Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rydi123 10-10-06, 11:48 AM	Wouldn't it be nice to put all the neat alternate rules that we come up with to use? See how they mesh, what people like best, how they can best be implemented, etc.? Or maybe just take all those cool story ideas we have and use them to create a cohesive, well-defined world? Well, we can. The Alternate Rules Collaboritive Campaign Project The Rules: Every few days, the thread will be updated with a new topic, and a list of material to vote on. Posters may also submit other ideas/rules/material on the topic to be added to the voting list. Posters will vote from the options available, and after the voting stops the option with the highest number of votes will be incorporated into the campaign world. The runners up in a given vote will be incorporated to a lesser extent when possible. What is this all for anyway? Well, once the campaign world is created, it can be used as a resource by everyone on the boards, people can run campaigns in it, and see how the alternate rules they toss around actually apply. It is even possible that we could do a game on the boards using these rules, if someone wants to step up to the DM plate. But most of all, it is an exercise in seeing how rules impact each other, and of creating a balanced, well-working system that matches the feel of the play world. The List This section covers all the topics that we will have to decide on before the campaign world is complete. It is divided into two categories: 1)Setting Design, and 2)Rules Design. Setting Design This category must be defined before rules can be decided upon, as rules are only good so long as they are supporting the flavor and feel of the game they were created for. Some, though certainly not all, of the things that must be decided in the preliminary stage are: Genre/Setting- Horror/Post-Apocalyptic (Evil, Triumphant?-The final battle between good and evil, which was prophesied for thousands of years, finally occured. But good did not win. The infernal host was to powerful, due to an unprecedented alliance of both demons and devils who put aside thier ages old conflict long enough to destroy the heavenly host. Since that fateful day, the people of the plane have been little more than slaves to the whims of the infernal creatures, who with the heavenly host defeated, have resumed thier blood war. Level of Magic- Limited Magic (with a corrupting element) Magic/Psionic/Divine Transparency?-Psionics and Divine are different Level of Technology- High Sci/Fi pre-apocalypse, Iron Age/Medieval post apocalypse Gritty/cinematic Ratio (read power-level)-Normal World Climate/Geography-Extreme climates (the world has moved towards areas of burning heat, freezing cold, and severe storms), and 2 large continents with a few islands World Political Structure- Races Present-Standard, except whisper gnomes replace standard gnomes and halflings, and tieflings and half-fiends are much more common The Resistance a. In the Shadow of Dragons- As the Demonic hordes washed over the world, dragonkind formed an alliance. Dragons would not be dominated by demons and devils, and they would not let such creatures seize thier most precious treasure, thier world, from them. Even the evil dragons refused to side with the demons, since that would mean submitting to their will. While the heavenly host was dying in the skies above them, the greatest wyrms of all the chromatics, crystals, and metalics came together to create a great shield over thier lands, a shield to throw back the demonic invaders, and behind which the dragons could carefully prepare for the demons' downfall... g. A Question- In the great battle, one of the great generals of hell killed the lord of the celestial host. While the angel was on its knees, rather than beg for its life, the angel simply asked "Why? Can you think of nothing better to create than this?" Even as the Demon's axe came crashing down upon the angel, the question worked its way into the demons mind. As the world was stripped, and the infernal creature saw the beauty that was being destroyed, and looked at the hell the were creating, something changed in its heart. It saw finally the glory of the light, and it was saddened at all it had done. the demon acted no different, lest its companions destroy it, but in secret the demon fostered the resistance of the few remaining free mortals, in hopes that beauty and good might not die... What happened to the Gods b. Free to Choose- Though both the good and evil gods wished to interfere in the war, the neutral gods refused to allow it. The pacts of old must be maintained; the gods must allow thier followers freedom to choose the course of thier existence. the only interference allowed to the gods is through thier clerics. As the war came to a close, the evil gods laughed, the good mourned, and the neutral knew what the others did not: that the multiverse itself would be destroyed if the gods were allowed to war with one another. psionics a. Psionics replace magic as the primary supernatural ability in the world, as individuals turn inward to avoid the corruption caused by magic. Demons hunt down those that can practice psionics and psions are feared by the populace, with many seeing it as just another form of corrupting magic. Rules Design Once the Setting design is approaching completion, we will be able to start on this one.
