Asleep on Guard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Asleep on Guard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
PerennialRook
12-28-05, 03:49 PM One time in a game I came up with this house rule on the fly. Any character on guard at night who rolls a natural 1 falls asleep. There have been a number of times the elven ranger has come out of reverie to find a party member asleep against a tree when he should have already woken up the next shift.

-PK
Wind
12-28-05, 04:32 PM Nice, i like it.
Morotis
12-28-05, 08:06 PM I think it would work better as a fort save once ever hour, incresing after a number of hours. It is a great idea though, definatly using this one...
Thurbane
12-28-05, 09:37 PM 2 words: coffee beans! :D
PerennialRook
12-28-05, 09:59 PM The way I stumbled upon this, and why I don't use a fort save, is that something bad usually happens in my game on a natural 1. The time that I started using this was the first time I had a player roll a 1 on a spot check while on guard. And if you've ever pulled guard after a long day (as I have, with 2 years in the military) you'll know how much you fight the sleep monster. Suffice it to say the party switched to two people up when they could after this first incident.

-PK
Milburn
12-30-05, 01:27 PM It really depends how you work guard rules, and how many Spot Checks you have to make in a night. Also, some races, such as elves, are much less likely to fall asleep.
PerennialRook
12-31-05, 04:45 AM I normally only have my players roll one spot check per guard shift, whether or not there is actually anything to spot (thus reducing the effects of metagaming). As for elves, I don't think it would be unreasonable for an elf's eyes to get heavy and accidentally slip into reverie while on guard. Although if the elf has already had his rest then he is at no such risk.
FriendoftheDork
12-31-05, 08:50 AM Ok, you're a PC, an above average wannebe hero out in dangerous territory crawling with goblins and orcs, sitting in your armor on a cold night.... and you fall asleep?

Sorry, I don't buy it. PCs are elite, not average joe soldiers. They should be able to stay awake as long as they percieve danger.

However, if the PCs were in a warm and cozy inn room here's what I use:

concentration check DC 10 or you doze off, giving you -5 on all listen checks and auto fail spot checks. Fail by 5 or more and you fall asleep.
Redeemer of Ogar
01-12-06, 04:34 PM Ok, you're a PC, an above average wannebe hero out in dangerous territory crawling with goblins and orcs, sitting in your armor on a cold night.... and you fall asleep?

Sorry, I don't buy it. PCs are elite, not average joe soldiers. They should be able to stay awake as long as they percieve danger.

1) Elite soldiers fall asleep, too. Not during maneuvers, but certainly on a random guard shift. It probably won't be a sound sleep though.
2) That's the problem with random guard duty, there *is* no perceived danger most of the time.
Jerks
01-12-06, 08:38 PM I have to agree that if you think elite guys never fall asleep, you might be metagaming a bit. The average adventurer is going to pull THOUSANDS of watches during their career. They may spot something dangerous in one-hundred or so of these watches, and have to fight half of that time. Watch is boring. Anyone can fall asleep.

I like the Concentration check DC 10 to stay awake, with a +4 bonus if you have Endurance (maybe with an auto-failure on a 1). This has the side effect of making those namby-pamby wizards masters of staying awake, but they'll probably complain they need their sleep to memorize spells of some other such nonsense. :)
FriendoftheDork
01-14-06, 11:05 AM 1) Elite soldiers fall asleep, too. Not during maneuvers, but certainly on a random guard shift. It probably won't be a sound sleep though.
2) That's the problem with random guard duty, there *is* no perceived danger most of the time.

Yeah, elite soldiers can fall asleep... when they have only slept a few hours in several nights. We're talking about staying awake for a single night, which pretty much everyone can do. I for one have never fallen asleep when I wanted to stay awake, and I'm as far away from a elite soldier as you get.

So for the guard duties on dangerous missions, It's not worth having to roll dice every time.

Only when there are special circumstances, such as having been awake one or more nights, having been drinking/taking drugs, or believing themselves very safe (routine guard duty in cities) should there be a real chance of falling asleep. Other than that the chance should be less than 5% and thus not enough to justify a D20 roll.
Fargren
01-14-06, 12:40 PM I for one have never fallen asleep when I wanted to stay awake, and I'm as far away from a elite soldier as you get.

