to the Caster Level. Caster Level is not important for spells like Baleful Polymorph, but for evocation spell for example. Evocation spells like fireball does cost extra spell points. "amount of damage dealt by magic which is always save or die." As i said above, evocation spells cost extra spell points and save or die spells are tweaked a much. You also can only cast one spell per round(except quicken spell, but quicken spell cost 4 extra spell points and you can only quicken low level spells). Of Course a wizard could cast Baleful Polymorph one after another, but he uses all his spellcasting abilities. He can not cast defensive spells and other helpful spells like darkvision, invisibility. And why should someone cast Baleful Polymorph in a row? Maybe it is strong against one opponent, but what about a large number of weaker creatures? The big tough guy often has good saves and thanks to the tweaking of the spell DCs isn't so helpless as you describe it. A DM gives you many various situations in which you have to cast spells. Why not using your potential effectively instead of wasting with wrong spells. Why shouldn't a spellcaster be able to cast spells very versatile, other than balacing issues? I mean balacing can always be changed. D&D is an envolving game. FF1 had spell slots? Good. But Spell Points are much more what i think of being able to wield magic. But that my opinion. Tigald
Tigald 03-22-04, 02:47 PM	Look at the unlimited mana thread! I think this is somewhat crazy but i like it. It also shows that I'm not the only one who thinks that spell points are a good idea! Tigald
Belegbeth 03-23-04, 06:42 PM	If you use spell points, I would strongly recommend using the "vitalizing" option as well (according to which spellcasters are fatigued at 50 percent of their spell point total, and exhausted when they are at 25 percent of their spell point total). This keeps things balanced. Without the vitalizing option, spellcasters become too powerful. Of course, the sorcerer class become redundant; just use the "battle sorcerer" variant class instead, with the wizard spell point progression.
Lady Ishtar 03-23-04, 08:22 PM	while there was no reason to throw a dragon slave, i must agree with ms. inverse the versitility that the mp system gives the spellcasters makes them more powerful than they already are, thus making them unbalanced as is, spellcasters are the most versitile classes, they dont need any more versitility and if you think that knowing 30some spells and having to select one ahead of time for a day, think of a fighter who has to select a feat that will have to last him for the rest of his life other classes are even less versitile, since all their abilities are predetermined
TinManFan 03-25-04, 12:50 AM	Sorcs are versitile? When did that happen? I got thrown up against a gated elemental only about 5 ECLs above mine and me and my friend got our collective clocks almost cleaned. For the first time ever, I haven't gone with a sorc with 3 battle spells each spell level. And it was a blast. Teleporting, trying to distract the baddie from my friend on the wall. Sure I was down to 30 hp and taking 2d4 burning dmg a round for a while, but that's what made it fun. Oh no, the guy will use baleful polymorph. Well, here's an idea. Throw them up against things that are resistant to polymorph. There you go. Anything to teach them that MPs are not an abuse mechanism. Personally, I like the MP idea, but prolly won't use it. I'm a spell lobber at heart. I like it. The tacticals involved gives me something to think about while my friend uses his 13 nat attacks a round to crush the baddies into a fine paste. But the fun thing is looking at the spells I have left and thinking of how to use them creatively. Not just cast Polymorph all day and nothing else. The only thing I like about the point system is the metamagic. Seems like less of a loss if you're just giving up points instead of a higher level spell. Oh, I know effectively, you're doing the same, but if you can burn 5 2nd level spells and replace the chain lightening you loose, it seems like you're ahead. (And if I get a reply :censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored:ing about the math there, so help me LOL) As for Clerics, Druids and Wizards being unbalanced, that's nuts. You're going to tell me that the 13th level wizard with the 45 hp is in any way threatening to a Fighter who goes first? Slickiddy Slicsh, less one wizard (Who should've put more points into con, I know). Personaly, I believe and Cleric or Wiz or Druid who can survive a full round of fighter attacks and sneak attacks deserves to turn you into a grub worm or banish you to the Abyss for 100 yrs. And for those fighters and thieves, try putting some building points into your INT score and learn not to mess with the guy pointing a magic wand at you.