rydi123 10-10-06, 12:06 PM	The Topic and Voting Page This page will be used to list the current topic, list the submissions, and update the votes. ------------------------------------------ OK, this one is going to be kind of long. I'm going to go over the UA checklist to start out the alternate rules section (we will tailor the rules selected further in later votes, as well as adding other rules). Also, i will be asking some more questions about the nature of the deities, and going over a few other alternate rules. Unearthed Arcana {Check all that apply; the easiest way to do this is just to copy/paste and then check or otherwise indicate the rules you want to see} 1.Environment/elemental races {xx} 2.Bloodlines {xxxx} 3.Racial Paragon classes {xxxx} -- 4.Varient classes {xxxx} 5.Prestigious base classes {xxxx} 6.Generic Classes {xxx} 7.Traits {xx} 8.Flaws {xxx} 9.Spelltouched feats {xxx} 10.Weapon Groups {xx} -- 11.Defense Bonus {xxxx} 12.Armor as DR {xxxx} 13.Massive damage {xx} 14.Death and Dying {xxxx} 15.Action points {xxx} 16.Combat Facing {xx} 17.Hex Grid {xxx} 18.Variable Mods {xx} 19.Bell Curve rolls -- 20.Magic Rating {xxx} 21.Metamagic components {xx} 22.Spontaneous Metamagic {xx} 23.Spell Points {xx} 24.Recharge magic {xxx} 25.Legendary Weapons {xxx} 26.Item Familiars {xxx} 27.Incantations {xxx} -- 28.Contacts {xxx} 29.Reputation {xxx} 30.Honor {xx} 31.Taint {xxx} 32.Taint-Based Prestige classes {xx} 33.Sanity {xx} Other Alternate Rules {as above, check all that apply} 1.No crits/fumbles {x} 2.Healing converts Lethal to non-lethal damage, which then heals as normal {xxx} 3.Keen stacks w/improved crit {xxxx} 4.Open ended crits {xxx} 5.Alternate skill system (specifics decided later) {x} 6.Varient Alignment system (specifics decided later) 7.Out of Turn Dodge {x} 8.Fixed Defense Bonus {xx} 9.Reducing Level Adjustment. {xxx} 10.-- 11.-- 13.suggest something else, and i will put it up here for vote Deities a. Esoteric Deities (Deities deal with over-arching concepts like fate, life, death, good, evil. They are less concerned with the material world and tend to manifest in vague or symbolic ways.) {x /} b. Mundane/materialistic? Deities (Deities are concerned with certain aspects of life, such as farming, crafts, dance, childbirth, etc. They are very interested in the material world and tend to walk the world in mortal form, or to manifest in showy-i'm-a-giant-god fashion) {xx /} Deities continued please submit a deity or three that you would like to see, and that would serve as examples of the pantheon. these can be as detailed or as vague as you want. I just need some sort of idea what people want (when submitting, keep in mind that last vote we did determined that the pantheon is a balanced one regarding alignment). xxxx 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. 32. 33. 34. 35. a. b. c. d. e. f. g. h. i. j. ENJOY!
Cherubaddon 10-11-06, 09:31 PM	The Topic and Voting Page This page will be used to list the current topic, list the submissions, and update the votes. The first Category that needs to be determined is the Genre of fantasy, and the abundance of magic. Is the setting dark and harsh (ravenloft, dark sun), fantastic (forgotten realms, planescape), based on real world cultures (rokugan), set in a more standardized medieval era, or something else entirely? Is this going to be a high magic setting where everyone and their grandmother uses magic, or is it going to be a setting where even a bardic cantrip strikes fear and awe in the local townsfolk? I want to hear what you some more categories are before i list them here, but once i see a few ideas I will update this with the final categories for voting. ENJOY! I like the idea of a dark Horror campaign (check out my thread about it), with arcane magic being a powerful yet dangerous tool of corruption.
Braids 10-11-06, 11:33 PM	I am also quite interested in a Horrow Campaign. I like the idea of having Magic exist, but be rare. Heros and Villains should have magic, but normal folk should rely on more mundane items.
rydi123 10-12-06, 03:04 AM	hmmm... horror is certainly an interesting and mostly unexplored genre for wizards, so there is a lot of room for development. even with ravenloft, LoM, and HoH there really isn't any intense horror in the game. So this idea has some potential. the low magic also adds something to the flavor there. it makes people powerless in the face of great evil, whereas magic is an equalizer. if you add corrupting magic into the mix, well, that is even more frightening and, well, horrific. but i am still interested in hearing from other people before i finalize this step. come on people, throw in your two cents!