I have fallen asleep against my will a few times, having slept well the night before. It doesn't happen a lot(no more than once a month if I tried to stay awake for a long time every night, but it can happen.
Steely Glint
01-14-06, 01:01 PM I think it depends on how the person performs their guard duty. If they're just sitting against a tree, it's possible they could fall asleep. But if they're standing or sitting somewhere with no back rest (like a tree stump) it's pretty unlikely that they'd fall asleep without immediately waking up. An elite soldier in mortal danger would keep himself in a situation where he could not easily fall asleep even if he wanted to.
FriendoftheDork
01-14-06, 06:11 PM I have fallen asleep against my will a few times, having slept well the night before. It doesn't happen a lot(no more than once a month if I tried to stay awake for a long time every night, but it can happen.

I don't doubt you have, but unless you can give me statistic on how often Seals or other elites fall asleep on guard behind enemy lines in war situation, I don't think this happens often enough with the elites to warrant a D20 roll.

I do have a friend that falls easily asleep even while watching a movie at high volume, but I doubt even he would fall asleep during a life-and death operation.

And even though PCs do this alot, most of their time will still be spent in peaceful environments during downtime. PCs who adventure constantly will be so mentally fatigued that they wouldn't work at all.
TheLastOfTheFallen
01-15-06, 02:42 AM I for one have never fallen asleep when I wanted to stay awake, and I'm as far away from a elite soldier as you get.

I have fallen asleep against my will a few times, having slept well the night before. It doesn't happen a lot(no more than once a month if I tried to stay awake for a long time every night, but it can happen.

Sounds like we know who has the higher fort save, hmmmm?

I like the rule, though instead of a natural 1, I'd make it a fort save, with a modifier depending on how dangerous the situation was: You get a bonus of +4 in a high stress, high danger situation, a +2 in a medium risk situation, a +0 in routine guard duty, a -2 in a safe area, and a -4 in a secure area (the inn the party has stayed at since level 1, or at their own stronghold (unless stronghold expecting or recently under attack.))
Gilean
01-15-06, 03:54 AM I'd say it isn't worth rolling for, generally. If the situation is peaceful and PCs aren't nervous, and someone is sneaking on the, it might be worth a roll.
Yabanjin
01-15-06, 05:31 AM The way I stumbled upon this, and why I don't use a fort save, is that something bad usually happens in my game on a natural 1. The time that I started using this was the first time I had a player roll a 1 on a spot check while on guard. And if you've ever pulled guard after a long day (as I have, with 2 years in the military) you'll know how much you fight the sleep monster....

I'd like to throw in my two pence. I think that the effects of travel and movement is under-played. To discuss Fatigue and Exhaustion, please visit this thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=569120)

I suspect normal fatigue and exhaustion rarely get played out in most games. But travel itself can be a challenge as well... . There are rules in the DMG for setting CRs for things other than combat.

Perhaps, characters should take a bit more time finding and setting up camps. Sure, on Day 1 of adventuring the party can cover a great amount of distance, but after several weeks of travel - especially for typical wizards or city-raised characters - characters should likely be waking up tired.

Physical exhaustion is a tough foe. Unfortunately, I couldn't find rules for being tired after a long day of fighting, much less three or four days and of course nothing about the effects of a three week dungeon crawl with all of the associated stresses.

I like the simplified, roll a natural 1 and you fall asleep rule but perhaps it should be used only when the conditions for fatigue or exhaustion have been met. I'm more for Fort save's personally.

I think activities such as these could warrant Fatigue.
-Picking your way over hills (all day), whilst being worried about ambushes.
-Hiking through snow (with proper gear) for 8 hours (a couple hours is tough enough - let alone all day).
-Evading enemies that are effectively tracking you through marshes.
-Hustling for an hour to a battle (e.g. save the village), fighting for ten minutes straight and then organizing the survivors to remake the town's defenses...

I also think that characters that have suffered damage should be extra tired as well, but again I couldn't find the rules.

Below are some of the conditions of Fatigue and Exhaustion.

