Bloodline Variant: 'Lines of Work' [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bloodline Variant: 'Lines of Work' [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Demonwolf
09-15-05, 12:10 PM It’s always bothered me how the only ways to be considered a part of some absolutely essential fantasy archetypes like the ninja, assassin, samurai, swashbuckler, and to a lesser extent, ranger and paladin are to either-

a) go all the way in a core/prestige class that fits only one version of the aforementioned archetypes,
b) Take a couple of levels in said core/prestige classes and go through severe agony to avoid wasting feats and skillpoints, (the most appealing option imo) while still missing out on features, or
c) Take no levels of the classes whatsoever and just hope everyone takes your word for it that you’re a member of said archetype despite the fact that you have none of their trademark abilities.

(Btw, I’m well aware of the fact that this is all just a matter of opinion. I’m mainly looking for help and ideas with this bloodline, as well as examples of other profession bloodlines.)

It hasn’t been any source of unbearable agony, but it’s always bugged me that the only way to be an assassin was to be a certain level, have certain ranks in certain skills, have certain feats and then continue on with a certain HD and number of skillpoints. It seemed wrong that it was difficult if not impossible to be a full-fledged assassin and maintain credibility as a wizard, barbarian, bard, etc. It’s even worse with archetypes that are core classes, like ninjas or swashbucklers. Designations like that are meant for flavor, imo, and flavor, in the context of both food and character design, is something that adds on ever-so-subtly without detracting only slightly from the original. Templates and traits, for example.

And then I saw bloodlines. For a long time, they just seemed like a somewhat bland and unfeasible means for making characters I was never interested in anyways- my characters tend to be very down-to-earth, generally avoiding the whole dragon-blooded half-ogre warlock/barbarian line of thought. But they seemed perfect for something else. So, without further ado, I give you the ninja bloodline. As with every other bloodline, the first 5 levels are for minor, the first 10 are for intermediate and all 20 are for major.

1. Hide and move silently become class skills- if already class skill, +1 move silently and hide.
2. Ninja Bonus Feature
3. +1 dexterity
4. Ninja Bonus Feature
5.
6. Ninja Bonus Feature
7. +1 jump and +1 climb.
8. Ninja Bonus Feature
9. +1 wisdom
10. Ninja Bonus Feature
11.
12. Ninja Bonus Feature
13. +1 move silently, +1 hide.
14. Ninja Bonus Feature
15. +1 intelligence
16. Ninja Bonus Feature
17.
18. Ninja Bonus Feature
19. +1 jump, +1 climb
20. Ninja Bonus Feature

Ninja Features and Prereqs:

Improved Unarmed Strike Lv.1
Great Leap Lv.4, 8 ranks in jump
Poison Use Lv.2
Skill Mastery (m.s., hide, jump, climb) Lv.4, 8 ranks move silently, hide
Speed Sneak Lv.4, 8 ranks move silently, hide
Speed Climb Lv.4, 8 ranks climb
Hide in Plain Sight Lv.15, 15 ranks hide
Improved Poison Use Lv.8
+10 Fast Movement Lv.6
+20 Fast Movement Lv.10
spectralphoenix
09-16-05, 12:46 PM Ninja Affinity?!?

Seriously though, this seems like a pretty good idea. I'm not sure how the game balance would work out, but it sounds like a good way to be a ninja without becoming pigeonholed into a single definition of "ninja."
Raelifin
09-16-05, 02:58 PM I take option C. Rogues are often called theives, assasins, thugs or bandits even if they take no classes in any PrCs. See this: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=209

Also, not to disrespect your work (which I am not quite sure about), but I fail to see why anyone needs a ninja class. Rogue works perfectly as a ninja. *Ducks impending flames* :D
Demonwolf
09-16-05, 05:08 PM Ninja Affinity?!?

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's ridiculous. I just put it in there so I could throw it out there as an idea to have the bloodline rules work for professions in a way that isn't too restrictive, difficult, unbalanced or inaccessible.

I'm gonna get rid of that, and instead, I'd probably make the even-level special bonuses be selected from a special ninja feat list much like the rogue's special abilities. If someone takes a profession by choice instead of letting nature take its course like a bloodline, the progression of their bonuses probably wouldn't be as rigid. However, I'd put a prerequisite on each of the feats on the ninja bloodline list. Made the appropriate changes above.
dragonman407
09-16-05, 08:21 PM actually, i think this could work. just limit the amount of classes that can take this "bloodline". for example, a rouge could take it and gain some nifty extra abilities to compliment his rouge abilities. different classes would symbolize different types of ninja. for example: fighter with this would be classified as a ninja with an affinity for direct combat, or a monk with this would be a ninja who specialized in using no weapons at all. there are many different combinations that would give much more flavor to your characters, but be sure to stay away from combinations that don't work, like a barbarian/ninja bloodline.
Demonwolf
09-16-05, 09:52 PM there are many different combinations that would give much more flavor to your characters, but be sure to stay away from combinations that don't work, like a barbarian/ninja bloodline.