Ninetails Demon 10-13-06, 01:28 AM	A horror campaign would be something new for my group, so I say yay! *cough* :embarrass As for magic, perhaps it could be something only in the hands of the elite. The common folk know about it, and the way they interact with it depends on the source. To them divine/arcane/psionics are all the same; what matters is it a wizard from the church or some crazy cleric in the woods? If a member of the clergy is the caster/manifester, the people are inspired, moved, joyful, etc. However, the man walking in from the woods casting magic would be seen as some kind of demon causeing the townsfolk to run screaming for the priests. In their minds there would be only one place of real safety, churchs and such, but they are far and in between. There! Are you happy now? Stealing my hard earned pennies!
rydi123 10-13-06, 01:36 AM	much abliged. the two cents will help to create a wonderful campaign building project in a third world country, where your two cents will buy a needy DM dice, a screen, and a pdf copy of the SRD (alas, if he only had electricity...) OK. i will update the page, and set up stuff to vote on. i will factor you guys that have posted into the votes.
Pellanor 10-13-06, 03:55 PM	After running a fairly High Fantasy campaign for the last couple years, I'm in the mood for something different. I'm going to be different and vote for a Post Apocalyptic setting. Why? I've never been a huge fan of Horror. It's always felt too limiting for me. I like the PA setting because it's fairly easy to add horro elements to it, and for players to have a horro based campaign, without the entire setting being tied down. You can still have a light-hearted game if you want to. As for magic, I like the idea of both the Limited and the Corrupting magic, but feel that they are both more-or-less the same thing. Magic is limited in both styles, there's just a definate reason for it to be limited if it's corrupting. I think we should definatly have limited magic, but we need a good reason for why it is limited. If limited continues to be as popular as it is now, perhaps we can have part of next topic be concerning what's limiting the magic.
rydi123 10-13-06, 10:16 PM	i was hoping someone would go with post apocalyptic actually. you see, my vote calculating is going to go a little different than most other votes on these boards. what i will be doing is taking the most popular elements in the voting, entering the data into my organic supercomputer (ie, reading the scores and thinking about them) and creating an amalgamation of the votes. so, with post apocalyptic in the voting, even if the horror genre wins, there will be an a post-apocalyptic element in the campaign. either the world will have blown itself up, leading to the horrors of the campaign world, or the evil forces won, destroyed the world themselves, and remade the world in their image, to name a few possibilities. and as far as magic goes, yeah, the corrupting is very similar to limited, though in a horror setting it isn't necessarily the same. magic could be as widespread as in ebberon, but slowly corrupting the populace, warping them into monstrous abberations. and finally, i fully intend to go into all the reasons for the setting and how the ideas will be implemented. actually, im hoping for alot of input from all of my unearthed arcana board companions, as this is really a campaign world for all of us.
Glensather 10-14-06, 01:18 AM	I was actually going to suggest some sort of Post-Apocalyptic/Horror fusion, with Magic limited but widespread (i.e. the only practitioners are elite military units, powerful undead, the PCs, etc.)
rydi123 10-14-06, 05:06 PM	votes are updated. i think if i don't see any more input by sunday i will call this one and start the next. thanks for all the input people.
Ninetails Demon 10-14-06, 05:18 PM	Are we allowed to change our votes? I'd prefer the Post Apocalyptic because we could have different elements. Has the desired horror or something else for the crazies. Also, if someone would be so kind... what is corrupting magic exactly? :blush:
Glensather 10-15-06, 03:40 AM	Something like Taint, I would assume (never having heard of it myself)... or maybe something like Dark Side Points.
rydi123 10-15-06, 04:16 AM	sure, you can change votes. {just switched yours} and corrupting magic could be any of several different things. could employ the actual taint system presented in OA and UA, could be like darkside, could be like middle earth and the rings, could be something that just drives you crazy. we will have to decide on the exact implemintation.
