Bloodline levels? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bloodline levels? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
joshmvii
02-22-04, 04:19 PM I can't seem to grasp how exactly a bloodline level works in terms of experience. If you have a major bloodline, and achieve level 3, do you just stay level 2, and then when you gain enough exp for 4th level you can go up to level 3? That seems like a half assed level adjustment, and one that would penalize those with minor bloodlines, since they only have to take their bloodline level at level 12.
Banpai
02-22-04, 04:34 PM In short tems, you buy up to 3 ECL levels in the course of your carrer. Shure they stack with level dependant effects and you have to take them at vertain levels or suffer XP penalities but its ECL IMO
joshmvii
02-22-04, 11:19 PM If you have a major bloodline, and achieve level 3, do you just stay level 2, and then when you gain enough exp for 4th level you can go up to level 3? That seems like a half assed level adjustment, and one that would penalize those with minor bloodlines, since they only have to take their bloodline level at level 12.

So what I said up there is correct about how they work? That seems a little....odd.
flyingmoose
02-23-04, 02:36 AM Well, you don't have to take them at those levels. If you have a major bloodline, you could take three bloodline levels before you even start adventuring. You just have to take them by those levels to keep gaining the benefits of the bloodline.
Greyman
02-23-04, 04:19 AM Bloodline levels have many things in common with Template Classes from Sean Reynold's Savage Progressions (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) series which, in turn, is based off the Monster Class concept presented in Savage Species.

Basically, when you take a bloodline level you gain a +1 Level Adjustment. You do not gain hit die, base save or attack bonuses, nor skill points, but you do get the the benefits due, which are not inconsequential.

Minor bloodline characters aren't penalised at all as they only have to take their bloodline level by character level 12, so can afford to wait until they feel the return is worth the investment.
joshmvii
02-23-04, 01:57 PM But if a minor bloodline character takes their bloodline level at level 11, they're going to basically spend several thousand experience, and gain level 20 later than they would normally.
Paraboombo
02-23-04, 02:05 PM Joshmvii: Yes. That is the point of the "Bloodline levels". They are exactly the same as ECL, except that you can delay them.

Oh and also, it makes no difference experience-wise, where you take the extra level, unless you incur the penalty.
Xorial
02-23-04, 02:20 PM Combine it with the variant of buying off ECL & pay an XP cost at those levels instead of actually leveling. Handles both very easily.
joshmvii
02-23-04, 07:51 PM it makes no difference experience-wise, where you take the extra level, unless you incur the penalty.

So how much exp do they cost? And it costs the same amount, no matter what level you take them? Assuming of course you don't go to the point of taking the exp penalty?
Greyman
02-23-04, 08:48 PM It costs 1 level. When you reach the point where you can raise a class level, you can choose to gain 1 bloodline level instead. Your class level (HD) remains the same, but your effective class level (ECL) increases by 1.
Buddha the DM
02-23-04, 09:20 PM Originally posted by Greyman
It costs 1 level. When you reach the point where you can raise a class level, you can choose to gain 1 bloodline level instead. Your class level (HD) remains the same, but your effective class level (ECL) increases by 1.

See this is all I wanted to know when I asked what the cost for a bloodline level was in another thread. Thanks for such a clear answer.
joshmvii
02-23-04, 10:43 PM Ok, here's an example:

I'm level 2. I go up to 6000 exp and I want to take a bloodline level. I remain level 2, but level 3 in regards to level dependent effects, but I have to wait until 10000 exp to get level 3(ecl 4)?

So it costs more to take the bloodline level if you take it between 10 and 11 than it does to take it between 2 and 3?
Eryndel
02-23-04, 11:13 PM Originally posted by joshmvii
Ok, here's an example:

I'm level 2. I go up to 6000 exp and I want to take a bloodline level. I remain level 2, but level 3 in regards to level dependent effects, but I have to wait until 10000 exp to get level 3(ecl 4)?

So it costs more to take the bloodline level if you take it between 10 and 11 than it does to take it between 2 and 3?

