| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Tsathoggua12-13-06, 08:20 PM | I don't really know what my favorite is, but I'd love to hear yours. Some of my favs include: Ninja/Rogue (yes this does work. I don't know the rules, but gestalt is meant to be overpowered) Scout/Highland Stalker Warlock/Anything |
| memberZ12-14-06, 12:04 AM | It's Warblade/Psion Also of note Favored Soul/Cleric Warlock/Barbarian Cleric/Psy Warrior Cleric/Druid And for shear cheese Monk20/Warblade10/Warhulk10 |
| X-Codes12-14-06, 03:19 AM | Ninja/Rogue (yes this does work. I don't know the rules, but gestalt is meant to be overpowered) It may be legal, but it still sucks. As for me, I'm a fan of Incarnum, so I'd probably do something along the lines of Soulborn//Swordsage, Psion/Incarnate/Soul Manifester//Warblade, or Barbarian/Totemist/Totem Rager//Swordsage. |
| strenoth12-14-06, 03:46 AM | For pure flavor, I kind of like Crusader/paladin |
| Morwen12-14-06, 04:13 AM | And for shear cheese Monk20/Warblade10/Warhulk10 I also like Fighter 20//Barbarian 10/War Hulk 10.. Just a shame you have to be large to take the War Hulk class :/ |
| Mindolin12-14-06, 04:06 PM | Come on, everyone knows that the best class is a Monk and the UA Fighter who gives up feats for Sneak Attacks. Think about it, full base attack bonus, and once they get to level 20 or so, flank enemy, Flurry of Blows for about 6 attacks, each one that hits (very likely) deals 2d10+Str Mod+10d6 Sneak Attack. Very fun. Also, though, the Warblade/Rogue. Full base attack bonus, take Heroic Surge and go two weapon fighter, heroic surge to use Girallon Windmill Fleshrip, coupled with A Moment in Time, or whatever it was, you are almost assured an additional 20d6 damage, plus around 16 attacks from two speed scimitars. 4 attacks good hand, 3 off hand, +1 to each for speed weapons, doubled for taking two full round actions. Flank for an additional 160d6 if you are lucky. It gets even better at Epic. Dervish, enough said. |
| obrysii12-14-06, 04:24 PM | I have found that Monster Progression on one side makes some very potentent characters. Particularly ones that gain spellcasting. Black Ethergaunt 20//Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 10/Geomancer 7+ makes a wonderful build. As does Werebear 9/Warshaper 4/Warhulk 7//Monk 20 |
| Malkieri12-14-06, 06:47 PM | I've thoroughly enjoyed my Duskblade/Rogue. d8 HD, Best Base Attack, All Best Saves, Best Skill Points. You can still wear that armor and cast, and there's nothing like sneak attack+Blade of Blood or a Quickcast True Strike to open things up. You get all the goodies of the rogue+all the goodies of a more powerful melee class+all the goodies of a lesser caster. |
| larry_the_titan12-15-06, 10:47 PM | Has anyone thought of trying Hexblade//Monk. It would give you average HD and Skill points and only 4 levels of spells but you would get perfect saves, +Cha Mod to all saves, Evasion and Mettle, Monk AC bonus, good bab, a Full flurry and up to 2d10 damage. While you may still not be a great front line fighter but you will not even have to worry about ever being hit by a spell and your AC will still be up there like any monk. What is not to like. |
| Kiirdon_of_Aundair12-16-06, 03:25 AM | Sorcerer/Paladin.Immense power in all respects Sorcerer/Favored soul. Healing Fighting and spellslinging all in one Barbarian/Fighter-though mostly overlapping bonus feats aid the mastery of the Axe Scout/Fighter-Supreme bowman Divine Mind/Marshal/Dragon Shaman/ Dragon Lord-Aura master Beguiler/Shadowhand -stealth supremacy |
| strenoth12-16-06, 03:45 AM | Has anyone thought of trying Hexblade//Monk. It would give you average HD and Skill points and only 4 levels of spells but you would get perfect saves, +Cha Mod to all saves, Evasion and Mettle, Monk AC bonus, good bab, a Full flurry and up to 2d10 damage. While you may still not be a great front line fighter but you will not even have to worry about ever being hit by a spell and your AC will still be up there like any monk. What is not to like. Mmm, delicious... Monk20 // Hexblade3/fighter2/Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 10/[X]5 [X] has several potentials. Level 10 of IotDM qualifies you for Warshaper. You could start gaining levels in Tatooed Monk. Personally, I'm fond of the original version of Reaping Mauler: http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/prestige_classes_reaping_mauler.htm If you want to go the Evil route, we have Disciple of Mephistopheles (probably better going Pyro Kineticist if you want fire damage) Mortal Hunter if an