Bored with current D&D [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bored with current D&D [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bob Gein
01-12-06, 04:35 PM A little background: Played D&D from the mid 80s to the mid to late 90s. Came back at the release of 3E and played up until about a year ago. I've discovered I'm bored with the current system, so I'm revamping it (for better or worse). Anyways, I thought I'd jot down some basic ideas and maybe get some opinions on how some of this stuff will mesh. My players have been begging me to DM ever since our last campaign ended. I told them I'd only do it if I could severely mess with the game mechanics and they said they're ok with it.

I wanted a system that started out simple enough, but had the potential to be as complicated as a player wanted to make it at higher levels.

I wanted to completely remove any social stat/skill/ability from the game. I can see why it is in D&D, but for us alot of times it served as more of a dump stat than anything. Roleplaying and reputation would replace it. If someone wants to play a barbarian that has the mannerisms of a prince, I'm going to let them. It'll be more fun this way for us.

I wanted a campaign setting in which the major religion centered around one god. I didn't want to create a world from scratch (a lot of work/work I don't find fun). I chose to use Forgotten Realms set far enough in the future where the players almost wouldn't recognize Faerun. A Faerun where the major religion is monotheistic.

Anyways, I decided to use 8 ability scores. I'll list them below. I won't list the skills associated with each ability score yet because I haven't gotten that far. I also won't list which combat maneuvers depend on which stats.

Strength: Damage rolls
Accuracy: Attack rolls
Agility: Armor bonus, Reflex saves
Constitution: HD bonus, Fort saves
Intelligence: Starting languages, Skill points
Wisdom: Will saves
Perception: Initiative checks
Luck: Modifies all d100 rolls

Ability score generation will be point buy (35 points) which can be distributed among all ability scores except Luck. Luck will be rolled 3d6, what you roll is what you get. This is to reduce the chance of luck becoming a dump stat. Luck is planned for use in some of the weirder PrClasses and magical items I have planned, but I almost omitted the ability. It was at the request of the players that this ability score be included.

Races are undecided.

For classes I was going to start with the generic classes from UA, use a mana point system similar to XPH power point system, and offer a variety of prestige classes (that fit the campaign) available from level 3 and up. Spellcasters will choose Intelligence or Wisdom as their spellcasting stat depending on if they're arcane or divine. Much more work will need to be done on classes... more details to come.

Skills are still being worked on. I'm in the process of getting rid of all the social skills and adding a few skills. Skill points/class skills received from classes will be tweaked when this is finished.

Feats will be need to be adjusted based on skill and combat changes.

Alignment will not be used. Any class/spell that can't function without alignment will be removed, or revamped if possible.

Combat and equipment go hand-in-hand. I'll still be using a Hit Point system for health, but armor will use a DR system. Classes will receive an armor bonus from their class yet to be determined. Other than that, the basics of combat should stay the same.

Magical items will be completely redone. Magical items will be slightly rarer, but more will have unique effects. Magical item creation will be a discoverable process during gameplay. It will be much harder initially, and some form of randomness will be invovled. The longsword +1 will likely not appear in this game.

Because of the PC changes monsters will undergo significant changes. I'm currently in the process of trying to reduce the amount of information required to use a monster in an encounter. Current thoughts were using a base score for abilitys and skills and noting any differences in the monster entry. Something like Base Ability Score equals 10+[1/4*HD]round down. Which could apply to all monsters, and if a creature is known for it's strength, just note the changed Str score in the description. Same basic principle for skills. As far as feats go, I wasn't going to give feats to monsters unless the monster is going to be unique among its kind. Basically, anything to speed up the creation process for adventures.

If anyone's managed to get to the bottom of this post let me thank you for reading all of this. I know this is going to be a huge amount of work, but I enjoy playing with game mechanics. I also know most of what I've written is very vague so far, but I'd still appreciate any input or feedback.
Edymnion
01-12-06, 10:42 PM A few things you might want to look into:

Mutants and Masterminds 2e
Its a fairly heavily modified d20 system, but doesn't have things like hitpoints, or multiple dice. Made for fast cinematic comic book/movie combat.

