bloodlines rules questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

bloodlines rules questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
j2
09-26-06, 12:31 AM While I really enjoy the additions of bloodlines to the 3.5 game, I find the rules a bit unclear/unfinished in a few areas (UA pg 19). I generally understand how the structure of bloodlines work, but...

Using the following as an example, assume we have a 1st level human rogue (with a minor bloodline) who upon reaching 1000 xp, takes one level in his bloodline. Here are my questions:

1) At 1000 xp (upon taking level in bloodline), is rogue's character level for xp awards (DMG pg 38) now 1 or 2? (Is rogue 2nd character level for this purpose)?

2) Same scenario, but rogue now achieves 3000 xp (enough to attain 3rd character level). Rogue now takes 2nd rogue level (in additon to his 1 bloodline level). Does rogue now get a feat for attaining "3rd character level".

3) Same scenario, but rogue is now achieves 6000 xp (enough to attain 4th character level). Rogue now takes 3rd rogue level (in additon to his 1 bloodline level). Does rogue now get an ability score increase for attaining "4th character level".

4) Does rogue (who is human) gain 1 skill point each level (including the bloodline level), as this is race based, not class based for a Human? (I realize the rule in UA pg 19 says no skill points, but I'm wondering how this would apply to race based - not class based - Human bonus skill point).

Your help/comments on this is greatly appreciated. The area I am least comfortable with is question 1.
gbnogkfs
09-27-06, 10:46 AM from what's written in UA, Bloodline levels are something between a "HD"-level and an "LA"-level...

1) you can take the 1st bloodline level at 3rd level instead (in fact, it's better to do so). assuming you choose to do it now, your character wuold be 2nd level for advancement. [and, based on the description in those pages, I assume it is 2nd level for all and every game practical purposes (feats, ability increases, etc...), though this is not clearly stated]

2) that's not clear, but I assume you do, as bloodline levels do increase character level (as opposed to LA adjustment). As said before, you get a better bargain by taking at 1000 XP your 2nd rogue level and at 3000 XP your 1st bloodline level.

3) again, I assume so.

4) that's the least clear. human says you get 1 extra skill point per level, while bloodline says you get "no" (not "zero") skill point [the "-" vs "0" in spellcasting progressions]. I don't know: you can interpret this both ways, but I'm inclined to believe no skill point does stick better with the spirit and letter of the rules here.

5) UA is really a list of suggestions: they are not wholly clear in how they interact with the big corpus of d&d rules.
j2
09-27-06, 09:50 PM Thank you gbnogkfs for the input.

The first time I read the bloodlines section of UA, I pretty much assumed it to work as you stated. The confusion began when I read more closely under the "bloodline levels" header: "Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits." Unfortunately, this sentence may not be as black and white as it seems to read, based on the bloodline "theme".

Had I not seen that one sentence, I would have gone the way you described from the get-go. Now I'm sort of up-in-the-air on the decision, prior to us starting a new campaign that will contain bloodlines. My choice will most likely be either: A) all of the scenarios apply (human skill as well) as a standard character level gain; or B) None of the scenarios apply, as if no character level had increased. That much I am pretty set in - all or none (either you gain a character level, or you didn't).

Logically, it seems more standardized to allow character level increase as normal as each bloodline level is taken (as you described), so I am currently leaning that way - and my personal preference would be to allow the skill point (and any other usual character level increases) - though I do see the other side of the argument (no vs. zero, etc.).

I full heartedly agree with your #5. I have no problem tearing apart UA, and applying/adjusting rules as I see fit for our campaign setting (thanks to the handy/dandy checklist included). This particular rule needs an errata or faq entry attached to it I think - one more sentence should fix any confusion.

I also agree about taking the bloodline levels at the last minute as you suggested.

Any other input out there is appreciated before I finalize my decision on this. Any folks actually use this method?

Off topic... while I was reading the downloadable FAQ's, searching for this bloodline info (there is some bloodline info in the FAQ BTW), I ran across a little tidbit (some of you already know this, I'm sure, but I'm new to these boards)... Prestige classes do not cause the xp penalties as other multiclassing may. This was news to me thanks to my jumping from AD&D straight to 3.5 :-)
gbnogkfs
09-28-06, 07:40 PM Off topic... while I was reading the downloadable FAQ's, searching for this bloodline info (there is some bloodline info in the FAQ BTW), I ran across a little tidbit (some of you already know this, I'm sure, but I'm new to these boards)... Prestige classes do not cause the xp penalties as other multiclassing may. This was news to me thanks to my jumping from AD&D straight to 3.5 :-)

