Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DevaNinja 02-20-04, 11:10 AM	What would be a good replacement for the bards bardic music ability. I'm wanting to make a charcter with the bards skills, Bardic knowledge and spells, but not the music ability. any suggestions?
assimonsolar 02-21-04, 12:05 AM	I think the bardic music ability is the base of the bard. The classe you want to play is a loremaster (DMG)
DevaNinja 02-21-04, 09:56 AM	No, I don't want the loremaster. I previous incarnations the Bard was a Jack-of-All-Trades, Master of none. Not all bards' emphasis was on music like it is in the 3rd edition. I wanted either a more roguish bard or warrior type bard, more of an active one instead of a passive one. I though it may be a fair trade for the rogues uncanny dodge abilities, but thought that the bard is giving up more than he gains? perhaps sneak attack or favored enemies?
assimonsolar 10-28-04, 09:36 PM	You can trade every bardic music ability for a feats or an ability for another class.
Panqui 10-28-04, 10:11 PM	I also would not consider Loremaster as a replacement for Bard. Bards get their knowledge benefits starting at level 1. You have to wait a number of levels before you can become a Loremaster and then begin benefitting from the knowledge. Dragon magazine recently had a small article on Bardic flaws. One of their suggestions was to remove all the party enhancing effects of bardic music (inspire courage, inspire greatness, etc.) in exchange for an extra feat at level 1. This Bard doesn't give up bardic music completely, but its usefulness is reduced enough to warrant an extra feat.
Knucklehead 11-01-04, 02:02 PM	How about one of the following: -for each music ability you lose, you gain a +2 bonus to Bardic Knowledge. -at 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18 you gain a bonus feat. -add +1 to your spells per day per level. For example a 2nd level Bard would have 3+1 0-level and 0+1 1-level. -Favored Terrain, since they travel from place to place. That being said, you could probably dump the music aspect and still be fine as a PC. Bards get a lot of stuff: -two good saves -spell casting, including healing -no ASF in light armor -6+int skills
Knucklehead 11-01-04, 09:37 PM	Just got my hands on UA. They have a variant bard called the Bardic Sage. Here's the breakdown: Keep all the normal bard abilities except as noted: Alignment- Must be NG/N/NE. If they ever become Lawful or Chaotic they cannot gain levels in the Bardic Sage, but retain their abilities. Saves- Good Will, Poor Fort and Ref Spellcasting- -add one divination spell per spell level to you spells known. For example a level 1 bard knows 4 0-level spells + 1 0-level divination spell. The spells per day do not change. - to learn or cast spells use Int instead of Cha. Bonus spells and save DC's are based off Cha. - add the following spells to the bard spell list: 1st- Detect Chaos/Evil/Law/Good 2nd- Zone of Truth 3rd- Arcane Sight 4th- Analyze Dweomer (lowered from 6th), Sending 5th- Contact other Planes, Greater Scrying (lowered from 6th) 6th- True Seeing, Vision Bardic Knowledge- Gain +2 to the bardic knowledge check Bardic Music- Inspire Courage/Greatness/Heroics lasts 3rnd instead of 5 rnd after you stop hearing the music. -------------- Convince your DM to drop the split ability scores for your spells and keep INT only. It's less complicated and it makes sense for a sage to rely on INT rather than CHA. Also talk him into giving you one additional spell known per level for a complete drop of your bardic music. This will give you more spell versatility at the cost of an ability you don't want in the first place.
m15a 11-02-04, 11:15 AM	How about one of the following: -for each music ability you lose, you gain a +2 bonus to Bardic Knowledge. -at 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18 you gain a bonus feat. -add +1 to your spells per day per level. For example a 2nd level Bard would have 3+1 0-level and 0+1 1-level. -Favored Terrain, since they travel from place to place. this seems like a lot. the bonus feats alone are a significant addition. only the fighter gets bonus feats more often and those are restricted to certain ones. and that's all they get.
Knucklehead 11-02-04, 12:02 PM	Just to point out it would be one of the following not everything. And you could easily restrict the type of feats available. If you compare the bonus of a feat to the bonus of the music ability it is relative. The bardic music offers some potent stuff. Limit the type of feats to spell or skill related effects. He said he wanted the bard to be focused on magic and knowledge. Perhaps for each feat, he gets Skill Mastery for a specific skill? What would you offer as a replacement?
Iry 11-03-04, 04:06 PM	There's a third party feat called Awe Inspiring that lets you use all the bardic music abilities without saying a single word, and merely by sheer force of presence. This is similar to the sub-vocalization feat without the silly caveat that you MUST sing. With awe inspiring, there is no singing, period. You're still very noticable as a result of being awe inspiring, of course. Personally I love the feat, because I adore Bards from a mechanical point of view, and what they can bring to a party of adventurers, but I seriously dislike the notion that music can do anything magickal at all.
DevaNinja 11-03-04, 05:41 PM	There's a third party feat called Awe Inspiring that lets you use all the bardic music abilities without saying a single word, and merely by sheer force of presence. This is similar to the sub-vocalization feat without the silly caveat that you MUST sing. With awe inspiring, there is no singing, period. You're still very noticable as a result of being awe inspiring, of course. DO you know what third party book this is in?