Buying Off LA Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Buying Off LA Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daymare
04-14-04, 02:09 AM Allright guys, I've got a question for ya... I think I am simply not understanding something about Buying off LA, but I'm not sure...

Let's say I'm playing an Drow Fighter (+2 LA)
I have just reached Fighter 6 (ECL 8) and want to buy off one of my LA's.

I currently have 29,000 xp.
It costs me 7,000 xp to lower my level adjustment.

I am now a 6th Level Drow Fighter with a +1 LA (ECL 7)
I now have 22,000

I'm pretty sure I am right up to this point, but after this is where I think I may get fuzzy.

At ECL 7 with 22,000 xp I only need 6,000 xp to reach level 8 and gain another class level.

At ECL 8 with 29,000 xp I needed 7,000 xp to reach level 9 and gain another class level....

Am I the only one to see something fishy here....
Sure you lose xp but as far as getting class levels goes (which is what really matters...) it doesn't hinder you at all, it in fact HELPS you. Not to mention that you are now gaining XP faster than before from being a lower ECL...

This can't be right, can it?
Is there no downside or penalty incured by a creature with a LA taking this option or am I just not seeing it? any insight you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Darok
04-14-04, 10:30 AM no penalty. its because LA inevitably weakens a character (especially the low LA chars, b/c they don't get anything very powerful)
Ertai Planeswalker
04-14-04, 10:34 AM Well it's very simple actually:

To buy of your first LA, you need to have three times as much hit dice as your LA. So a drow needs to have at least 6 HD before he can buy off his first LA, since his LA is 2. (And 3 x 2 = 6, but you probably figured that out by yourself.)

Now you have acquired 29000Xp. That means you now have 6 Hitdice, and are ECL 8.

You buy off your first LA for 7000Xp. ((ECL-1)*1000) Now you have 22000Xp left, and you still have 6 Hitdice, only your LA is now +1. That means that from this point on, you have to gain another three levels (Three times LA) before you can buy off your 2nd LA.

So once you have acquired 9HD, you'll be ECL10, so you pay another 9000Xp, and now you're a 9th level char, without LA.

You have payed a total of 16000XP for the right to play a more powerfull race than normal. Considering the abilities of a Drow, it's not worth the cost, but that's a different discussion.

Does that make it any clearer?

Edit: I typed all this as a response, only to realize that that was not your question, but i'll leave it up there anyway.

As for the answer to your question: Yes, it only offers benefits for people playing an ECL character. But then again, having an ecl really, really sucks. The higher the level, the more you feel the lack of power. Thus, with this rule, you pay a set amount of XP over the course of your career, in exchange for the abilities granted by the template/race.

Take half celestial for example. My group has one, and i ruled it a +3 LA template. The player, over the course of his career, will pay a grand total of 45000Xp, in exchange for the template. That is the equivalent of 225000Gp item, so it's not like it's overpowering or anything.
Vaelan
04-14-04, 10:39 AM Lower ECL characters get more exp for the same encounters, so you aren't really that far behind at any point. You do take a slight exp hit, but eventually the exp hit is about as important as your racial abilities... which is to say not very important at all.
canamrock
04-15-04, 11:35 AM Originally posted by Daymare
This can't be right, can it?
Is there no downside or penalty incured by a creature with a LA taking this option or am I just not seeing it? any insight you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

If the LA system was designed to be properly balanced out of the box, then yes, this would be entirely beneficial.

However, this is not the case. The system was dually punished, first by the design team's active overcosting of the LA values for what powers you get, and secondly by the problem with charging for non-scaling abilities on a scaling system.

In other words, the point to this variant is that nearly all races with LA's are inherently inferior by design. Looking at it this way, you're not so much gaining a benefit as much as you are overcoming a design flaw.

I hope this helps some.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daymare 04-14-04, 02:09 AM	Allright guys, I've got a question for ya... I think I am simply not understanding something about Buying off LA, but I'm not sure... Let's say I'm playing an Drow Fighter (+2 LA) I have just reached Fighter 6 (ECL 8) and want to buy off one of my LA's. I currently have 29,000 xp. It costs me 7,000 xp to lower my level adjustment. I am now a 6th Level Drow Fighter with a +1 LA (ECL 7) I now have 22,000 I'm pretty sure I am right up to this point, but after this is where I think I may get fuzzy. At ECL 7 with 22,000 xp I only need 6,000 xp to reach level 8 and gain another class level. At ECL 8 with 29,000 xp I needed 7,000 xp to reach level 9 and gain another class level.... Am I the only one to see something fishy here.... Sure you lose xp but as far as getting class levels goes (which is what really matters...) it doesn't hinder you at all, it in fact HELPS you. Not to mention that you are now gaining XP faster than before from being a lower ECL... This can't be right, can it? Is there no downside or penalty incured by a creature with a LA taking this option or am I just not seeing it? any insight you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Darok 04-14-04, 10:30 AM	no penalty. its because LA inevitably weakens a character (especially the low LA chars, b/c they don't get anything very powerful)
Ertai Planeswalker 04-14-04, 10:34 AM	Well it's very simple actually: To buy of your first LA, you need to have three times as much hit dice as your LA. So a drow needs to have at least 6 HD before he can buy off his first LA, since his LA is 2. (And 3 x 2 = 6, but you probably figured that out by yourself.) Now you have acquired 29000Xp. That means you now have 6 Hitdice, and are ECL 8. You buy off your first LA for 7000Xp. ((ECL-1)*1000) Now you have 22000Xp left, and you still have 6 Hitdice, only your LA is now +1. That means that from this point on, you have to gain another three levels (Three times LA) before you can buy off your 2nd LA. So once you have acquired 9HD, you'll be ECL10, so you pay another 9000Xp, and now you're a 9th level char, without LA. You have payed a total of 16000XP for the right to play a more powerfull race than normal. Considering the abilities of a Drow, it's not worth the cost, but that's a different discussion. Does that make it any clearer? Edit: I typed all this as a response, only to realize that that was not your question, but i'll leave it up there anyway. As for the answer to your question: Yes, it only offers benefits for people playing an ECL character. But then again, having an ecl really, really sucks. The higher the level, the more you feel the lack of power. Thus, with this rule, you pay a set amount of XP over the course of your career, in exchange for the abilities granted by the template/race. Take half celestial for example. My group has one, and i ruled it a +3 LA template. The player, over the course of his career, will pay a grand total of 45000Xp, in exchange for the template. That is the equivalent of 225000Gp item, so it's not like it's overpowering or anything.
Vaelan 04-14-04, 10:39 AM	Lower ECL characters get more exp for the same encounters, so you aren't really that far behind at any point. You do take a slight exp hit, but eventually the exp hit is about as important as your racial abilities... which is to say not very important at all.
canamrock 04-15-04, 11:35 AM	Originally posted by Daymare This can't be right, can it? Is there no downside or penalty incured by a creature with a LA taking this option or am I just not seeing it? any insight you can give me would be greatly appreciated. If the LA system was designed to be properly balanced out of the box, then yes, this would be entirely beneficial. However, this is not the case. The system was dually punished, first by the design team's active overcosting of the LA values for what powers you get, and secondly by the problem with charging for non-scaling abilities on a scaling system. In other words, the point to this variant is that nearly all races with LA's are inherently inferior by design. Looking at it this way, you're not so much gaining a benefit as much as you are overcoming a design flaw. I hope this helps some.