That would be really rocky terrain to travel into, imo. It's like making class restrictions on prestige classes, you never know when someone's going to come up with an idea that actually works with an outlawed combination. This is from a guy who's done a half-orc nobleman, a half-elf barbarian, a mystic theurge in a 30's film-noir setting and a lv20 pixie fighter, so I don't want to make any major restrictions. Besides, I'm having trouble thinking of a combination with ninja that absolutely doesn't work, with the possible exception of ninja/samurai, and even that's really iffy.

Incidentally, barbarian ninja idea formulating... bastard child of legendary ninja heroine, learned how to fight and sneak on the streets, supplemented by the training recieved from newly found family. Hot-blooded, dubious adoptee who puts aside his abandonment and anger issues to battle a greater evil. Add an appropriate weapon, and there you have it.

Also, wild elf ninja clan.
dragonman407
09-16-05, 10:49 PM but the ninja was usually trained to be calm in battle and needs to be calm to sneak around. To me, I just can't see a ninja screaming at the top of his lungs in rage and charging mindlessly into battle.

this might be interesting with a bipolar character though. :P
spectralphoenix
09-16-05, 11:02 PM As for the ninja/samurai, I read that there was actually a quasi-historical figure in the 15th or 16th century (I think) who was supposed to have trained as both. Don't ask me for any details, but I read it somewhere.
Demonwolf
09-16-05, 11:45 PM but the ninja was usually trained to be calm in battle and needs to be calm to sneak around. To me, I just can't see a ninja screaming at the top of his lungs in rage and charging mindlessly into battle.

Rage doesn't always have to involve screaming and mindlessness. A barbarian could be calm most of the time, but delve into untapped reserves of repressed anger during combat. I'm picturing a calm, almost rational but vaguely dark and disturbing warrior who enters battle, and all of a sudden, there's a demonic and sadistic grin on his lips and a look of sheer rage and madness in his eyes as he soundlessly, systematically and gruesomely slays foes, gleefully disemboweling, decapitating, slitting veins and breaking bones with a kusarigama, twin sai, twin nekode or something along the lines.
spectralphoenix
09-17-05, 12:15 AM Very graphic.

Regardless, I agree that you shouldn't restrict it based on class. Even if you can't think up a concept for a particular combination, that doesn't mean a clever player somewhere won't. That's my beef with the paladin/monk multiclassing rules.
Demonwolf
09-17-05, 08:11 AM Sorry. Been a writer for 7 years now, and I tend to do that sometimes.

