Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rhialto 02-23-07, 11:42 PM	First, a disclaimer: I house rule a split between dexterity/agility, and another between wisdom/perception. Dexterity represents hand-eye co-ordination, while agility is a more whole-body physical movement attribute. Wisdom represents intuition, insight, spiritual communication, and willpower; observation of your inner world in essence. Perception represents observation of the outer world. ---- So while thinking about some skills, it occurred to me that a great many could properly be considered to be governed by more than one attribute. Hold Breath was my original example, in that it requires both pure physical ability (CON), plus the mental strength to override the natural healthy response (inhalation) to low oxygen levels (WIS). I would think that what d20 Modern calls the determined hero ought to have a reasonable chance at holding her breath. So, I started searching out other skills that might reasonably be said to use multiple attributes, and i came up with this list: CHA/INT creative writing (prose, poetry, song-writing) CHA/AGI dancing CHA/DEX musical instrument (bow-string, pluck-string, keyboard, percussion) CHA/CON singing musical instrument (woodwind, brass) DEX/PER art (painting, drawing, calligraphy, pottery, sculpture) tattoo artist map making VR construction (for d20 modern campaigns) chef STR/AGI climbing CON/WIS hold breath An explanation: All the charisma-based skills either involve verbal communication, or are inherently performances which require some kind of social interaction to be appreciated. Creative writing requirting INT should, I hope, be obvious. It involves not just a knowledge of the language, but also grammar, a wide vocabulary, and knowledge of the special rules that controlled forms such as poetry have. The CON-based skills (singing and blown instruments) all require a decent set of lungs. The DEX/PER skills look like a mixed bag at first glance. However, they all need decent hand-eye co-ordination (DEX), and the nature of that work means you need to constantly examine your work as it progresses, and make subtle changes and corrections as you go (PER). Thoughts? ---- What function does having 2 attributes have? I consider the effective value of the attribute to be the lower attribute, plus 2/3 of the difference. no particular reason for that specific number. It could just as easly been the halfway point. But using either the higher or lower of the two makes for over or under-powering the skills (an admittedly useless bunch anyway, if this sample is any guide). If a player can give a convincing reason why only the higher attribute should be used for a specific task, they may do so.
Xeviat-DM 02-25-07, 03:42 PM	I'm not sure if Charisma has anything at all to do with the ability to write poetry, prose, or songs. In D&D, the Perform skill governs how well you can deliver a performance, but the Craft skill governs how well you can write a piece. There are two kinds of intelligences, if we're arguing shear mental power here (there are other intelligences, but I won't get into them): mechanical and creative. Apparently, the human genome project has located two intelligence genes that are separate from each other (having one doesn't mean you can't have the other). The mechanical intelligence gene can be traced back to when our species began creating complex tools, while the creative intelligence gene can be traced back to the renaissance. My point being, you linked charisma to a lot of things, but charisma is all about delivery. For example, having skill points in Perform (song) means you've studied music and probably have memmorized many songs, but their Charisma score determines their delivery (this is why many musicians don't write their own music; they can deliver, but they can't write). I agree that some physical skills could have two, or some other skills could have a physical and a mental, but I'm not sure how you'd adress this. Would they be combined? Averaged? Would you use the highest? Would you use certain atributes in certain circumstances? I just think the single attribute system, with synergy bonuses, works.
The_Basilisk 03-01-07, 09:16 PM	Woah O_o 2nd Edition Skills and Powers flashback. While I do agree that splitting up the attributes makes real world sense, IMO it needlessly complicates the skills system. Personally, I think that in D&D, simpler is often better even if you have to sacrifice a little reasilsm. Just my 2 CP:twocents:
Rhuxley 03-02-07, 12:50 AM	CHA/INT creative writing (prose, poetry, song-writing) This falls under Craft: Wordsmithing(RoS p131) CHA/AGI dancing CHA/DEX musical instrument (bow-string, pluck-string, keyboard, percussion) CHA/CON singing musical instrument (woodwind, brass) DEX/PER art (painting, drawing, calligraphy, pottery, sculpture) tattoo artist map making VR construction (for d20 modern campaigns) chef STR/AGI climbing CON/WIS hold breath I would pick a main stat, and grant a bonus, like maybe 1/2 secondary skill bonus
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-04-07, 10:50 PM	I think Intelligence covers art. Sure, you may have good stage presence, but that doesn't make you a good playwright. Intelligence represents genius, creativity, and that special "spark" some people have. Anyways, this looks too complicated. You'd have to refactor some of the class skills too. Just stick with RAW.