Building a new magic user core class to replace all other [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a new magic user core class to replace all other [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BrainMole
04-06-05, 07:05 AM So, I´m trying to create a new campaign little like Wh40k system. Magic is outlawed art and magic users are hunted like animals by emperors forces. But todays issue is the Mage core class. I need some new kind of mage in to it. After few thoughts on the subject I´m leaning to combination of Wizard, Sorcerer, Psion, Wilder and a hint of a Dark Side Jedi. Basicly I would like spells to advance in strenght like psion. No spellbooks. Taint system pretty much like Dark Side with according effects. Few custom abilities and there you go.

And yes, I now I could make a taint using psion but I need something more...

Any ideas.
Lina_Inverse
04-06-05, 09:32 AM question.how does anyone stop the magic users.

D&D charecters are nothing but there magic.
BrainMole
04-06-05, 12:07 PM Well, the new campaing has PrCs to hunt Mages and it introduces new house rules to the game. And as the game takes a lot of influence from Warhammer 40.000 so it's a Scifi-Fantasy game. Magic users are stopped with firearms.

But back to the Mage itself. Think about the Sith from Star Wars. I'm thinking something like it. Magic corrupts and that is why people have laws against it.
JohnSnow
04-06-05, 03:58 PM One big suggestion.

You should check out the Midnight campaign setting from Fantasy Flight Games (www.fantasyflightgames.com). Midnight is dark fantasy D&D, and many people (its creators included) have summed the flavor of the setting up as "The Lord of the Rings...if Frodo had failed and Sauron won." That is not, of course, strictly accurate as the Midnight world is NOT Middle Earth, but it sets the theme.

The reason this is relevant to what you're doing is that Midnight implemented some very nice variant rules to capture the feel of the setting. Midnight accomplishes this several ways. Some are "rules-related" and some are "setting-related" and some are "both." However, its creators acknowledge the magic-based balance of the d20 system and "adjust" for the "rare magic" feel. Here are some of the things that the system does.

1. Midnight does away with ALL the PC classes that cast spells. No wizards, clerics, druids, bards, sorcerers, paladins or rangers. It also dumps the monk for flavor reasons.

2. Spellcasting becomes feat-based, so that any character can learn spells. Spellcasting now requires a feat (Magecraft) to be able to cast spells, and a feat (Spellcasting {school}) for each school of magic. Two schools (conjuration and evocation) are broken into Lesser and Greater schools. The most "powerful" (and flavorfully problematic) spells are moved into the Greater schools.

3. Spellcasting comes in 3 distinct "flavors," based on what ability score "powers" your casting. Spiritual channelers use wisdom, hermetic channelers are INT-based, and I think you can figure out what ability Charismatic channelers use.

4. Spells take spell energy to cast equal to their level, so a 1st level spell costs 1 spell energy. Casters get spell energy equal to their spellcasting ability score modifier. When a character runs out of spell energy, they can cast spells by causing spell damage. Spell damage is temporary CON damage equal to the spell energy cost. It goes away with a good night's rest. Rituals and talismans exist which can lower the spell energy cost. Some specialized classes also get extra spell energy (see below).

5. Casting level = character level. The spell energy system automatically makes dedicated spellcasters are better spellcasters. Characters can learn spells of a level equal to one-half their character level (rounded down). So you have to be 2nd level to cast 1st level spells, 4th for 2nd, and so on.

5. Learning new spells, beyond the few you learn from the spellcasting feats (or from certain classes - see below), takes XP.

6. A new class is created (Channeler) that is particularly adept at spellcasting. The Channeler is based loosely on the core Bard, with Medium BAB, 6 skill points per level, bonus magic feats, a granted ability (which depends on the "flavor" of channeler) and improved "facility" with magic. Specifically, Channelers get free access to a few schools of magic (as they level up), spell energy equal to their class level, a couple of free "spells known" every level, and reduced XP costs to learn spells. Characters with more levels in Channeler than any other class can add "1" to their character level before dividing by 2 to determine the level of spell they can cast. Or, put another way, Channeler-types round UP instead of down. So a Channeler (or primarily Channeler) can cast 2nd-level spells at level 3, rather than waiting until level 4.