The online SRD I've quoted from can be found here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html)

Fatigued: A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.
Exhausted: An exhausted character moves at half speed and takes a –6 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. After 1 hour of complete rest, an exhausted character becomes fatigued. A fatigued character becomes exhausted by doing something else that would normally cause fatigue.
Forced March: In a day of normal walking, a character walks for 8 hours. The rest of the daylight time is spent making and breaking camp, resting, and eating.
A character can walk for more than 8 hours in a day by making a forced march. For each hour of marching beyond 8 hours, a Constitution check (DC 10, +2 per extra hour) is required. If the check fails, the character takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from a forced march becomes fatigued. Eliminating the nonlethal damage also eliminates the fatigue. It’s possible for a character to march into unconsciousness by pushing himself too hard.HEAT DANGERS
Heat deals nonlethal damage that cannot be recovered until the character gets cooled off (reaches shade, survives until nightfall, gets doused in water, is targeted by endure elements, and so forth). Once rendered unconscious through the accumulation of nonlethal damage, the character begins to take lethal damage at the same rate.
A character in very hot conditions (above 90° F) must make a Fortitude saving throw each hour (DC 15, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Characters wearing heavy clothing or armor of any sort take a –4 penalty on their saves. A character with the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and may be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well (see the skill description). Characters reduced to unconsciousness begin taking lethal damage (1d4 points per hour).
In severe heat (above 110° F), a character must make a Fortitude save once every 10 minutes (DC 15, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Characters wearing heavy clothing or armor of any sort take a –4 penalty on their saves. A character with the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and may be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well. Characters reduced to unconsciousness begin taking lethal damage (1d4 points per each 10-minute period).
A character who takes any nonlethal damage from heat exposure now suffers from heatstroke and is fatigued. These penalties end when the character recovers the nonlethal damage she took from the heat. COLD DANGERS
Cold and exposure deal nonlethal damage to the victim. This nonlethal damage cannot be recovered until the character gets out of the cold and warms up again. Once a character is rendered unconscious through the accumulation of nonlethal damage, the cold and exposure begins to deal lethal damage at the same rate.
An unprotected character in cold weather (below 40° F) must make a Fortitude save each hour (DC 15, + 1 per previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. A character who has the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and may be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well (see the skill Description).
In conditions of severe cold or exposure (below 0° F), an unprotected character must make a Fortitude save once every 10 minutes (DC 15, +1 per previous check), taking 1d6 points of nonlethal damage on each failed save. A character who has the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and may be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well (see the skill description). Characters wearing winter clothing only need check once per hour for cold and exposure damage.
A character who takes any nonlethal damage from cold or exposure is beset by frostbite or hypothermia (treat her as fatigued). These penalties end when the character recovers the nonlethal damage she took from the cold and exposure.
STARVATION AND THIRST
Characters might find themselves without food or water and with no means to obtain them. In normal climates, Medium characters need at least a gallon of fluids and about a pound of decent food per day to avoid starvation. (Small characters need half as much.) In very hot climates, characters need two or three times as much water to avoid dehydration.
A character can go without water for 1 day plus a number of hours equal to his Constitution score. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each hour (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.
A character can go without food for 3 days, in growing discomfort. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each day (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.
Characters who have taken nonlethal damage from lack of food or water are fatigued. Nonlethal damage from thirst or starvation cannot be recovered until the character gets food or water, as needed—not even magic that restores hit points heals this damage.
FriendoftheDork
01-16-06, 07:52 AM Sounds like we know who has the higher fort save, hmmmm?

I like the rule, though instead of a natural 1, I'd make it a fort save, with a modifier depending on how dangerous the situation was: You get a bonus of +4 in a high stress, high danger situation, a +2 in a medium risk situation, a +0 in routine guard duty, a -2 in a safe area, and a -4 in a secure area (the inn the party has stayed at since level 1, or at their own stronghold (unless stronghold expecting or recently under attack.))

Ugh... I'm unfit, have little stamina, overweight, eat poorly.... no I don't think my "fortitude save" is all that ;)

Some people are more prone to fall asleep easily. I simply don't, which also means I have a hard time sleeping when I want it as well, usually 30m-1h before I sleep after getting to bed.