outsider (Add WIS To Saves VS Spells Too! But only vs mortals) You qualify as an outsider at level 21 Soul eater if non-humanoid (which BTW, makes for a very interesting option if you go epic, as of level 21, you are an outsider) Your army of Wights begins at class level 9 Warrior of Darkness could be very nice, especially if you have a high CHA If the alignment of a LN super-monk shifts to good, you could go for initiate of Pistis Sophia (you have from level 3 to level 9 to go from LN to exalted Good, possible, if potentially cheesy. At level 9, you need to start taking exalted feats). No penalty for alignment change in hexblade. But the class isn't all that great anyway. Really, if you become exalted, just go with a few select feats, or go VoP, the monkish class isn't all that great in this combination |
| Kiirdon_of_Aundair12-16-06, 04:22 AM | In the normal rules, you could take a single level in rogue, ninja, Lurk, warlock, spellthief, assassin etc. with the feats: Guerilla Scout, Combat Exp. Imp Feint you have a massive damage output, but you can't hit. Now imagine in Gestalt combining all that with Fighter and a Greatsword Base at 6th : Fort+5, Refl+10, Will + 4, Ba +6, 37 hp, 8d6 dmg Good Ac etc |
| Kiirdon_of_Aundair12-16-06, 04:24 AM | That's per attack Or you can go Warlock/Warblade and Hideous blow and a Greatsword(And if you want it really deadly Monkey grip, which increases it another d6.This also applies to the previous build) |
| claypigeons12-16-06, 09:13 AM | That's per attack Or you can go Warlock/Warblade and Hideous blow and a Greatsword(And if you want it really deadly Monkey grip, which increases it another d6.This also applies to the previous build) No, if you want to make it deadly, you take power attack. Monkey grip sucks. In every form. In every build. It's a subpar feat to fool people into thinking they need to waste one in order to gain a FLAVOR advantage. .... -2 to hit.. for 1-6 damage. 3.5 average. Let's look at power attack... same penalty, -2... for +4 damage. :rolleyes: Back on topic... I really like Warblade//Psion, as was posted before. Swordsage//Cleric is kind of fun. Sure you "only" get medium BAB...but you're a cleric. It really doesnt matter for you. I woulnt mind trying Swordsage//Psy-War at some point... could be fun. Nice Wis synergy as with cleric... though the BAB thing hurts a little for gestalt... |
| Vengeblade12-16-06, 09:58 AM | I DMed a game with a player who had a Golaith Barbarian/Incarnate. He was insane, he could power attack like no other, boost his AC throught the roof, and do tons of other random incarnate tricks. By level 10, each swing of his hammer hit for about 45-70 points of damage on a non-crit. Now he was impressive on his own, but another character really helped him make things easy. He was a catfolk warmage/sorcerer/bonded summoner(earth) who focused all his sorcerer spells on buff spells. The party healer was a cleric/healer/radiant servent of pelor. Those three cound take on anything. When they were level 15, they killed a black great wyrm. NOt the smartest sragon, but no where near dumb. No one had suprise, but still the dragon should've put a major dent in them. After the fight, they only seemed like they had a bad workd out day. |
| Fallenangel35912-16-06, 05:53 PM | I always thought 20 crusader, with the other side being 20 levels of templates with level adjustments... thats horribly cruel pixie4 half fiend4 half white dragon3 corrupted0 ghost5 half clay golem0 shade4 (make sure you get +1 ghosttouch gauntlets, then you are back in business because you can touch things again, and can manipulate object. Recommendation, get the gauntlets made of glassteel, adamantine, or riverine.) d12 hit die Invisiblity dr 10/magic, silver, and cold iron (impossible to bypass) Immunity to piercing, slashing, cold, acid. Undead with turn resistance 4, with 20 hit dice. Incorpereality Flyspeed of 80(perfect) Darkvision, and lowlight vision once per day breathweapon large boost to attributes Due to only 4 attributes, you can have 14/14/14/14 as your starting stats with 25 point buy, and 16/14/14/14 with 28 point. small size large natural armor 10 dr electicity, and fire spell immunity. you become a construct, outsider, and incorpereal undead, all at the same time |