and thanks to WotC refusing to add any errata.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
j2 09-26-06, 12:31 AM	While I really enjoy the additions of bloodlines to the 3.5 game, I find the rules a bit unclear/unfinished in a few areas (UA pg 19). I generally understand how the structure of bloodlines work, but... Using the following as an example, assume we have a 1st level human rogue (with a minor bloodline) who upon reaching 1000 xp, takes one level in his bloodline. Here are my questions: 1) At 1000 xp (upon taking level in bloodline), is rogue's character level for xp awards (DMG pg 38) now 1 or 2? (Is rogue 2nd character level for this purpose)? 2) Same scenario, but rogue now achieves 3000 xp (enough to attain 3rd character level). Rogue now takes 2nd rogue level (in additon to his 1 bloodline level). Does rogue now get a feat for attaining "3rd character level". 3) Same scenario, but rogue is now achieves 6000 xp (enough to attain 4th character level). Rogue now takes 3rd rogue level (in additon to his 1 bloodline level). Does rogue now get an ability score increase for attaining "4th character level". 4) Does rogue (who is human) gain 1 skill point each level (including the bloodline level), as this is race based, not class based for a Human? (I realize the rule in UA pg 19 says no skill points, but I'm wondering how this would apply to race based - not class based - Human bonus skill point). Your help/comments on this is greatly appreciated. The area I am least comfortable with is question 1.
gbnogkfs 09-27-06, 10:46 AM	from what's written in UA, Bloodline levels are something between a "HD"-level and an "LA"-level... 1) you can take the 1st bloodline level at 3rd level instead (in fact, it's better to do so). assuming you choose to do it now, your character wuold be 2nd level for advancement. [and, based on the description in those pages, I assume it is 2nd level for all and every game practical purposes (feats, ability increases, etc...), though this is not clearly stated] 2) that's not clear, but I assume you do, as bloodline levels do increase character level (as opposed to LA adjustment). As said before, you get a better bargain by taking at 1000 XP your 2nd rogue level and at 3000 XP your 1st bloodline level. 3) again, I assume so. 4) that's the least clear. human says you get 1 extra skill point per level, while bloodline says you get "no" (not "zero") skill point [the "-" vs "0" in spellcasting progressions]. I don't know: you can interpret this both ways, but I'm inclined to believe no skill point does stick better with the spirit and letter of the rules here. 5) UA is really a list of suggestions: they are not wholly clear in how they interact with the big corpus of d&d rules.
j2 09-27-06, 09:50 PM	Thank you gbnogkfs for the input. The first time I read the bloodlines section of UA, I pretty much assumed it to work as you stated. The confusion began when I read more closely under the "bloodline levels" header: "Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits." Unfortunately, this sentence may not be as black and white as it seems to read, based on the bloodline "theme". Had I not seen that one sentence, I would have gone the way you described from the get-go. Now I'm sort of up-in-the-air on the decision, prior to us starting a new campaign that will contain bloodlines. My choice will most likely be either: A) all of the scenarios apply (human skill as well) as a standard character level gain; or B) None of the scenarios apply, as if no character level had increased. That much I am pretty set in - all or none (either you gain a character level, or you didn't). Logically, it seems more standardized to allow character level increase as normal as each bloodline level is taken (as you described), so I am currently leaning that way - and my personal preference would be to allow the skill point (and any other usual character level increases) - though I do see the other side of the argument (no vs. zero, etc.). I full heartedly agree with your #5. I have no problem tearing apart UA, and applying/adjusting rules as I see fit for our campaign setting (thanks to the handy/dandy checklist included). This particular rule needs an errata or faq entry attached to it I think - one more sentence should fix any confusion. I also agree about taking the bloodline levels at the last minute as you suggested. Any other input out there is appreciated before I finalize my decision on this. Any folks actually use this method? Off topic... while I was reading the downloadable FAQ's, searching for this bloodline info (there is some bloodline info in the FAQ BTW), I ran across a little tidbit (some of you already know this, I'm sure, but I'm new to these boards)... Prestige classes do not cause the xp penalties as other multiclassing may. This was news to me thanks to my jumping from AD&D straight to 3.5 :-)
gbnogkfs 09-28-06, 07:40 PM	Off topic... while I was reading the downloadable FAQ's, searching for this bloodline info (there is some bloodline info in the FAQ BTW), I ran across a little tidbit (some of you already know this, I'm sure, but I'm new to these boards)... Prestige classes do not cause the xp penalties as other multiclassing may. This was news to me thanks to my jumping from AD&D straight to 3.5 :-) and thanks to WotC refusing to add any errata.