But basically my point is that you should only want to require checks/saves against sleep if there are special circumstances, such as the PCs having forced marched, getting less than 8h sleep every day, been fighting alot or being emotionally fatigued, been drinking, having performed hard labor, believing you're safe, comfortable environment etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PerennialRook 12-28-05, 03:49 PM	One time in a game I came up with this house rule on the fly. Any character on guard at night who rolls a natural 1 falls asleep. There have been a number of times the elven ranger has come out of reverie to find a party member asleep against a tree when he should have already woken up the next shift. -PK
Wind 12-28-05, 04:32 PM	Nice, i like it.
Morotis 12-28-05, 08:06 PM	I think it would work better as a fort save once ever hour, incresing after a number of hours. It is a great idea though, definatly using this one...
Thurbane 12-28-05, 09:37 PM	2 words: coffee beans! :D
PerennialRook 12-28-05, 09:59 PM	The way I stumbled upon this, and why I don't use a fort save, is that something bad usually happens in my game on a natural 1. The time that I started using this was the first time I had a player roll a 1 on a spot check while on guard. And if you've ever pulled guard after a long day (as I have, with 2 years in the military) you'll know how much you fight the sleep monster. Suffice it to say the party switched to two people up when they could after this first incident. -PK
Milburn 12-30-05, 01:27 PM	It really depends how you work guard rules, and how many Spot Checks you have to make in a night. Also, some races, such as elves, are much less likely to fall asleep.
PerennialRook 12-31-05, 04:45 AM	I normally only have my players roll one spot check per guard shift, whether or not there is actually anything to spot (thus reducing the effects of metagaming). As for elves, I don't think it would be unreasonable for an elf's eyes to get heavy and accidentally slip into reverie while on guard. Although if the elf has already had his rest then he is at no such risk.
FriendoftheDork 12-31-05, 08:50 AM	Ok, you're a PC, an above average wannebe hero out in dangerous territory crawling with goblins and orcs, sitting in your armor on a cold night.... and you fall asleep? Sorry, I don't buy it. PCs are elite, not average joe soldiers. They should be able to stay awake as long as they percieve danger. However, if the PCs were in a warm and cozy inn room here's what I use: concentration check DC 10 or you doze off, giving you -5 on all listen checks and auto fail spot checks. Fail by 5 or more and you fall asleep.
Redeemer of Ogar 01-12-06, 04:34 PM	Ok, you're a PC, an above average wannebe hero out in dangerous territory crawling with goblins and orcs, sitting in your armor on a cold night.... and you fall asleep? Sorry, I don't buy it. PCs are elite, not average joe soldiers. They should be able to stay awake as long as they percieve danger. 1) Elite soldiers fall asleep, too. Not during maneuvers, but certainly on a random guard shift. It probably won't be a sound sleep though. 2) That's the problem with random guard duty, there is no perceived danger most of the time.
Jerks 01-12-06, 08:38 PM	I have to agree that if you think elite guys never fall asleep, you might be metagaming a bit. The average adventurer is going to pull THOUSANDS of watches during their career. They may spot something dangerous in one-hundred or so of these watches, and have to fight half of that time. Watch is boring. Anyone can fall asleep. I like the Concentration check DC 10 to stay awake, with a +4 bonus if you have Endurance (maybe with an auto-failure on a 1). This has the side effect of making those namby-pamby wizards masters of staying awake, but they'll probably complain they need their sleep to memorize spells of some other such nonsense. :)
FriendoftheDork 01-14-06, 11:05 AM	1) Elite soldiers fall asleep, too. Not during maneuvers, but certainly on a random guard shift. It probably won't be a sound sleep though. 2) That's the problem with random guard duty, there is no perceived danger most of the time. Yeah, elite soldiers can fall asleep... when they have only slept a few hours in several nights. We're talking about staying awake for a single night, which pretty much everyone can do. I for one have never fallen asleep when I wanted to stay awake, and I'm as far away from a elite soldier as you get. So for the guard duties on dangerous missions, It's not worth having to roll dice every time. Only when there are special circumstances, such as having been awake one or more nights, having been drinking/taking drugs, or believing themselves very safe (routine guard duty in cities) should there be a real chance of falling asleep. Other than that the chance should be less than 5% and thus not enough to justify a D20 roll.
Fargren 01-14-06, 12:40 PM	I for one have never fallen asleep when I wanted to stay awake, and I'm as far away from a elite soldier as you get. I have fallen asleep against my will a few times, having slept well the night before. It doesn't happen a lot(no more than once a month if I tried to stay awake for a long time every night, but it can happen.