| Fallenangel35912-16-06, 06:03 PM | If you want to be a serious arcane gish... you could try crusader/warlock, and get maximize spellike ability at level 6, and empower spell like ability at 9, and with at 11 aura of chaos, any maxinum value on dice lets you reroll an additional die... so with 6d6 at level 11, thats 6 maximized dice, so additional 6d6 added, and since its empowered, thats 12d6 empowered, for an additional 6d6, so 12d6+36, and on average 2 of those will maximize, for another 2d6 so it does approximately 85 damage, on a hideous blow, without counting weapon damage with base stats of 14 11 14 10 10 14, thats +3 on a morning star wielded with 2 hands... so average damage of 92.5 at level 11, with a hideous blow, without using any crusader maneuvers, and just 1 stance hey... aren't really tiny 1 damage weapons considered 1d1s? thats always maxed value... infinite damage! |
| Vengeblade12-16-06, 08:06 PM | If you want to be a serious arcane gish... you could try crusader/warlock, and get maximize spellike ability at level 6, and empower spell like ability at 9, and with at 11 aura of chaos, any maxinum value on dice lets you reroll an additional die... so with 6d6 at level 11, thats 6 maximized dice, so additional 6d6 added, and since its empowered, thats 12d6 empowered, for an additional 6d6, so 12d6+36, and on average 2 of those will maximize, for another 2d6 so it does approximately 85 damage, on a hideous blow, without counting weapon damage with base stats of 14 11 14 10 10 14, thats +3 on a morning star wielded with 2 hands... so average damage of 92.5 at level 11, with a hideous blow, without using any crusader maneuvers, and just 1 stance hey... aren't really tiny 1 damage weapons considered 1d1s? thats always maxed value... infinite damage! As far as I can tell, you only get to reroll the dice that you actually roll max damage on. If you never roll, then it can't be rerolled. There is also no D1s. I wish. |
| Yorath_theWolf12-16-06, 08:39 PM | don't know about it being the _best_ combo but I'm rather fond of these: Ranger/Soulknife or heck even Ranger20/Soulknife10/Soulbow10 Ranger/Bard: I rather like this one because of the appeal of a TWFing right along with the bardic feat Snowflake Wardance, needless to say I'm REAL fond of this 'dancer' build. and finally Ranger/Swordsage. and yeah, I'm quite possibly overly fond of rangers, sue me :P. |
| aramilcaelvan12-16-06, 08:40 PM | May not be the strongest, but don't underestimate Fighter//Knight/Cavalier//Purple Dragon Knight The iconic knight in shining armor. I also like: Fighter//Scout/Dread Commando//Whatever |
| Merryadocc12-17-06, 09:48 PM | Commoner20/Noble20! You are the son of someone in the royal family after some tryst at a tavern and have been raised on a farm, you have a pet pig. |
| Xavon12-17-06, 11:17 PM | Duskblade/Favored Soul - Full BAB, Arcane and Divine spells. And you even get WF and WS along the way. Warlock/Ninja - Become invisible to get Sudden Strike damage on your Eldritch Blasts. Warlock/Fighter - get the most from your Eldrith Blast with full BAB, GWF/GWS, Improved Critical, plus some archer type feats. Barbarian/Warlock - Use the Warlock's buffs, plus their DR and Fast Healing to make your Barbarian truly frightening (can you say invisible, Str draining, enraged Barbarian? |
| Evillain12-17-06, 11:58 PM | Gestalt has 20 dual levels, so thats' 40 levels. why are all you guys taking like 2 classes and one prc? I would put my main gestalt build on here, but my gestalt game is very secretive. so i'll put something else i tought of. sorcerer 6 /eldritch knight4/ jade pheonix mage 10/ swordsage 20 take the feats and maneuvers as you like, you can't go wrong here. This is a fun build that anyone can tune to his liking. I personally like the Human Half-Nymph (dragon 313 p.95), with her beauty racial feature, using her many many spell slots to enhance her stances. and jade pheonix mage is just abusive. Orc dual caster (sort of) sorcerer 5/Geomancer 10/frenzied berzerker 5/ druid 5/barbarian 15/ what? geomancer??? THAT SUXORS!!, ho yeah? check this: Race orc. what? orc dual spell caster... THAT SUXORS!!, ho yeah check this: Feat: orc descent (dragon magazine) it adds nice spells to your sorcerer spell list: including divine power. so you buff yourself with all your sorcerer spells (yes you are a sorcerer with buff spells!!!) and then as soon as your within 600 feet of an enemy, you can charge him and full attack. With your frenzied rage and buff bonuses i cannot even begin to calculate the damage output. The build is mainly based on drifts: lvl 3: Lion claws (2 rake attacks 1d4) lvl 4: Leopard pounce (charge + full attack) lvl 4: Bear's (grab free action on hit) or Wolf's trip (trip free action on hit) lvl 5: Bat's wings (fly speed 60 feet) lvl 5: Move like a cheetah (charge once per hour at 10x your normal speed) so yeah, basically you charge at 600 feet, flying, raging, buffed, shape changed, grabbing (or tripping). you should down most people in one charge, especially if you take feats to improve your shape changing or charge. |