7. Characters get fewer magic items per level. They might, however, get "covenant items" which gain extra abilities as the character levels up. This just serves to cut down on the "Christmas tree effect." To make up for the slight drop in power, characters get "heroic paths," which are sort of like UA bloodlines, that boost their abilities. Midnight's PC races are also slightly more powerful than in standard D&D.

8. Another method used both to explain the world and maintain its feel is the Sundering. The Sundering is a separation of the world from the outer planes. As such, spells which rely on other planes DON'T work. That means no Summoning of extra-planar creatures (some are, however, "trapped") and no contact with deities. Incorporeal creatures still exist, but the sundering forbids travel to and from the Ethereal plane. This also means the spells blink, etherealness and ethereal jaunt, dimension door and the various teleport spells, plane shift, astral projection, lesser planar binding, and planar binding DO NOT WORK. Gate cannot be used to travel between planes, and its other function only works on creatures already in the world. Also because of the Sundering, any spell exclusive to the Cleric or Paladin lists is not available to Channelers. Spells from any other list are acceptable and their spell level is their lowest level on any list (often the Bard or Ranger lists).

9. Finally, since the Dark God has overrun the world, his magic sniffers are EVERYWHERE. And therefore, using magic can bring hordes of evil beings down on your head. Be warned.

I like Midnight as a setting but I'm very intrigued by the possibility of using the Channeler class and the magic system in other settings as well. I think it's a FASCINATING system. For the record, Channelers seem a bit more powerful than core spellcasters at low levels, about the same at the middle levels, and less powerful at high levels. I don't know about the rest of you, but that strikes me as a good thing.

Those are the BASICS of the Midnight magic changes. I'd explained the system so many times anytime low-magic," "rare magic" or "hunted spellcasters" came up in discussion that I finally decided to type the summary in a file. The mechanics of the system are of course OGL, and I'm happy to answer questions that don't tread on the copyright, but I'd encourage anyone who's really interested to check it out.

Just FYI, there's a second edition campaign book due out in May, and the designers are changing some things about the system in response to player feedback. So you might want to wait and order the 2nd edition rather than running out and buying the original CSB (which had some binding issues anyway).

And I believe Midnight proves that what most people refer to as "low magic D&D" (usually actually meaning "rare magic") can work. You just have to take the differences into account. Just my two cents.
BrainMole
04-07-05, 12:27 AM One big suggestion.

You should check out the Midnight campaign setting from Fantasy Flight Games

I already have the Midnight setting. I haven´t thought of that much but it is a great bottom line to start building the Mage. Feat based spell casting/ skill-based spellcasting is going to be the key element in the campaign from now on.

I like the psionic powers as they scale in power more than spells so I thought to add that thing into the class. Power points = Mana points or something like that. The mage would be a much like a Psionic channeler variant for Midnight so his has embraced the magic that so many has deemed evil. Another idea is the Taint or some other name for it. I don´t know if I'm gonna make it that the campaing has good spellcasters and evil spellcasters or only evil ones. Good vs. Evil would be pretty much like the Jedi vs. Sith. But the taint thing is the problem. The Taint in the UA seems little generic so I need some nice flavor and such. The basics would be like jedi falling into dark side. Example a guy has found a book detailing spellcasting but discards it as forbidden art and then goes to work. The work is physically hard and the guy is tempted to find a easier path so he reads from the book how it could be done. Then he starts to use his new spellcasting abilities and soon realizes that he has some addiction to it. Why lift a stone by hands when you can do it by magic. After a while the effects of magic using start to show. Eyes change in color. Skin begomes stone-like or other effects just like the Sith using the Dark Side.

Any suggestions how to make it?
krichaiushii
04-10-05, 10:20 AM I can't comment much on how to make your caster, BrainMole, but I will say that I now understand the draw of Midnight, and must now strive to purchase it.