rydi123 10-15-06, 07:07 PM	Okay. The first votes are in. It is a post-apocalyptic horror setting, with limited magic that corrupts its users in some way. Now we need to decide why things suck so much in our world, and what level of technology they were at before/after the apocalypse. The Voting Page has been updated, so take a look, and get to voting! :D
Glensather 10-15-06, 11:54 PM	Mix D and B. A Great War in which there were many factions, neither good nor evil. However, Outsiders had taken an interest in this war, and backed the factions they liked best. This in turn erupted the endless Blood War, spilling it onto the Material Plane whilst at the same time assailing the celestial planes of the multiverse. The factions, though tired from years of fighting, allied with those whom supported them, and thus the Last Great War of Humanity turned into the War of Eternity, in which there were three sides: The Men of Heaven, the Men of Hell, and the Men of the Abyss. The war was great, and shook the multiverse to its core; so much so, in fact, that it dragged parts of the Outer Planes into the Material Plane. The war has torn the world asunder. X years later, the dust has settled, and the remnants of humanity, Heaven, Hell, and the Abyss struggle to survive a desolate landscape. ...my 2cents anyway. As for Tech level... Cyberpunk/Modern era (2030ish, perhaps), and afterward, a mix of Medieval and Modern.
rydi123 10-16-06, 05:02 PM	Updated. Though your story suggestions will certainly be taken into account once the voting is over, i had to find a way to record your votes, so i put your story vote as 'Evil, Triumphant?' since the end result was more simlar to that than 'The Great War'. For the tech levels, put you down for Cyberpunk (before) and Medieval (after), and since the previous level of technology will be present to some degree in the 'after' society, the intent of your vote is maintained (there will still be modern equipment available, but the overall society will be at a much lower level of technology without the infrastructure to support the high tech stuff). that work for you Glensather?
cnpitts 10-16-06, 08:46 PM	Horror all the way. How it got there matters less to me. Of course the DM should know, but the players should discover it through their explorations. Limited magic is a good idea as well. I personally like (no surprise) Dawn of the Dead. Even if the campaign isn't centered around it, it's a fun idea to run. Maybe a community experiences the problem in a nifty module type adventure. Zombies are always good. I also like the Thundarr idea of high tech pre-apocalypse, with the world now reduced to sword and limited sorcery (even some tech-magic in there perhaps). Traveling over abandoned super-highways and stripping venison on Rockefeller Square with demons and corrupting magic about is spooky and fun. I wanna play a rouge that has learned to pick old electronic keypads or a barbarian wielding a laser sword. Good times.
Glensather 10-16-06, 11:35 PM	Updated. Though your story suggestions will certainly be taken into account once the voting is over, i had to find a way to record your votes, so i put your story vote as 'Evil, Triumphant?' since the end result was more simlar to that than 'The Great War'. For the tech levels, put you down for Cyberpunk (before) and Medieval (after), and since the previous level of technology will be present to some degree in the 'after' society, the intent of your vote is maintained (there will still be modern equipment available, but the overall society will be at a much lower level of technology without the infrastructure to support the high tech stuff). that work for you Glensather? That works wonderfully, thanks :) .
Banpai 10-17-06, 06:41 PM	Thx for the PM, this is a really interresting idea and I would be glad to participate. Now you have already decided on a genre, and you did chose one of the more challenging ones. To combine the Horror with the Post Apocalyptic genere means that you still have a rather high level of education amonst the citizens of this new age - depending on how much time has passed since the "event" that chause such a change. Now you have an advanced society thrown back into the "good old days" and this will of course lead to changes in said society, depending on how the change happened and how it still effects the inhabitants of this world social structures may still be in place, changed or completly destoryed and rebuild by a strong hand. Now in such a situation the horror can come from many different places: technological overlords could terrorize the population with the "old" weapons and devices, strange mutations could have very alienating effects, some talented idividuals rediscover the secrets of magic lost 4000 years ago - some my use it to benefit society to heal and rebuild whats left, but other will certanly use their new power to take what they always wanted but never could in the old world -, gates to other planes could open spilling forth all kinds of dangeraus beasts controlled by an alient intelligence, the forces of good and evil appear in the new world and start to recruit the inhabitants of the plain for their final crussade - for Armageddon!(the last one actually allows for more heroic characters). Or (stealing from a very enjoyable WotC Novel) a planar overlay has started combining this world and another world into a new one, this could start by rendering electronics useless, nature changes - adopts if you will - to fight the new inhabitants, whole cities with new races could appear in the blink of an eye....... What I am trying to say is that horror can have many faces, it doesn´t have to be a 12 headed tentacle beast from outer space, sometimes small changes can result in great consequences. I know it may be a little late but here is my suggestion: In the year 2030 the pupolation finally found a way to cheat death, after a brilliant chemist discovered a way to stop aging, rapid changes in society chause to dissapearance of crime, all world leaders end their coflict and everything changes into a big Utopia. But Nature had different plans for the world, after they had broken the natural cycle enviromental catastropheis destroyed this utopia and all the survivers find themselves in in the dead shadow of the perfect world, nature has declaired open war on them and hounts the transgressors with horrible new creatures and the survivors have to unearth old forgotten lore - lore that better should have stayed forgotten - to battle nature and creatue a new Utopia, but only a few survivors have found a way to live with nature again an try to stop the other survirors from making everything worse.......... Yeah I know many spelling errors but I am typing with a sucky keyboard so please forgive me.