| Bard-of-all-trades12-18-06, 03:22 AM | My favorites are: Cleric/Monk: It's simple and straightforward. Both classes' primary ability score is Wisdom. You won't need to worry about spending money on armor or weapons because of the Monk abilities. You'll have spells from the Cleric abilities to take care of anything you can't talk or fight your way out of normally. This gestalt would practically surpass a paladin or blackguard. Cleric/Druid: Have Obad-hai as your deity and take Earth and Fire domains and you get to Turn Undead as well as Air and Water Elementals in addition to Rebuking Earth and Fire Elementals. Add in Spontaneous Cures and Summon Nature's Ally and TWO, count them 1 - 2, spell progressions. Take Zen Archery and Divine Feats to flavor and this is one mean, green eco-machine to reckon with. And best of all, you don't need to take any other classes to make this cool/viscious/nasty/bad to the bone/etc/etc. Ranger/Warlock: Work nice for meshing class abilities, especially Eldritch Blast and Archery Combat Style. Can't go wrong with full BAB, d8 for HD, all good Saves, and 6+Int for skills either. Paladin/Warmage: Charisma drives this bad boy on to bigger spells and higher Divine Grace. If you take Battle Caster, you can almost get as much AC as a standard Paladin. Full BAB and saves like a Cleric make this combo "soar with the angels". Ranger/Scout: Choose your flavor with the Ranger and supplement it with the bonus feats from the Scout. With the increased speed from the Scout, your Ranger track is blazing fast. Both rely on Dexterity for the PBS or TWF trees. And the fact that Scouts get 8 + Int for skills pretty much makes up for only having the Ranger's saves (in my opinion). Monk/Ninja: Both need good Wisdom and Dexterity. They each have class abilities that work well together and their flavor blends nicely. Add in the fact that the Sudden Attack fits so well with Flurry of Blows and increasing Unarmed Damage, and this is one deadly character. Swashbuckler/Wizard: Pretty much like the Paladin/Warmage earlier, this one just leans on Intelligence to carry the load. It has more buffing options than that combo, especially with judicious feat choices such as Still Spell, Silent Spell, and Spell Mastery. Some fun ideas to think about could be: Monk/Psion: make it human and take the feat that lets you use Intelligence in place of Wisdom for the Monk abilities and you can do some serious stuff with this bad boy. Fighter/Psion: with that wonderful little line "Armor does not, however, interfere with the manifestation of powers." you can have your Fighter out there bashing heads near and far before he even has to lift a weapon. Rogue/Urban Ranger: a great hitman for any campaign. Oodles of role-playing fodder with this guy. And then my persnal favorites: Bard/Rogue: My namesake - Bard-of-all-trades. Skill, skills, and more skills. They drive this combo like a nuclear power plant. And then, when skills fail, a Flick of the Wrist and your problem slumps to the floor. And with Glibness, no one would believe you did it. Bard/Paladin(CG variant): great HD/HP, great BAB, great saves, loads of skills, and everything works off of Charisma. This one shines like no other. |
| Merryadocc12-18-06, 03:50 AM | Bard-of-all-trades Bard/Paladin(CG variant): great HD/HP, great BAB, great saves, loads of skills, and everything works off of Charisma. This one shines like no other. Or stay LG and take take Devoted Performer from Complete Adventurer. |
| Silverthumb12812-18-06, 04:11 AM | One that might not be super-popular, but has a large amount of combat versatility is Soulknife/Fighter. A very nice skill selection, all good saves, best BAB, and the Mindblade. Now, some might read that and think "La-dee-da, Mindblade." Let me explain why I think this works very well with Soulknife/Fighter(I say Fighter, and not Warblade for sake of feats): -Ability dependancy? Equipment dependancy? Both essentially thrown out the window. -Unbreakable(permanently, I mean), and can be reshaped after a dispel -Weapon Focus(Mindblade) straight through to Weapon Supremacy. That's the big one: You'll be capable of using its various shapes and sizes whenever you'd feel necessary, and always gain those bonuses. It also still works with Throw Mind Blade, Bladewind, etc, giving you Ranged and Melee capabilities without hassle of backup