Lina_Inverse 03-25-04, 12:57 AM	Originally posted by TinManFan Oh no, the guy will use baleful polymorph. Well, here's an idea. Throw them up against things that are resistant to polymorph. There you go. Anything to teach them that MPs are not an abuse mechanism. very rarely are things immune to baleful polymorph and these can be dealt with by more standard save or dies As for Clerics, Druids and Wizards being unbalanced, that's nuts. You're going to tell me that the 13th level wizard with the 45 hp is in any way threatening to a Fighter who goes first? Slickiddy Slicsh, less one wizard (Who should've put more points into con, I know). Personaly, I believe and Cleric or Wiz or Druid who can survive a full round of fighter attacks and sneak attacks deserves to turn you into a grub worm or banish you to the Abyss for 100 yrs. And for those fighters and thieves, try putting some building points into your INT score and learn not to mess with the guy pointing a magic wand at you. you dont play the game much huh?a fighter should never touch a spell caster by 13,EVER.but then,duals dont detirmine power sheer usefullness does. fighter can fight...badly,useless. wizard can kill things and has great utility. cleric can do everything,well. druid can do more than the cleric,INCLUDEING ANYTHING A ROGUE DOES and well.
TinManFan 03-25-04, 01:16 AM	Don't play much? Only the last decade hun buns. And I know quite a bit about this lil game of yours. If a fighter can't touch your spellcaster, it's obvious they're not really trying. Magic is not the end all be all of the game. It's just the flashier part that I know the most. However, I love playing non-casters. Heck, they're more fun, do some actual role playing (You DO understand that concept, right?) other than scaring the townies with Prestidigitation. PLus any wizard is fearful of a backstabber with a fistful of dice LOL. As for things immune to poly, I was thinkin undead (Altho a nice mal-adjusted Sharn does quite nicely with 13 attacks a round at base creature type nevermind any class levels). You need Poly Any Object to even touch them (Undead, don't even THINK about the sharn). And I DO believe there's a healthy number of those types in the books. Nice way to deal with Polies (my lil name for polymorph wizards) is Turnback Amulets. Any shape changing spell goes right back where it came from. And shucks. That big dumb meatshield you cower behind can't turn you back. Oh well. Making milk and chewing your cud seems an appropriate lifestyle choice for ya. As for your idea of wizards being sthuper, try fighting in my old campaign (BAD DM) and go against Iron Golems in every room. See how useful you are then. I'd just like to know how my Crypt Lord always made his frikkin save and the fighters and assasins didn't! :rant: :angel:
Lina_Inverse 03-25-04, 01:22 AM	undead,turn undead.golems?buff and smash.i fight better than a fighter anyhow. magic is the be all end all of D&D,clerical espilly.caimpaign style may vary but standardly magic wins all encounters. fighters reaching the casters?look at the monk class,that is the only thing that can kill a caster cept a caster.even at 100 feet distanse thats 3 dominate saves you must succed to touch the mages IF YOU GO FIRST. casters past ummmm,oh hell casters are >always< the best choice.clerics and druids are >always< the best choice amoung casters LOOK at what they can do.go look at the SRD.
mouser 03-25-04, 01:37 AM	Originally posted by Tisner44 I'm just about to start a new campaign and I do like some of the variants and will use them. I'm not sure with spell points...does it make the spellcaster too powerful. Another thought one, of my players said that the wizard would lose some of the strategic nature...no longer have to be as careful with their spells. Tell what you think or if you are using any current house rules. Spell points do more than change the balance of the classes. In the case of the cleric and wizard, they complete rewrite the flavor and substance of the base classes themselves. The core cleric prays at a set time each day for spells. His deity decides to grant or not grant the spells asked for to empower her servant on the earth to do her will. The core wizard studies a book of known spells, carefully commiting to memory certain spells to be stored for potential use. Both of these classes spend (or should spend) some thought and planning in making the decision as to which spells to carry around each day. The spell point system removes that. Spell points work very well flavor-wise with the sorcerer, and quite well with the druid too. If I really wanted to go with spell points in my campaign I would probably either use it just with sorcerer or make another class that used them (BESM d20 tried it with the dynamic sorcerer. Nice class, but I don't think it has the endurance to hang at high levels as written). Mystic sounds like a nice title for a spell point caster. Hmmm... may have just found a bit of work to do :)