BESM
Sometimes simpler is better. BESM with the Tri-Stat system reduces everything down to 3 stats (mind, body, and soul), and has really generic rules that can be used for anything from classic D&D style gaming to giant space robot lasergun battles.

Eberron
Uses all the normal D&D d20 rules, but the flavor is totally differant from any other D&D game you've ever been in. Its a true breath of fresh air in a stale game.
Bob Gein
01-12-06, 11:11 PM Thanks for the input. I've checked out Mutants and Masterminds, and the Eberron campaign setting, but I haven't checked into BESM yet. I'll be sure to browse through it if I can find it at the local hobby shop, or if not I'll run a search for reviews. Hackmaster was fun for a while too.

My group plays D&D like a tactical wargame during combat, and almost a diceless world of darkness (game mechanics, not atmosphere) game outside of combat. Other than becoming bored with the current edition of D&D the only thing that's bothered me about it is the increase in DM work in preparing adventures over previous editions.

Action points, and the feel of the eberron campaign setting didn't work for our group, which is weird because we've gamed together through almost all the 2E campaign settings TSR gave us and had a blast in all of them but spelljammer. Oh well, I still plan on checking out DDO when it is released (for those that didn't know, it is set in Eberron).
Xeviat-DM
01-13-06, 01:33 AM Bob, can I call you Bob, would you be avaible for recruiting? I need another person who has a grasp on the rules and a knack for altering them to help me with my campaign setting. I'm also using 8 ability scores (technically nine, but one is a dump/rare score so it doesn't matter much) that are almost exactly yours (str, dex, agi, con, int, wis, per, cha, and void). I use an altered wound/vitality system, will have armor as AC and DR, I use weapon group proficiencies, and a mana based augmentation utilizing spellcasting system.

If you're interested, let me know. I like your ideas so far (except for luck; I'd treat the lucky as people with a feat "Lucky"), and I'd love to have your assistance. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours?
Midget_In_The_Playground
01-13-06, 02:17 AM There is always D20 modern waiting to be discovered... PM me if you want any information or links to information about it.
Edymnion
01-13-06, 04:54 PM I haven't checked into BESM yet. I'll be sure to browse through it if I can find it at the local hobby shop, or if not I'll run a search for reviews.Actually, you can check it out online, as it's core rules are open source, much like the SRD for d20 is, except that it covers everything.

Main site:
http://www.guardiansorder.com/games/besm/

Direct link to the 96 page rules:
http://www.guardiansorder.com/pdfs/goo_TriStatdX.pdf
Fargren
01-13-06, 05:23 PM I love it! If i weren't quite sure we live in different continents, I would join your game.
Bob Gein
01-16-06, 05:17 AM Bob, can I call you Bob, would you be avaible for recruiting? I need another person who has a grasp on the rules and a knack for altering them to help me with my campaign setting. I'm also using 8 ability scores (technically nine, but one is a dump/rare score so it doesn't matter much) that are almost exactly yours (str, dex, agi, con, int, wis, per, cha, and void). I use an altered wound/vitality system, will have armor as AC and DR, I use weapon group proficiencies, and a mana based augmentation utilizing spellcasting system.

If you're interested, let me know. I like your ideas so far (except for luck; I'd treat the lucky as people with a feat "Lucky"), and I'd love to have your assistance. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours?
Sorry for the late response. Life gets busy when you least expect it. As it turns out, if I just modify monsters as I need them and use a preexisting mana point system I'll probably be play testing what I've worked on so far in 3 weeks. If it all works out and I get more time I'll post exactly what I've changed, and what I've stolen from other rpgs. Right now it's taking up half a notebook, with lots of math scribbles thrown in. It's not complete, but it's moving along much faster than I expected.