Thanks, JohnSnow! ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BrainMole 04-06-05, 07:05 AM	So, I´m trying to create a new campaign little like Wh40k system. Magic is outlawed art and magic users are hunted like animals by emperors forces. But todays issue is the Mage core class. I need some new kind of mage in to it. After few thoughts on the subject I´m leaning to combination of Wizard, Sorcerer, Psion, Wilder and a hint of a Dark Side Jedi. Basicly I would like spells to advance in strenght like psion. No spellbooks. Taint system pretty much like Dark Side with according effects. Few custom abilities and there you go. And yes, I now I could make a taint using psion but I need something more... Any ideas.
Lina_Inverse 04-06-05, 09:32 AM	question.how does anyone stop the magic users. D&D charecters are nothing but there magic.
BrainMole 04-06-05, 12:07 PM	Well, the new campaing has PrCs to hunt Mages and it introduces new house rules to the game. And as the game takes a lot of influence from Warhammer 40.000 so it's a Scifi-Fantasy game. Magic users are stopped with firearms. But back to the Mage itself. Think about the Sith from Star Wars. I'm thinking something like it. Magic corrupts and that is why people have laws against it.
JohnSnow 04-06-05, 03:58 PM	One big suggestion. You should check out the Midnight campaign setting from Fantasy Flight Games (www.fantasyflightgames.com). Midnight is dark fantasy D&D, and many people (its creators included) have summed the flavor of the setting up as "The Lord of the Rings...if Frodo had failed and Sauron won." That is not, of course, strictly accurate as the Midnight world is NOT Middle Earth, but it sets the theme. The reason this is relevant to what you're doing is that Midnight implemented some very nice variant rules to capture the feel of the setting. Midnight accomplishes this several ways. Some are "rules-related" and some are "setting-related" and some are "both." However, its creators acknowledge the magic-based balance of the d20 system and "adjust" for the "rare magic" feel. Here are some of the things that the system does. 1. Midnight does away with ALL the PC classes that cast spells. No wizards, clerics, druids, bards, sorcerers, paladins or rangers. It also dumps the monk for flavor reasons. 2. Spellcasting becomes feat-based, so that any character can learn spells. Spellcasting now requires a feat (Magecraft) to be able to cast spells, and a feat (Spellcasting {school}) for each school of magic. Two schools (conjuration and evocation) are broken into Lesser and Greater schools. The most "powerful" (and flavorfully problematic) spells are moved into the Greater schools. 3. Spellcasting comes in 3 distinct "flavors," based on what ability score "powers" your casting. Spiritual channelers use wisdom, hermetic channelers are INT-based, and I think you can figure out what ability Charismatic channelers use. 4. Spells take spell energy to cast equal to their level, so a 1st level spell costs 1 spell energy. Casters get spell energy equal to their spellcasting ability score modifier. When a character runs out of spell energy, they can cast spells by causing spell damage. Spell damage is temporary CON damage equal to the spell energy cost. It goes away with a good night's rest. Rituals and talismans exist which can lower the spell energy cost. Some specialized classes also get extra spell energy (see below). 5. Casting level = character level. The spell energy system automatically makes dedicated spellcasters are better spellcasters. Characters can learn spells of a level equal to one-half their character level (rounded down). So you have to be 2nd level to cast 1st level spells, 4th for 2nd, and so on. 5. Learning new spells, beyond the few you learn from the spellcasting feats (or from certain classes - see below), takes XP. 6. A new class is created (Channeler) that is particularly adept at spellcasting. The Channeler is based loosely on the core Bard, with Medium BAB, 6 skill points per level, bonus magic feats, a granted ability (which depends on the "flavor" of channeler) and improved "facility" with magic. Specifically, Channelers get free access to a few schools of magic (as they level up), spell energy equal to their class level, a couple of free "spells known" every level, and reduced XP costs to learn spells. Characters with more levels in Channeler than any other class can add "1" to their character level before dividing by 2 to determine the level of spell they can cast. Or, put another way, Channeler-types round UP instead of down. So a Channeler (or primarily Channeler) can cast 2nd-level spells at level 3, rather than waiting until level 4. 