weapons, thievery, rust, whatever. -Psychic Strike/Knife to the Soul: On top of the damage bonuses you'll accrue through your many, many feats, you can get bonus damage dice -or- mental ability damage. Mental ability damage has the capability of quickly crippling most melee combatants(they almost always have one as a dump stat), and Mage Slaying. Essentially, a Soulknife/Fighter can easily snake its way through the Weapon Focus and TWF(standard size=Shortsword, easy to TWF) trees and be an uncanny slayer of opponents, between many bonuses to-hit, multiple attacks, extra damage, and ability damage. And with all good saves, armor proficiencies, and d10 HD, you're going to be hard to kill. Sorry, I'm nerding out and am really wanting to crunch the numbers together to see what its capable of. :D |
| Merestil Haye12-18-06, 02:58 PM | I ran a gestalt game from 2nd to 20th over 2005/06. The most effective character at dishing out the damage was a Fighter|Sorcerer who acquired a couple of templates over the campaign (on of his choice, one as a result of actions he took.) He also took the Argent Savant prestige class. He regularly doled out 80+points of damage in one hit - before the possibility of criticals. He was running Greater Mage Armour (+8), high Dex, and Ironguard. He usually cast Superior Invisibility at the start of a combat, then shapeshifted and waded in. With Arcane Strike (+9) to offset his 18-point Power Attack, Wraithstrike (even after my nerfing it to work on the character's next attack after he'd abused it for a session) an a huge Strength, he could generally count on landing 3 blows and deal of the order of 80-100 damage per blow. Other characters included the Sorcerer | Favoured Soul, the Cleric | Frr/Paladin/Knight of the Chalice and the Monk | ASAD1 / Kensai 10; we have a largeish group. Now they want to try epic games - oh, and kill Orcs. Lots and lots of Orcs... 1All Singing All Dancing |
| Bard-of-all-trades12-20-06, 11:30 PM | If you were looking for the most feats in one character, I'd go with Fighter/Samurai (Oriental Adventures version). This would get you 24 feats and 25 if you go Human. 11 bonus Fighter feats, 6 bonus Samurai feats, 1 bonus Human feat, and the 7 normal feats. Man what you could do with all those feats. |
| Sae Cael Oanar12-21-06, 11:42 AM | psywar gets 8 feats fighter/psywar would get a couple more, i havent seen samurai but you might be able to combine it with psywar on the other side for even more. as for what you could do with 25 or so feats: not much. |
| Silverthumb12812-21-06, 01:56 PM | If you were looking for the most feats in one character, I'd go with Fighter/Samurai (Oriental Adventures version). This would get you 24 feats and 25 if you go Human. 11 bonus Fighter feats, 6 bonus Samurai feats, 1 bonus Human feat, and the 7 normal feats. Man what you could do with all those feats. Great Cleave would probably be in there somewhere. :D |
| Valthonis12-21-06, 02:47 PM | sorcerer 6 /eldritch knight4/ jade pheonix mage 10/ swordsage 20 The only problem I can see with this build is that Eldritch Knight is not alowed in Gestalt (unless you've house ruled that it is). Gestalt rules specify that you can't take PrCs that are basicly amalgamations of base classes. In fact I believe that the example given for such restricted classes is EK. Other than that looks like a nice build. |
| Kobold_Avenger12-21-06, 03:11 PM | Wizard/Psion is nice. MM Mind Flayer/wizard or psion. Can you imagine the DC scores? Succubus/sorc, warlock, wilder or other Cha based class. The DCs are even higher than with the ilithid. Monk/Psychic warrior druid/Psychic warrior. |
| Evillain12-23-06, 10:41 PM | The only problem I can see with this build is that Eldritch Knight is not alowed in Gestalt (unless you've house ruled that it is). Gestalt rules specify that you can't take PrCs that are basicly amalgamations of base classes. In fact I believe that the example given for such restricted classes is EK. Other than that looks like a nice build. as you can guess EK is the filler in there... so put any other PRC and your ready to go |
| Rowan_Whispercloak12-23-06, 11:16 PM | as you can guess EK is the filler in there... so put any other PRC and your ready to go Abjurant Champion is in could be legal (kind of broken, but that is just my opinion +1/bab and spellcasting per level and the other "minor" goodies) There is also Telepath (psion)/Barbarian (you could just take Expanded Knowledge for schism) but you can rage and still use you powers. |