Yodasatomicweed 10-17-06, 07:27 PM	An idea for what happened: Well, if you frequent the Epic boards, you're always seeing new blow-up-the-world spells involving thousands of followers for the mitigating factor. They're pretty theoretical for the most part, because no sane DM will approve the spell. Well, someone did it. A cleric of Erythnul hid himself and his cult of followers away for a year or so, and spent much of that time casting the spell. Backlash damage slew all of his followers, and the cleric is permanently crippled, but the spell worked. The ground opened up, fire rained from the sky, igniting the atmosphere, and a massive explosion of force energy emanated from the caster. This spell managed to entirely envelop the Prime Material Plane. Magic was not meant to be used in this manner though, and the cleric overtaxed its limits. This massive usage of it damaged magic itself, and the genocidal usage of it twisted it in its entirety to become inherently evil. Erythnul has since been destroyed by vengeful good deities, but the destruction was on such a scale that not even Wish, Miracle, or the Alter Reality SDA was enough to undo it. Noone knows where the cleric is at the moment, though: he is presumed dead, but that may not be the case. The only people to survive were those who were not on the plane at that time. Mostly adventurers, but some merchants and aristocracy as well who were away on business. People slowly trickled back to see the devastation. This was, of course, a boon to necromancers. Necromancers as a whole practically went insane, raising anything and everything they could, with practically no limits besides their spells-per-day. The aristocracy and merchants did not see much difference between necromancers and magic users in general. Anyone capable of using magic was hunted down and slain to prevent this (both the apocolypse AND the massive influx of newly raised undead) from happening again, as well as anyone who may have in any way been associated with Erythnul. The secrets and even knowledge of magic were locked away, but people capable in its use (although untrained) still appear from time to time. They are either killed, or quickly taken by the elite because of their potential. Because of the necromancers, undead run rampant, and are more numerous than the normal PC races. Intelligent undead have thrived, and have formed numerous cities, most notably one formed entirely of dracolichs. Oh, and newcomers are regarded with suspicion: at least one city was sold out by another to the undead in exchange for a promise to be left alone. How's that? A bit too close to a zombie armeggedon for my comfort, but w/e. The Epic spell o' Doom is the main gist of it. I place my vote for hi Sci-Fi beforehand, and Medieval setting afterwards. Also, since these are alternate rules...I would really, really like to see Improved Critical stack with Keen.
Viper3220 10-17-06, 07:45 PM	Well, I'd like to play in a world where most things were relatively new. The key important people are probably legendary (11+ level) It gives the PCs a sense that they are special, but not like the chosen ones or something. I personally would go with the Midieval age. When you try to mix guns and other technological weapons with D&D you [sometimes] get a sense of the weapon making the warrior. For example, one reason I play D&D, instead of a modern world is because your hero can get gunned down by a couple people with a gun. Either that or they take bullets to the chest in a world where bullets normally kill people. It makes it less heroic and more real. Fantasy to me is about escapism. I like to do things in Fantasy we humans in real life can't do. Some things like backflips and acrobatics are things you can do in real life. Wall kicking, dodging lightning, and fighting a creature that's 8x as big as you, are not.