To be specific, say, you are a level 2 Sorcerer. (any class would work) You also have a major bloodline which requires you to spend a level by level 3 (or face an XP penalty). So, at third level, you put that in to your bloodline. So, you are a 3rd level character (I'd assume gaining the 3rd level ability of your bloodline) but a 2nd level sorcerer. Hit Dice, Skill Points, Saves, BAB all remain the same but your caster level is as a 3rd level character.

And yes, the bloodline level is more expensive at 11th level than 3rd since the 11th level is inherently more expensive than the 3rd.

At least, that's how I understand it.

Werner
Greyman
02-24-04, 02:28 AM Originally posted by joshmvii
Ok, here's an example:

I'm level 2. I go up to 6000 exp and I want to take a bloodline level. I remain level 2, but level 3 in regards to level dependent effects, but I have to wait until 10000 exp to get level 3(ecl 4)?

So it costs more to take the bloodline level if you take it between 10 and 11 than it does to take it between 2 and 3?Originally posted by Eryndel
And yes, the bloodline level is more expensive at 11th level than 3rd since the 11th level is inherently more expensive than the 3rd.While the bloodline level seems more expensive, it makes the class levels seem less so. It requires the exact same experience to reach ECL 12 regardless of the order in which you take your 11 character levels and one bloodline level.

Example: Say you have an intermediate bloodline, are level 2 (XP 3000), and wish to take a bloodline level either at level 3 or 4. If you decide to take the bloodline level first it 'costs' 3000XP and the next class level 'costs' 4000XP. If instead you take the next class level first, that 'costs' 3000 XP and the bloodline level costs '4000XP'. Thus the total cost to reach ECL 4 from ECL 2 remains 7000XP.

Single classed bloodline characters will find it advisable to delay taking their bloodline levels as long as possible because the loss of HD and BAB can hurt at low levels. Multiclassed characters may consider the payoff for taking the bloodline levels earlier to be more worthy, as the bloodline level counts towards determining the class level of the special abilities of both classes.
strenoth
02-24-04, 02:37 AM ohh... hmm, that woudl apply to gestalted characters too, wouldn't it? heh....