Steely Glint 01-14-06, 01:01 PM	I think it depends on how the person performs their guard duty. If they're just sitting against a tree, it's possible they could fall asleep. But if they're standing or sitting somewhere with no back rest (like a tree stump) it's pretty unlikely that they'd fall asleep without immediately waking up. An elite soldier in mortal danger would keep himself in a situation where he could not easily fall asleep even if he wanted to.
FriendoftheDork 01-14-06, 06:11 PM	I have fallen asleep against my will a few times, having slept well the night before. It doesn't happen a lot(no more than once a month if I tried to stay awake for a long time every night, but it can happen. I don't doubt you have, but unless you can give me statistic on how often Seals or other elites fall asleep on guard behind enemy lines in war situation, I don't think this happens often enough with the elites to warrant a D20 roll. I do have a friend that falls easily asleep even while watching a movie at high volume, but I doubt even he would fall asleep during a life-and death operation. And even though PCs do this alot, most of their time will still be spent in peaceful environments during downtime. PCs who adventure constantly will be so mentally fatigued that they wouldn't work at all.
TheLastOfTheFallen 01-15-06, 02:42 AM	I for one have never fallen asleep when I wanted to stay awake, and I'm as far away from a elite soldier as you get. I have fallen asleep against my will a few times, having slept well the night before. It doesn't happen a lot(no more than once a month if I tried to stay awake for a long time every night, but it can happen. Sounds like we know who has the higher fort save, hmmmm? I like the rule, though instead of a natural 1, I'd make it a fort save, with a modifier depending on how dangerous the situation was: You get a bonus of +4 in a high stress, high danger situation, a +2 in a medium risk situation, a +0 in routine guard duty, a -2 in a safe area, and a -4 in a secure area (the inn the party has stayed at since level 1, or at their own stronghold (unless stronghold expecting or recently under attack.))
Gilean 01-15-06, 03:54 AM	I'd say it isn't worth rolling for, generally. If the situation is peaceful and PCs aren't nervous, and someone is sneaking on the, it might be worth a roll.
Yabanjin 01-15-06, 05:31 AM	The way I stumbled upon this, and why I don't use a fort save, is that something bad usually happens in my game on a natural 1. The time that I started using this was the first time I had a player roll a 1 on a spot check while on guard. And if you've ever pulled guard after a long day (as I have, with 2 years in the military) you'll know how much you fight the sleep monster.... I'd like to throw in my two pence. I think that the effects of travel and movement is under-played. To discuss Fatigue and Exhaustion, please visit this thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=569120) I suspect normal fatigue and exhaustion rarely get played out in most games. But travel itself can be a challenge as well... . There are rules in the DMG for setting CRs for things other than combat. Perhaps, characters should take a bit more time finding and setting up camps. Sure, on Day 1 of adventuring the party can cover a great amount of distance, but after several weeks of travel - especially for typical wizards or city-raised characters - characters should likely be waking up tired. Physical exhaustion is a tough foe. Unfortunately, I couldn't find rules for being tired after a long day of fighting, much less three or four days and of course nothing about the effects of a three week dungeon crawl with all of the associated stresses. I like the simplified, roll a natural 1 and you fall asleep rule but perhaps it should be used only when the conditions for fatigue or exhaustion have been met. I'm more for Fort save's personally. I think activities such as these could warrant Fatigue. -Picking your way over hills (all day), whilst being worried about ambushes. -Hiking through snow (with proper gear) for 8 hours (a couple hours is tough enough - let alone all day). -Evading enemies that are effectively tracking you through marshes. -Hustling for an hour to a battle (e.g. save the village), fighting for ten minutes straight and then organizing the survivors to remake the town's defenses... I also think that characters that have suffered damage should be extra tired as well, but again I couldn't find the rules. Below are some of the conditions of Fatigue and Exhaustion. The online SRD I've quoted from can be found here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) Fatigued: A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued. Exhausted: An exhausted character moves at half speed and takes a –6 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. After 1 hour of complete rest, an exhausted character becomes fatigued. A fatigued character becomes exhausted by doing something else that would normally cause fatigue. Forced March: In a day of normal walking, a character walks for 8 hours. The rest of the daylight time is spent making and breaking camp, resting, and eating. A character can walk for more than 8 hours in a day by making a forced march. For each hour of marching beyond 8 hours, a Constitution check (DC 10, +2 per extra hour) is required. If the check fails, the character takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from