rydi123 10-18-06, 01:03 AM	Wow, I am happy to see all the new posts! Glad you guys could join us! I have updated the Voting Page with the Tech level votes based upon the responses so far, added in another setting option, and am now just waiting for people's final votes on the setting info before i tally things up. What I am trying to say is that horror can have many faces, it doesn´t have to be a 12 headed tentacle beast from outer space, sometimes small changes can result in great consequences. I totally agree. And it is good that you are thinking from that perspective, as in a project like this it is easy to get lost in the big stuff and not utilize the smaller/more subtle elements to good effect. Posted your entry. How's that? A bit too close to a zombie armeggedon for my comfort, but w/e. The Epic spell o' Doom is the main gist of it. I place my vote for hi Sci-Fi beforehand, and Medieval setting afterwards. Also, since these are alternate rules...I would really, really like to see Improved Critical stack with Keen. I liked the story ideas, but you are right, it fits into the other categories listed, or at least creates alot of overlap. What I think I will do is keep this in mind when coming up with specific storyline info for the setting, assuming either The Great War or Dawn of the Dead wins. And remind me to cover the critical thing when we get to the rules voting. I would personally like to see them stack as well. I personally would go with the Midieval age. When you try to mix guns and other technological weapons with D&D you [sometimes] get a sense of the weapon making the warrior. For example, one reason I play D&D, instead of a modern world is because your hero can get gunned down by a couple people with a gun. Either that or they take bullets to the chest in a world where bullets normally kill people. It makes it less heroic and more real. Fantasy to me is about escapism. I like to do things in Fantasy we humans in real life can't do. Some things like backflips and acrobatics are things you can do in real life. Wall kicking, dodging lightning, and fighting a creature that's 8x as big as you, are not. Yeah, I see your point. Though I think that Horror has a different kind of escapism in mind, and there is a certain vulnerability there that isn't present in the normal beat-down-the-monster D&D. But since the infrastructure supporting guns and other tech is going to be destroyed, the role such technology plays will likely be lessened (where you going to find ammo for that rail gun?) Well, I'd like to play in a world where most things were relatively new. The key important people are probably legendary (11+ level) It gives the PCs a sense that they are special, but not like the chosen ones or something. I think this is fairly within the realm of possibility, since the world will have suffered tremendous losses, and may even have been wiped mostly clean.
GalaionEmpire 10-18-06, 04:06 AM	I like the post apocalyptic idea I think in a mid level magic. I think that the world of old would be a high level magic that is also in the middle of an industrial revolution but with magic being the power source. But like 200 years ago something happened and either most of the good spells were lost or maybe the magic is part used up so the good spells don’t work. I think going back 1 age in some places and more all the way to the Stone Age in others also some places magic works and in others only some spells work. I think it would be cool there legends of flying cites and maybe some that still do but most people have never seen one. Or there grate grate grand mother traveled all over the world but no one has done that in 200 years.
Banpai 10-18-06, 08:48 AM	Edit: Sorry OMG did missread something, I did read High SciFi or High Fantasy sorry - my arguments are still valid I guess. Well I guess now is the time to decide whether we want to start with a high fantasy or a high science fiction, both have their advantages: Science Fiction allows a great number possible scenarios and many nice modern devices (see D20 Modern Future), after the “great event” most professions will be severely weakened by this while the sword swinging idiots will suddenly be useful. Depending on how much time has happened since the Apocalypse some may still hoard technology – some for personal power, others to recreate the society. The obvious problem with this genre is that is may not work very well with things like magic and other occult things unless these things already existed in the old times. Horror usually comes from escaped test subjects, mutated viruses and creatures – Resident Evil is a rather good example for these things – but even a single soldier could control a village with his prototype laser gun. Now High Fantasy – this setting allows the DM to put in almost anything, especially if it makes the old world appear like Paradise. Flying cities, huge armies of Golems protected the spellcasters from harm, magic is the quinessential superpower in this age and any mage no matter how powerfull he is will have a very high status. There are many ways how this setting could serve to create horror in the hearts of the players – demons bound long ago by powerful magic now want to rule this plane, nature is raped by the enterprising mages and nature fights back, the archmages (or achrpriests/psions/squirrels) try to run a ritual of unimaginable power, that shall grand them divinity, or course the ritual fails and in the chaos that followed this faithful moment Apocalypse destroys the world and all surviving mages are distrusted as horrors created by magic (something like Living Spells) are one of the greatest dangers in this darks age.