| Derrick12-24-06, 11:07 AM | The "lots of bonus feat" gestalts don't really work. They're operating on the assumption that you don't have to take the faster progression when you level up in two classes that share a class feature. (There may be other, more CO-ish reasons that they don't work, too.) Favored Soul^Sorceror and its elaborations don't seem to have gotten the attention that they should have. Remember that both classes are allowed to cast any spell that they "know", and you get both classes "known spell" allocation. (Note: while I have run this through the FAQ, your DM is likely to nerf this back into the Stone Age. Check before you play.) With the volume of spells in the game at the moment, it shouldn't be too hard to have a no-S spell for each level that you'd want to cast for your Sorceror slots; if it is, then there's always Draconic Breath, X Dragon Heritage, etc. If you're really fussy about the armor, I suppose the no-failure options and Geomancer are out there, too. For those interested in doing the Draconic route, worshipping a deity that favors claw works well (and, IMO, better than taking the Dragon Magic Favored Soul class feature option). |
| Evillain12-25-06, 02:18 AM | The "lots of bonus feat" gestalts don't really work. They're operating on the assumption that you don't have to take the faster progression when you level up in two classes that share a class feature. (There may be other, more CO-ish reasons that they don't work, too.) That's best progression for class features such ad HD, BAB, Saves, Skills and other same name class features. I don't think that if a figheter gains .5 feats/level and triple at first level, and a combat mage would gain .2 fighter feats/level if you would gestalt them together you'd loose the .2 feat/level. but if you would have the same ability (lets say feat rogue/fighter or rogue/thug) that would'nt stack because it's the same thing. As for the Spell known and spontaneous casting time, Gestalt rules imply that spellcasting spells don't mix and match. (the example abouta wiz/sor explains that implicitly) so i guess it doesn't work out even by raw. |
| Derrick12-25-06, 03:49 AM | That's best progression for class features such ad HD, BAB, Saves, Skills and other same name class features. You are, I presume, aware that the class feature "Bonus Feat" has a name. (If you were not, then the sentence you just read ought to have cleared that confusion up. :)) I don't think that if a figheter gains .5 feats/level and triple at first level, and a combat mage would gain .2 fighter feats/level if you would gestalt them together you'd loose the .2 feat/level. Even if you play the vanilla PHB classes, Fighter^Wizard is a case of taking a gestalt level in two classes that share a class feature. but if you would have the same ability (lets say feat rogue/fighter or rogue/thug) that would'nt stack because it's the same thing. Bonus Feat is Bonus Feat in the same way that Uncanny Dodge is Uncanny Dodge. The rate of progression involved is completely irrelevant to determining whether the character can stack the abilities or not. (I will conceed to my critics that the list from which the feat can be picked is a better effort, though this seems to be very similar to the Skill Point situation.) As for the Spell known and spontaneous casting time, Gestalt rules imply that spellcasting spells don't mix and match. (the example abouta wiz/sor explains that implicitly) so i guess it doesn't work out even by raw. I've read the RAW very carefully. That doesn't mean that I can't be wrong, but it ought to put my opinion above where you get by guessing. If there's a specific rule against this, please point it out. It's worth noting that you can (arguably) pull this 'mix and match' trick while playing a plain old multi-class Bard/Sorceror. Open up your PHB to page 54, look at that Spells section for the Sorceror: "A sorceror casts arcane spells (the same type of spells available to bards and wizards) which are drawn primarily from the sorceror/wizard spell list (page 192). He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or cleric must (see below)." That underlined text is very important. It doesn't say "any Sorceror spell he knows" - so anything that the Bard/Sorceor knows as a result of the magical and melodic workings of Table 3-5: Bard Spells Known ought to be fair game. Of course, this is a non-threatening combo. Sure, you can set your Sorceror up to cast CLW with his 1st-level slots, but it costs 2 levels of caster level advancement, and doesn't take you anywhere in terms of CO. When you throw Complete Divine into the mix, there's more trouble afoot. Favored Souls know spells, and moreover, they can cast any spell they know, just like a Sorceror. If it wasn't for being kept out of the 2nd-level spells at 3rd level club, Favored Soul/Sorceror/Mystic Theurge would be a pretty serious option. (Indeed, it might still be worth a look if you like that kind of thing.) Porting this over to Gestalt makes it a lot more efficient, but it doesn't actually create the situation any more than it creates the ability synergy between Divine spellcasters and Monk. |
