Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Laucian The Black Hearted 07-15-06, 11:58 AM	I'm preparing to run a campaign and am considering using the Bloodline variant, however I hate the way it forces you to take a level depending on the bloodline strength. Does anyone out there have a fix for it? I tried to make it related to feats in that each bloodline and strength is it's own feat, but I'm unsure how I feel about it. For Example: For a minor bloodline, you take the feat at 1st level. For an intermediate bloodline, you take the feat at 1st level and forego your next feat at 3rd level. For a major bloodline, you take the feat at 1st level and forego your feats at 3rd and 6th level. The problem is, a major bloodline grants an ability at every level up, and to lose 2 abilities for 20 isn't that balanced at all. Plus, classes like the fighter with a lot of bonus feats are nearly unnaffected by this system. Any suggestions?
Pz.Az.04Maus 07-18-06, 09:34 AM	Aff, I don't like the bloodline idea of forcing you to take a level, but sadly, I don't know of anything...
Teh_username 07-19-06, 08:58 PM	Considering that Bloodlines are, quite simply, "templates" that grant you abilities based on level (and delay the LA cost for such until you hit level X), a feat just wouldn't cut it. Possibly require an XP cost at regular intervals, much like buying off LA?
Jerks 07-20-06, 03:59 AM	Considering that Bloodlines are, quite simply, "templates" that grant you abilities based on level (and delay the LA cost for such until you hit level X), a feat just wouldn't cut it. Possibly require an XP cost at regular intervals, much like buying off LA? This is pretty much how I run it in my game, but with a slight twist to reflect the different nature of the bloodline. The XP penalty is only 75% that of a ECL buy-off, but purchased similarly. For a minor bloodline, the character must pay an XP penalty of (ECL-1) x 750 upon gaining enough experience to attain 3rd level. For a intermediate bloodline, the character pays the minor bloodline cost. And repeats the process again after achieving his or her 6th class level. For a major bloodline, the character pays both of the above cost, and repeats the process again after achieving his or her 12th class level. It's a little screwy in that the minor bloodline pays an XP cost BEFORE he sees any benefit, so I added in the ability at 1st level for all bloodlines that they can use magic items intended for the race indicated in their bloodline. Not an earthshattering power-up, but at least they get something.
bobrunnicles 08-10-06, 12:36 PM	I have a different question about bloodlines - as written, the table seems to suggest that a major bloodline gets something every level but has to take a 'bloodline level' every third level up. The fact that the table contains entries for every level up to 20 seems to support this. HOWEVER both the text and the example seem to suggest that a bloodline level basically nets you NOTHING, but having taken it, upon your next level up you can continue to benefit from the bloodline abilities. It suggests that you actually get the third level bloodline bonus when you take a third class level, not character level. Where am I reading this wrong? If you really do get nothing for a bloodline level except the ability to continue to get bloodline powers next time you level up, then why does the table have 20 levels (you'd need to actually be 26th level in total XP to get them all if the example is correct). Thanks for any help! Bob
Jerks 08-10-06, 01:03 PM	Both the text and table are correct. Character Level = sum of all class levels. Bloodline class levels count in the determination of any character ability based on class levels. The acquistion of bloodline abilities is based on character level (the sum of all class levels). Oops, sorry. Edited for clarity.
bobrunnicles 08-10-06, 01:16 PM	Paragons? I assume you meant bloodlines; I haven't looked at the paragon stuff at all. However assuming that the same applies in both cases (ie character level = sum of all *class* levels) then it's odd that the chart goes up to 20th level even though by the time the character is at a place to get the higher level abilities they will have actually earned enough XP to start taking Epic levels....am I reading that right? So a party with a regular character and a major bloodline character will, at, say 15th level, have a 15th level character and a 12th level character with three bloodline levels (and the bloodline special abilities granted will only include those up to the level 12 mark)? So to get the higher bloodline abilities you would pretty much *have* to 'go Epic'?
FeceMan 08-10-06, 03:58 PM	The bloodlines system, in my opinion, is very, very weak in comparison to what one would get by simply taking a race or template with a standard LA...so maybe just use savage progression?
bobrunnicles 08-10-06, 04:32 PM	The bloodlines system, in my opinion, is very, very weak in comparison to what one would get by simply taking a race or template with a standard LA...so maybe just use savage progression? Is that in Savage Species?
FeceMan 08-10-06, 06:14 PM	Is that in Savage Species? Correct. And, if you wanted to, you could make one up (since SS doesn't cover all the races). Races of the Dragon has a similar one for half-dragons (very nice).
Verelor 08-10-06, 08:55 PM	Bloodlines are poorly handled stuff. I do not recommend them in their present state.
Jerks 08-11-06, 03:48 AM	Paragons? I assume you meant bloodlines; I haven't looked at the paragon stuff at all. However assuming that the same applies in both cases (ie character level = sum of all *class* levels) then it's odd that the chart goes up to 20th level even though by the time the character is at a place to get the higher level abilities they will have actually earned enough XP to start taking Epic levels....am I reading that right? So a party with a regular character and a major bloodline character will, at, say 15th level, have a 15th level character and a 12th level character with three bloodline levels (and the bloodline special abilities granted will only include those up to the level 12 mark)? So to get the higher bloodline abilities you would pretty much *have* to 'go Epic'? Sorry, I did indeed mean bloodlines. My previous post has been edited for clarity. In your above example, the bloodline character is a 15th level character, and has bloodline abilities up to 15th level. Bloodline levels + "other" class levels = character level