7. Characters get fewer magic items per level. They might, however, get "covenant items" which gain extra abilities as the character levels up. This just serves to cut down on the "Christmas tree effect." To make up for the slight drop in power, characters get "heroic paths," which are sort of like UA bloodlines, that boost their abilities. Midnight's PC races are also slightly more powerful than in standard D&D. 8. Another method used both to explain the world and maintain its feel is the Sundering. The Sundering is a separation of the world from the outer planes. As such, spells which rely on other planes DON'T work. That means no Summoning of extra-planar creatures (some are, however, "trapped") and no contact with deities. Incorporeal creatures still exist, but the sundering forbids travel to and from the Ethereal plane. This also means the spells blink, etherealness and ethereal jaunt, dimension door and the various teleport spells, plane shift, astral projection, lesser planar binding, and planar binding DO NOT WORK. Gate cannot be used to travel between planes, and its other function only works on creatures already in the world. Also because of the Sundering, any spell exclusive to the Cleric or Paladin lists is not available to Channelers. Spells from any other list are acceptable and their spell level is their lowest level on any list (often the Bard or Ranger lists). 9. Finally, since the Dark God has overrun the world, his magic sniffers are EVERYWHERE. And therefore, using magic can bring hordes of evil beings down on your head. Be warned. I like Midnight as a setting but I'm very intrigued by the possibility of using the Channeler class and the magic system in other settings as well. I think it's a FASCINATING system. For the record, Channelers seem a bit more powerful than core spellcasters at low levels, about the same at the middle levels, and less powerful at high levels. I don't know about the rest of you, but that strikes me as a good thing. Those are the BASICS of the Midnight magic changes. I'd explained the system so many times anytime low-magic," "rare magic" or "hunted spellcasters" came up in discussion that I finally decided to type the summary in a file. The mechanics of the system are of course OGL, and I'm happy to answer questions that don't tread on the copyright, but I'd encourage anyone who's really interested to check it out. Just FYI, there's a second edition campaign book due out in May, and the designers are changing some things about the system in response to player feedback. So you might want to wait and order the 2nd edition rather than running out and buying the original CSB (which had some binding issues anyway). And I believe Midnight proves that what most people refer to as "low magic D&D" (usually actually meaning "rare magic") can work. You just have to take the differences into account. Just my two cents.
BrainMole 04-07-05, 12:27 AM	One big suggestion. You should check out the Midnight campaign setting from Fantasy Flight Games I already have the Midnight setting. I haven´t thought of that much but it is a great bottom line to start building the Mage. Feat based spell casting/ skill-based spellcasting is going to be the key element in the campaign from now on. I like the psionic powers as they scale in power more than spells so I thought to add that thing into the class. Power points = Mana points or something like that. The mage would be a much like a Psionic channeler variant for Midnight so his has embraced the magic that so many has deemed evil. Another idea is the Taint or some other name for it. I don´t know if I'm gonna make it that the campaing has good spellcasters and evil spellcasters or only evil ones. Good vs. Evil would be pretty much like the Jedi vs. Sith. But the taint thing is the problem. The Taint in the UA seems little generic so I need some nice flavor and such. The basics would be like jedi falling into dark side. Example a guy has found a book detailing spellcasting but discards it as forbidden art and then goes to work. The work is physically hard and the guy is tempted to find a easier path so he reads from the book how it could be done. Then he starts to use his new spellcasting abilities and soon realizes that he has some addiction to it. Why lift a stone by hands when you can do it by magic. After a while the effects of magic using start to show. Eyes change in color. Skin begomes stone-like or other effects just like the Sith using the Dark Side. Any suggestions how to make it?
krichaiushii 04-10-05, 10:20 AM	I can't comment much on how to make your caster, BrainMole, but I will say that I now understand the draw of Midnight, and must now strive to purchase it. Thanks, JohnSnow! ;)