a forced march becomes fatigued. Eliminating the nonlethal damage also eliminates the fatigue. It’s possible for a character to march into unconsciousness by pushing himself too hard.HEAT DANGERS Heat deals nonlethal damage that cannot be recovered until the character gets cooled off (reaches shade, survives until nightfall, gets doused in water, is targeted by endure elements, and so forth). Once rendered unconscious through the accumulation of nonlethal damage, the character begins to take lethal damage at the same rate. A character in very hot conditions (above 90° F) must make a Fortitude saving throw each hour (DC 15, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Characters wearing heavy clothing or armor of any sort take a –4 penalty on their saves. A character with the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and may be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well (see the skill description). Characters reduced to unconsciousness begin taking lethal damage (1d4 points per hour). In severe heat (above 110° F), a character must make a Fortitude save once every 10 minutes (DC 15, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Characters wearing heavy clothing or armor of any sort take a –4 penalty on their saves. A character with the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and may be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well. Characters reduced to unconsciousness begin taking lethal damage (1d4 points per each 10-minute period). A character who takes any nonlethal damage from heat exposure now suffers from heatstroke and is fatigued. These penalties end when the character recovers the nonlethal damage she took from the heat. COLD DANGERS Cold and exposure deal nonlethal damage to the victim. This nonlethal damage cannot be recovered until the character gets out of the cold and warms up again. Once a character is rendered unconscious through the accumulation of nonlethal damage, the cold and exposure begins to deal lethal damage at the same rate. An unprotected character in cold weather (below 40° F) must make a Fortitude save each hour (DC 15, + 1 per previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. A character who has the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and may be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well (see the skill Description). In conditions of severe cold or exposure (below 0° F), an unprotected character must make a Fortitude save once every 10 minutes (DC 15, +1 per previous check), taking 1d6 points of nonlethal damage on each failed save. A character who has the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and may be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well (see the skill description). Characters wearing winter clothing only need check once per hour for cold and exposure damage. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from cold or exposure is beset by frostbite or hypothermia (treat her as fatigued). These penalties end when the character recovers the nonlethal damage she took from the cold and exposure. STARVATION AND THIRST Characters might find themselves without food or water and with no means to obtain them. In normal climates, Medium characters need at least a gallon of fluids and about a pound of decent food per day to avoid starvation. (Small characters need half as much.) In very hot climates, characters need two or three times as much water to avoid dehydration. A character can go without water for 1 day plus a number of hours equal to his Constitution score. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each hour (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. A character can go without food for 3 days, in growing discomfort. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each day (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Characters who have taken nonlethal damage from lack of food or water are fatigued. Nonlethal damage from thirst or starvation cannot be recovered until the character gets food or water, as needed—not even magic that restores hit points heals this damage.
FriendoftheDork 01-16-06, 07:52 AM	Sounds like we know who has the higher fort save, hmmmm? I like the rule, though instead of a natural 1, I'd make it a fort save, with a modifier depending on how dangerous the situation was: You get a bonus of +4 in a high stress, high danger situation, a +2 in a medium risk situation, a +0 in routine guard duty, a -2 in a safe area, and a -4 in a secure area (the inn the party has stayed at since level 1, or at their own stronghold (unless stronghold expecting or recently under attack.)) Ugh... I'm unfit, have little stamina, overweight, eat poorly.... no I don't think my "fortitude save" is all that ;) Some people are more prone to fall asleep easily. I simply don't, which also means I have a hard time sleeping when I want it as well, usually 30m-1h before I sleep after getting to bed. But basically my point is that you should only want to require checks/saves against sleep if there are special circumstances, such as the PCs having forced marched, getting less than 8h sleep every day, been fighting alot or being emotionally fatigued, been drinking, having performed hard labor, believing you're safe, comfortable environment etc.