This is all assuming I can't talk them into trying BESM (thanks again Edymnion).
James_Nostack
01-16-06, 10:38 AM Bob, you might also want to look at The Shadow of Yesterday. I don't want to create a "live" link, but it's pretty easy to Google. It's a free generic fantasy RPG that does a lot of D&D type stuff, but the game mechanics are very different. It might suit your style of play, but then again, maybe the point of this is to have fun by monkeying around with D&D rules themselves.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bob Gein 01-12-06, 04:35 PM	A little background: Played D&D from the mid 80s to the mid to late 90s. Came back at the release of 3E and played up until about a year ago. I've discovered I'm bored with the current system, so I'm revamping it (for better or worse). Anyways, I thought I'd jot down some basic ideas and maybe get some opinions on how some of this stuff will mesh. My players have been begging me to DM ever since our last campaign ended. I told them I'd only do it if I could severely mess with the game mechanics and they said they're ok with it. I wanted a system that started out simple enough, but had the potential to be as complicated as a player wanted to make it at higher levels. I wanted to completely remove any social stat/skill/ability from the game. I can see why it is in D&D, but for us alot of times it served as more of a dump stat than anything. Roleplaying and reputation would replace it. If someone wants to play a barbarian that has the mannerisms of a prince, I'm going to let them. It'll be more fun this way for us. I wanted a campaign setting in which the major religion centered around one god. I didn't want to create a world from scratch (a lot of work/work I don't find fun). I chose to use Forgotten Realms set far enough in the future where the players almost wouldn't recognize Faerun. A Faerun where the major religion is monotheistic. Anyways, I decided to use 8 ability scores. I'll list them below. I won't list the skills associated with each ability score yet because I haven't gotten that far. I also won't list which combat maneuvers depend on which stats. Strength: Damage rolls Accuracy: Attack rolls Agility: Armor bonus, Reflex saves Constitution: HD bonus, Fort saves Intelligence: Starting languages, Skill points Wisdom: Will saves Perception: Initiative checks Luck: Modifies all d100 rolls Ability score generation will be point buy (35 points) which can be distributed among all ability scores except Luck. Luck will be rolled 3d6, what you roll is what you get. This is to reduce the chance of luck becoming a dump stat. Luck is planned for use in some of the weirder PrClasses and magical items I have planned, but I almost omitted the ability. It was at the request of the players that this ability score be included. Races are undecided. For classes I was going to start with the generic classes from UA, use a mana point system similar to XPH power point system, and offer a variety of prestige classes (that fit the campaign) available from level 3 and up. Spellcasters will choose Intelligence or Wisdom as their spellcasting stat depending on if they're arcane or divine. Much more work will need to be done on classes... more details to come. Skills are still being worked on. I'm in the process of getting rid of all the social skills and adding a few skills. Skill points/class skills received from classes will be tweaked when this is finished. Feats will be need to be adjusted based on skill and combat changes. Alignment will not be used. Any class/spell that can't function without alignment will be removed, or revamped if possible. Combat and equipment go hand-in-hand. I'll still be using a Hit Point system for health, but armor will use a DR system. Classes will receive an armor bonus from their class yet to be determined. Other than that, the basics of combat should stay the same. Magical items will be completely redone. Magical items will be slightly rarer, but more will have unique effects. Magical item creation will be a discoverable process during gameplay. It will be much harder initially, and some form of randomness will be invovled. The longsword +1 will likely not appear in this game. Because of the PC changes monsters will undergo significant changes. I'm currently in the process of trying to reduce the amount of information required to use a monster in an encounter. Current thoughts were using a base score for abilitys and skills and noting any differences in the monster entry. Something like Base Ability Score equals 10+[1/4*HD]round down. Which could apply to all monsters, and if a creature is known for it's strength, just note the changed Str score in the description. Same basic principle for skills. As far as feats go, I wasn't going to give feats to monsters unless the monster is going to be unique among its kind. Basically, anything to speed up the creation process for adventures. If anyone's managed to get to the bottom of this post let me thank you for reading all of this. I know this is going to be a huge amount of work, but I enjoy playing with game mechanics. I also know most of what I've written is very vague so far, but I'd still appreciate any input or feedback.