| mkill12-25-06, 05:47 AM | The only problem I can see with this build is that Eldritch Knight is not alowed in Gestalt (unless you've house ruled that it is). Gestalt rules specify that you can't take PrCs that are basicly amalgamations of base classes. In fact I believe that the example given for such restricted classes is EK. Other than that looks like a nice build. Eldritch Knight is rather superflous in any gestalt build as you would already gain full BAB from your other class. So you gain *nothing* from EK but lose a caster level. EK is one of the many reasons why just taking two optimized normal builds and adding them for a gestalt is not the best idea. The others are lack of feats and MAD. @Derrick: Your interpretation of bonus feats and gestalt rules is wrong, but this was already discussed elsewhere. |
| Ariath Ska'Vhor12-25-06, 11:00 AM | What about rogue/beguiler? I've always seen that as working out really well. Plus I like the gestalt name...roguiler. Edit: On the other side of the name, doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well...begue... |
| Ikeren12-25-06, 02:08 PM | Wizard/Archivist: Sub in racial substitution levels if they feel more powerful/better/DM will let you. Dwarf: Wizard 1-5/1 Runecaster*/1 Incantatrix/Wizard 6/Incantatrix 2-3/Wizard 7-8/Incantatrix 4-10/ XYZ1 Archivist 1-7/1 Sacred Exorcist/Archivist 8-9/Contemplative 1/Radiant Servant of Pelor 1/Archivist 10-16/ XYZ1 The last level on each side isn't decided. Let's look at the build: Can learn every spell in existence (almost) Cast in full plate D6 HD, a couple places where saves are bumped, a couple places where BAB is bumped Full Armor, Shield, Simple, Martial Proficiencies Turn Undead to power Divine Metamagic Greater Turn Undead to power Divine Metamagic (DM's option) or own any undead. All the Archivist Base Class goodies up to 16 or 17 All the stupidly overpowered Incantatrix abilities MAD? Not a chance. Primary Intelligence, wisdom for bonus spells on the archivist side (very optional, you've got plenty of spells), con. Cha gives some extra turnings, but also more or less optional if Nightsticks are in. Skill requirements for the PRC's are easy: Know Religion, Heal, Spellcraft, Know the Planes. And feats? Extra turning and iron will. The rest, is up to you. *Runecaster or whatever it is from RoTD that lets you cast in full plate |
| ravenshrike12-25-06, 02:49 PM | Duskblade beguiler. Or Warblade Beguiler. Or warblade scout. Or favored soul of Kelanen(proficiency and eventually WF/WS in all swords, daggers, and crossbows) and warblade(some MAD present, although your main phys stat should be either Dex or Str. Can ignore most else. Go with monkeygrip and combine with Giants stance and you are treated as being large and your weapon as being huge. Add Elder mountain and you are doing 10d6 per hit that ignores DR and hardness. Not to mention the whole heal/buff yourself in battle bit. |
| Evillain12-25-06, 09:22 PM | Fighter/ashworm dragoon you get loads of feats (bonus feats and granted feats so theirs no comotion about it) and you can evade all attacks on your worm if your ride check is hier than the enemy attack roll. You can full attack on it while it makes a move, its got a nice little acid stinger that it uses at his own AB. I like the flavor of it too, fear my worm rider! |
| Fallenangel35912-27-06, 03:23 AM | Pixie4 shade4 ghost5 celestrial2 half red dragon3 saint2 1 warlock, then 3 fey blooded, then 5 more warlock, then 3 hellfire warlock (get the incarnium soulmeld to fix the con loss), then 8 more warlock effective warlock invocation level of 17, caster level of 20, hellfire caster level of 6, for 12d6 Due to eldritch blast and eldritch glaive not having to be a physical attack, it works out really well maximized, empowered hellfire eldritch glaives are mean |