In any case, does anyone have any issues with the ninja bloodline as far as balance? If not, I'll probably just move on and try to do a ranger bloodline or something along the lines.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Demonwolf 09-15-05, 12:10 PM	It’s always bothered me how the only ways to be considered a part of some absolutely essential fantasy archetypes like the ninja, assassin, samurai, swashbuckler, and to a lesser extent, ranger and paladin are to either- a) go all the way in a core/prestige class that fits only one version of the aforementioned archetypes, b) Take a couple of levels in said core/prestige classes and go through severe agony to avoid wasting feats and skillpoints, (the most appealing option imo) while still missing out on features, or c) Take no levels of the classes whatsoever and just hope everyone takes your word for it that you’re a member of said archetype despite the fact that you have none of their trademark abilities. (Btw, I’m well aware of the fact that this is all just a matter of opinion. I’m mainly looking for help and ideas with this bloodline, as well as examples of other profession bloodlines.) It hasn’t been any source of unbearable agony, but it’s always bugged me that the only way to be an assassin was to be a certain level, have certain ranks in certain skills, have certain feats and then continue on with a certain HD and number of skillpoints. It seemed wrong that it was difficult if not impossible to be a full-fledged assassin and maintain credibility as a wizard, barbarian, bard, etc. It’s even worse with archetypes that are core classes, like ninjas or swashbucklers. Designations like that are meant for flavor, imo, and flavor, in the context of both food and character design, is something that adds on ever-so-subtly without detracting only slightly from the original. Templates and traits, for example. And then I saw bloodlines. For a long time, they just seemed like a somewhat bland and unfeasible means for making characters I was never interested in anyways- my characters tend to be very down-to-earth, generally avoiding the whole dragon-blooded half-ogre warlock/barbarian line of thought. But they seemed perfect for something else. So, without further ado, I give you the ninja bloodline. As with every other bloodline, the first 5 levels are for minor, the first 10 are for intermediate and all 20 are for major. 1. Hide and move silently become class skills- if already class skill, +1 move silently and hide. 2. Ninja Bonus Feature 3. +1 dexterity 4. Ninja Bonus Feature 5. 6. Ninja Bonus Feature 7. +1 jump and +1 climb. 8. Ninja Bonus Feature 9. +1 wisdom 10. Ninja Bonus Feature 11. 12. Ninja Bonus Feature 13. +1 move silently, +1 hide. 14. Ninja Bonus Feature 15. +1 intelligence 16. Ninja Bonus Feature 17. 18. Ninja Bonus Feature 19. +1 jump, +1 climb 20. Ninja Bonus Feature Ninja Features and Prereqs: Improved Unarmed Strike Lv.1 Great Leap Lv.4, 8 ranks in jump Poison Use Lv.2 Skill Mastery (m.s., hide, jump, climb) Lv.4, 8 ranks move silently, hide Speed Sneak Lv.4, 8 ranks move silently, hide Speed Climb Lv.4, 8 ranks climb Hide in Plain Sight Lv.15, 15 ranks hide Improved Poison Use Lv.8 +10 Fast Movement Lv.6 +20 Fast Movement Lv.10
spectralphoenix 09-16-05, 12:46 PM	Ninja Affinity?!? Seriously though, this seems like a pretty good idea. I'm not sure how the game balance would work out, but it sounds like a good way to be a ninja without becoming pigeonholed into a single definition of "ninja."
Raelifin 09-16-05, 02:58 PM	I take option C. Rogues are often called theives, assasins, thugs or bandits even if they take no classes in any PrCs. See this: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=209 Also, not to disrespect your work (which I am not quite sure about), but I fail to see why anyone needs a ninja class. Rogue works perfectly as a ninja. Ducks impending flames :D
Demonwolf 09-16-05, 05:08 PM	Ninja Affinity?!? Yeah, yeah, I know, it's ridiculous. I just put it in there so I could throw it out there as an idea to have the bloodline rules work for professions in a way that isn't too restrictive, difficult, unbalanced or inaccessible. I'm gonna get rid of that, and instead, I'd probably make the even-level special bonuses be selected from a special ninja feat list much like the rogue's special abilities. If someone takes a profession by choice instead of letting nature take its course like a bloodline, the progression of their bonuses probably wouldn't be as rigid. However, I'd put a prerequisite on each of the feats on the ninja bloodline list. Made the appropriate changes above.
dragonman407 09-16-05, 08:21 PM	actually, i think this could work. just limit the amount of classes that can take this "bloodline". for example, a rouge could take it and gain some nifty extra abilities to compliment his rouge abilities. different classes would symbolize different types of ninja. for example: fighter with this would be classified as a ninja with an affinity for direct combat, or a monk with this would be a ninja who specialized in using no weapons at all. there are many different combinations that would give much more flavor to your characters, but be sure to stay away from combinations that don't work, like a barbarian/ninja bloodline.
Demonwolf 09-16-05, 09:52 PM	there are many different combinations that would give much more flavor to your characters, but be sure to stay away from combinations that don't work, like a barbarian/ninja bloodline. That would be really rocky terrain to travel into, imo. It's like making class restrictions on prestige classes, you never know when someone's going to come up with an idea that actually works with an outlawed combination. This is from a guy who's done a half-orc nobleman, a half-elf barbarian, a mystic theurge in a 30's film-noir setting and a lv20 pixie fighter, so I don't want to make any major restrictions. Besides, I'm having trouble thinking of a combination with ninja that absolutely doesn't work, with the possible exception of ninja/samurai, and even that's really iffy. Incidentally, barbarian ninja idea formulating... bastard child of legendary ninja heroine, learned how to fight and sneak on the streets, supplemented by the training recieved from newly found family. Hot-blooded, dubious adoptee who puts aside his abandonment and anger issues to battle a greater evil. Add an appropriate weapon, and there you have it. Also, wild elf ninja clan.
dragonman407 09-16-05, 10:49 PM	but the ninja was usually trained to be calm in battle and needs to be calm to sneak around. To me, I just can't see a ninja screaming at the top of his lungs in rage and charging mindlessly into battle. this might be interesting with a bipolar character though. :P
spectralphoenix 09-16-05, 11:02 PM	As for the ninja/samurai, I read that there was actually a quasi-historical figure in the 15th or 16th century (I think) who was supposed to have trained as both. Don't ask me for any details, but I read it somewhere.
Demonwolf 09-16-05, 11:45 PM	but the ninja was usually trained to be calm in battle and needs to be calm to sneak around. To me, I just can't see a ninja screaming at the top of his lungs in rage and charging mindlessly into battle. Rage doesn't always have to involve screaming and mindlessness. A barbarian could be calm most of the time, but delve into untapped reserves of repressed anger during combat. I'm picturing a calm, almost rational but vaguely dark and disturbing warrior who enters battle, and all of a sudden, there's a demonic and sadistic grin on his lips and a look of sheer rage and madness in his eyes as he soundlessly, systematically and gruesomely slays foes, gleefully disemboweling, decapitating, slitting veins and breaking bones with a kusarigama, twin sai, twin nekode or something along the lines.
spectralphoenix 09-17-05, 12:15 AM	Very graphic. Regardless, I agree that you shouldn't restrict it based on class. Even if you can't think up a concept for a particular combination, that doesn't mean a clever player somewhere won't. That's my beef with the paladin/monk multiclassing rules.
Demonwolf 09-17-05, 08:11 AM	Sorry. Been a writer for 7 years now, and I tend to do that sometimes. In any case, does anyone have any issues with the ninja bloodline as far as balance? If not, I'll probably just move on and try to do a ranger bloodline or something along the lines.