Edymnion 01-12-06, 10:42 PM	A few things you might want to look into: Mutants and Masterminds 2e Its a fairly heavily modified d20 system, but doesn't have things like hitpoints, or multiple dice. Made for fast cinematic comic book/movie combat. BESM Sometimes simpler is better. BESM with the Tri-Stat system reduces everything down to 3 stats (mind, body, and soul), and has really generic rules that can be used for anything from classic D&D style gaming to giant space robot lasergun battles. Eberron Uses all the normal D&D d20 rules, but the flavor is totally differant from any other D&D game you've ever been in. Its a true breath of fresh air in a stale game.
Bob Gein 01-12-06, 11:11 PM	Thanks for the input. I've checked out Mutants and Masterminds, and the Eberron campaign setting, but I haven't checked into BESM yet. I'll be sure to browse through it if I can find it at the local hobby shop, or if not I'll run a search for reviews. Hackmaster was fun for a while too. My group plays D&D like a tactical wargame during combat, and almost a diceless world of darkness (game mechanics, not atmosphere) game outside of combat. Other than becoming bored with the current edition of D&D the only thing that's bothered me about it is the increase in DM work in preparing adventures over previous editions. Action points, and the feel of the eberron campaign setting didn't work for our group, which is weird because we've gamed together through almost all the 2E campaign settings TSR gave us and had a blast in all of them but spelljammer. Oh well, I still plan on checking out DDO when it is released (for those that didn't know, it is set in Eberron).
Xeviat-DM 01-13-06, 01:33 AM	Bob, can I call you Bob, would you be avaible for recruiting? I need another person who has a grasp on the rules and a knack for altering them to help me with my campaign setting. I'm also using 8 ability scores (technically nine, but one is a dump/rare score so it doesn't matter much) that are almost exactly yours (str, dex, agi, con, int, wis, per, cha, and void). I use an altered wound/vitality system, will have armor as AC and DR, I use weapon group proficiencies, and a mana based augmentation utilizing spellcasting system. If you're interested, let me know. I like your ideas so far (except for luck; I'd treat the lucky as people with a feat "Lucky"), and I'd love to have your assistance. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours?
Midget_In_The_Playground 01-13-06, 02:17 AM	There is always D20 modern waiting to be discovered... PM me if you want any information or links to information about it.
Edymnion 01-13-06, 04:54 PM	I haven't checked into BESM yet. I'll be sure to browse through it if I can find it at the local hobby shop, or if not I'll run a search for reviews.Actually, you can check it out online, as it's core rules are open source, much like the SRD for d20 is, except that it covers everything. Main site: http://www.guardiansorder.com/games/besm/ Direct link to the 96 page rules: http://www.guardiansorder.com/pdfs/goo_TriStatdX.pdf
Fargren 01-13-06, 05:23 PM	I love it! If i weren't quite sure we live in different continents, I would join your game.
Bob Gein 01-16-06, 05:17 AM	Bob, can I call you Bob, would you be avaible for recruiting? I need another person who has a grasp on the rules and a knack for altering them to help me with my campaign setting. I'm also using 8 ability scores (technically nine, but one is a dump/rare score so it doesn't matter much) that are almost exactly yours (str, dex, agi, con, int, wis, per, cha, and void). I use an altered wound/vitality system, will have armor as AC and DR, I use weapon group proficiencies, and a mana based augmentation utilizing spellcasting system. If you're interested, let me know. I like your ideas so far (except for luck; I'd treat the lucky as people with a feat "Lucky"), and I'd love to have your assistance. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours? Sorry for the late response. Life gets busy when you least expect it. As it turns out, if I just modify monsters as I need them and use a preexisting mana point system I'll probably be play testing what I've worked on so far in 3 weeks. If it all works out and I get more time I'll post exactly what I've changed, and what I've stolen from other rpgs. Right now it's taking up half a notebook, with lots of math scribbles thrown in. It's not complete, but it's moving along much faster than I expected. This is all assuming I can't talk them into trying BESM (thanks again Edymnion).
James_Nostack 01-16-06, 10:38 AM	Bob, you might also want to look at The Shadow of Yesterday. I don't want to create a "live" link, but it's pretty easy to Google. It's a free generic fantasy RPG that does a lot of D&D type stuff, but the game mechanics are very different. It might suit your style of play, but then again, maybe the point of this is to have fun by monkeying around with D&D rules themselves.