| Evillain12-27-06, 05:05 AM | Since i'm not playin my Wiz/Eru anymore i'm gonna post it on here: wiz 3/Cerebremancer 1/Mind Made (dragon 313) 10/Cerebremancer 6/ Eru 3/Warblade 1/Eru/Wiz/Eru/Wiz/warblade 12/ So mostly all your abilities are Int dependant (spell casting and warblade) it's a dual spell caster so watch out, and unless you take human, your gonna need a feat to cover Xp penalty. (fav class warblade) Basicly mind mage introduces synergies between arcane and psionics, like paying metamagic costs with pp and metapsionic costs with spell slots. with this build your able to cast lvl 9 spells by 13th level with the focus of diciplines ability, tho you will be casting them as 7th level spells (for DC and spell slot). |
| Thunderriftv12-27-06, 09:16 AM | My favorite so far was a Soul Blade/ Sword Sage. He was very cool with plenty of tricks up his sleave. Combat was never repetative and the other players were always trying to guess what I was going to do next. |
| vardock12-27-06, 11:36 AM | here are a few of my favorite builds. 1: warlock/dragonfire adept and cleric/sorcerer going into eldrich thurge/ eldrich diciple. tons of at will stuff and plenty of spells 2: dragon shaman/ marshal. generate 3 buffing effects (4 at 12 level if you take the double draconic aura feat) at the same time, constantly. 3:barbarian/scout/frenzied berzerker/bear warrior/ war hulk (goliaths can qualify due to powerful build). Imagine a rageing, frenzied, Hulking bear charging at you with a speed of 50ft. with all those boneses to Str, combined with the power attacking from the berserker class, you can kill things with bonus damage alone. 4: paladin/warmage. full Bab and spell progression, bonus to saves that is also tied to your spell casting class, 5: warmage/Abjurer going into initiate of the seven fold veil/ fate spinner and force missle mage. master of offensive and definsive magic. |
| elondir12-27-06, 11:52 AM | I like Wizard 20/Fighter 4/Rogue 2/Cleric 14. Full arcane caster, enough BAB for four attacks, all weapon and armor proficiencies, evasion, and good healing. Basically a combo of mystic theurge and eldritch knight. Hmmm... if those two are allowed... cleric 16/wizard 9/rogue 2/fighter 1/mystic theurge 2/eldritch knight 10. BAB +18, full arcane spellcasting, 18 levels of cleric spellcasting, evasion, all martial weapon proficiencies. |
| Fallenangel35912-27-06, 07:09 PM | oh heres a fun one... 10druid/10planarshepard/20 cleric :) One has druidic spellcasting progression, one has cleric spellcasting progression, and then theres the whole time bubble thing... |
| Minister_for_Moral_Truth12-28-06, 08:17 AM | Where's my planned Dwarf wizard gestalt... 1 Rogue Wizard 2 Dwarf Paragon Wizard 3 Dwarf Paragon Wizard 4 Dwarf Paragon Wizard 5 Rogue Wizard 6 Stonelord Runesmith 7 Stonelord Runesmith 8 Stonelord Runesmith 9 Stonelord Runesmith 10 Stonelord Runesmith 11 Stonelord Wizard 12 Stonelord Wizard 13 Stonelord Wizard 14 Stonelord Wizard 15 Stonelord Wizard 16 Ollam Wizard 17 Dwarven Defender Ollam 18 Dwarven Defender Ollam 19 Dwarven Defender Ollam 20 Ollam Wizard There may be more optimised dwarf spellcaster builds, but there's none more dwarfish. |
| Mysk12-28-06, 07:17 PM | I'll post too, though I dunno how alive this thread is considering the start date. Human: Artificer 20/Wizard 20 Above is by far my favorite gestalt to date. Reasons: Wizard Bonus Feats, Artificer Bonus Feats, Regular Level Feats, Human Feat. Wizard carries artificer through the early levels when it is at its weakest, by the time the build matures it can be both a bufficer and a blastificer with wizardly spellcasting for utility that hasn't already been made into an item etc. The amount of feats lets the combo take feats it would normaly not have space for like Improved Homunculous, Etch Schema, Item Familiar etc, all while having the full suite of metamagic goodness. For those campaigns without downtime, which is the big deterrent to an artificer player besides a DM disallowing the class, there is a variant called craft points in unearthed arcana worth mentioning that takes care of the problem. Link to the SRD: Craft Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/craftPoints.htm) Artificer combines superbly with just about anything. Archivist combines great with just about anything involving Int. Warlock combines great with anything. The above are merely my oppinions though. And I believe the only thing new i'm bringing to the thread is a mention of the artificer base class. Happy gaming. |
| JiCi12-30-06, 08:34 AM | Swordsage/Duskblade Fighter/Duskblade (long lives bonus feats) Ranger/Scout Fighter/Dragon Shaman Dragonfire Adept/Dragon Shaman Psion/Fighter (now we're talking about a real psychic warrior) Dragon Shaman/Sorcerer (the real dragon ancestry) Swordsage 10/Jade Phoenix Mage 10 with Wizard or Sorcerer 20 |