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
joshmvii 02-22-04, 04:19 PM	I can't seem to grasp how exactly a bloodline level works in terms of experience. If you have a major bloodline, and achieve level 3, do you just stay level 2, and then when you gain enough exp for 4th level you can go up to level 3? That seems like a half assed level adjustment, and one that would penalize those with minor bloodlines, since they only have to take their bloodline level at level 12.
Banpai 02-22-04, 04:34 PM	In short tems, you buy up to 3 ECL levels in the course of your carrer. Shure they stack with level dependant effects and you have to take them at vertain levels or suffer XP penalities but its ECL IMO
joshmvii 02-22-04, 11:19 PM	If you have a major bloodline, and achieve level 3, do you just stay level 2, and then when you gain enough exp for 4th level you can go up to level 3? That seems like a half assed level adjustment, and one that would penalize those with minor bloodlines, since they only have to take their bloodline level at level 12. So what I said up there is correct about how they work? That seems a little....odd.
flyingmoose 02-23-04, 02:36 AM	Well, you don't have to take them at those levels. If you have a major bloodline, you could take three bloodline levels before you even start adventuring. You just have to take them by those levels to keep gaining the benefits of the bloodline.
Greyman 02-23-04, 04:19 AM	Bloodline levels have many things in common with Template Classes from Sean Reynold's Savage Progressions (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) series which, in turn, is based off the Monster Class concept presented in Savage Species. Basically, when you take a bloodline level you gain a +1 Level Adjustment. You do not gain hit die, base save or attack bonuses, nor skill points, but you do get the the benefits due, which are not inconsequential. Minor bloodline characters aren't penalised at all as they only have to take their bloodline level by character level 12, so can afford to wait until they feel the return is worth the investment.
joshmvii 02-23-04, 01:57 PM	But if a minor bloodline character takes their bloodline level at level 11, they're going to basically spend several thousand experience, and gain level 20 later than they would normally.
Paraboombo 02-23-04, 02:05 PM	Joshmvii: Yes. That is the point of the "Bloodline levels". They are exactly the same as ECL, except that you can delay them. Oh and also, it makes no difference experience-wise, where you take the extra level, unless you incur the penalty.
Xorial 02-23-04, 02:20 PM	Combine it with the variant of buying off ECL & pay an XP cost at those levels instead of actually leveling. Handles both very easily.
joshmvii 02-23-04, 07:51 PM	it makes no difference experience-wise, where you take the extra level, unless you incur the penalty. So how much exp do they cost? And it costs the same amount, no matter what level you take them? Assuming of course you don't go to the point of taking the exp penalty?
Greyman 02-23-04, 08:48 PM	It costs 1 level. When you reach the point where you can raise a class level, you can choose to gain 1 bloodline level instead. Your class level (HD) remains the same, but your effective class level (ECL) increases by 1.
Buddha the DM 02-23-04, 09:20 PM	Originally posted by Greyman It costs 1 level. When you reach the point where you can raise a class level, you can choose to gain 1 bloodline level instead. Your class level (HD) remains the same, but your effective class level (ECL) increases by 1. See this is all I wanted to know when I asked what the cost for a bloodline level was in another thread. Thanks for such a clear answer.
joshmvii 02-23-04, 10:43 PM	Ok, here's an example: I'm level 2. I go up to 6000 exp and I want to take a bloodline level. I remain level 2, but level 3 in regards to level dependent effects, but I have to wait until 10000 exp to get level 3(ecl 4)? So it costs more to take the bloodline level if you take it between 10 and 11 than it does to take it between 2 and 3?
Eryndel 02-23-04, 11:13 PM	Originally posted by joshmvii Ok, here's an example: I'm level 2. I go up to 6000 exp and I want to take a bloodline level. I remain level 2, but level 3 in regards to level dependent effects, but I have to wait until 10000 exp to get level 3(ecl 4)? So it costs more to take the bloodline level if you take it between 10 and 11 than it does to take it between 2 and 3? To be specific, say, you are a level 2 Sorcerer. (any class would work) You also have a major bloodline which requires you to spend a level by level 3 (or face an XP penalty). So, at third level, you put that in to your bloodline. So, you are a 3rd level character (I'd assume gaining the 3rd level ability of your bloodline) but a 2nd level sorcerer. Hit Dice, Skill Points, Saves, BAB all remain the same but your caster level is as a 3rd level character. And yes, the bloodline level is more expensive at 11th level than 3rd since the 11th level is inherently more expensive than the 3rd. At least, that's how I understand it. Werner
Greyman 02-24-04, 02:28 AM	Originally posted by joshmvii Ok, here's an example: I'm level 2. I go up to 6000 exp and I want to take a bloodline level. I remain level 2, but level 3 in regards to level dependent effects, but I have to wait until 10000 exp to get level 3(ecl 4)? So it costs more to take the bloodline level if you take it between 10 and 11 than it does to take it between 2 and 3?Originally posted by Eryndel And yes, the bloodline level is more expensive at 11th level than 3rd since the 11th level is inherently more expensive than the 3rd.While the bloodline level seems more expensive, it makes the class levels seem less so. It requires the exact same experience to reach ECL 12 regardless of the order in which you take your 11 character levels and one bloodline level. Example: Say you have an intermediate bloodline, are level 2 (XP 3000), and wish to take a bloodline level either at level 3 or 4. If you decide to take the bloodline level first it 'costs' 3000XP and the next class level 'costs' 4000XP. If instead you take the next class level first, that 'costs' 3000 XP and the bloodline level costs '4000XP'. Thus the total cost to reach ECL 4 from ECL 2 remains 7000XP. Single classed bloodline characters will find it advisable to delay taking their bloodline levels as long as possible because the loss of HD and BAB can hurt at low levels. Multiclassed characters may consider the payoff for taking the bloodline levels earlier to be more worthy, as the bloodline level counts towards determining the class level of the special abilities of both classes.
strenoth 02-24-04, 02:37 AM	ohh... hmm, that woudl apply to gestalted characters too, wouldn't it? heh....