starfire311 10-18-06, 09:23 AM	Well this should be fun and interesting... I am currently working on a "darness triumphs" campaign setting, in which Mind Flayers, beholders, and Undead have carved the known world into 3 mostly equal Empires/kingdoms and have come to a tenative truce... The PCs for this game will start of as being just liberated from mind flayer control by a group of rebels. They will all basically be seeing the world for the 1st time. So hopfully this will provide some ideas for me to swipe:plotting: The Topic and Voting Page b. Evil, Triumphant?-The final battle between good and evil, which was prophesied for thousands of years, finally occured. But good did not win. The infernal host was to powerful, due to an unprecedented alliance of both demons and devils who put aside thier ages old conflict long enough to destroy the heavenly host. Since that fateful day, the people of the plane have been little more than slaves to the whims of the infernal creatures, who with the heavenly host defeated, have resumed thier blood war. this gets my vote Tech Level (Before the Apocalypse) a. Stone Age/Prehistoric b. Bronze Age/Ancient c. Iron Age/Medieval {1 vote} d. Renaisance e. Industrial f. Modern g. Cyberpunk {2 vote} d. High Sci/Fi {2 Vote} I am gonna go d. High Sci/Fi Wait shouldnt that be H not d Tech Level (After the Apocalypse) a. Stone Age/Prehistoric b. Bronze Age/Ancient c. Iron Age/Medieval {4 votes} d. Renaisance e. Industrial f. Modern g. Cyberpunk d. High Sci/Fi and I will vote c. Iron Age/Medieval, although I think there should be remanents of the pre-apocalytic technology, but it should be almost magic like... doh is this gonna be Thundar the Barbarian? ENJOY! Will do P.S. For our next vote, we need to decide who is resisting the decay, and what respite can be found from the horror of our desolate world. We also need to go into what the gods are doing about all this, and what role psionics play. Personally I like psionics... I especially like the system, heck maybe it should be no magic with only psionics. I also think the gods should be gone, if there were any to begin with. Maybe there could be a couple of the evil gods that are present, but the good/neutral gods are lost(perhaps imprisoned by the evil gods)
rydi123 10-19-06, 05:25 AM	Well, looks like things are winding down on this vote. Any last votes anyone? And for Yoda and Banpai, what do you want your final votes for as far as storyline? Well I guess now is the time to decide whether we want to start with a high fantasy or a high science fiction, both have their advantages: from what it is looking like it is going to be sci/fi to start, medieval after the apocalypse, with limited/corrupting magic. So hopfully this will provide some ideas for me to swipe indeed. Wait shouldnt that be H not d Dur. Corrected, and thanks. and I will vote c. Iron Age/Medieval, although I think there should be remanents of the pre-apocalytic technology, but it should be almost magic like... doh is this gonna be Thundar the Barbarian? that is the whole reason to ask the previous technology level, so that artifacts can pop up from time to time. what is thundar?
starfire311 10-19-06, 09:09 AM	. what is thundar? doh meant thundarr the barbarian here thundarr (http://www.thundarr.com/)
Yodasatomicweed 10-19-06, 11:40 AM	I guess I'll vote for Dawn of the Dead. Cliche, I know, but it sorta fits with that epic boom spell. Barring my personal bias on that, though, I'd vote for option "a", the Far Realm one. That gives a lot of options for non-typical horror stuff, as well as deception. Like "common" people who turn out to have highly perverse morals/activities, and consider them the norm (child cannabalism, perhaps?).
rydi123 10-19-06, 04:12 PM	Me thinks I will tally this and post a new vote tomorrow. doh meant thundarr the barbarian here thundarr (http://www.thundarr.com/) wow. that was a frightening trip down memory lane. :) I guess I'll vote for Dawn of the Dead. Cliche, I know, but it sorta fits with that epic boom spell. Barring my personal bias on that, though, I'd vote for option "a", the Far Realm one. That gives a lot of options for non-typical horror stuff, as well as deception. Like "common" people who turn out to have highly perverse morals/activities, and consider them the norm (child cannabalism, perhaps?). yeah, far realm was kind of my first choice, but alas, i am here to make a colaborative project. i will likely only vote if there is a tie or something. got you down for dawn of the dead.
Yodasatomicweed 10-19-06, 05:07 PM	Actually, to be honest, put me down for Far Realms. Sorry, I wasn't clear (actually, maybe I was, but in the wrong way), what I meant is that my "vote" for Dawn of the Dead was solely to see my epic spell idea get in. There are already too many undead horror things. I like Far Realm because, like I mentioned, it allows for alternate means of horror. Where the horror comes not from your enemies, but from your allies.
rydi123 10-19-06, 05:43 PM	gotcha. corrected the vote.
Banpai 10-20-06, 09:45 AM	Just to make it clear, I am agianst the Far Realms thing for two reasons: It´s far to close to Cthullu and there already a d20 version of it, and Far Realms is creeping me out, seriously it´s too much madness and does´t fit the high SF/cyberpunk mix very well. My votes would go to High SF (maybe with mid level (like D20 magic and psionics up to 5th level spells/powers) before the Apocalypse and full D&D Magic and Psionics after the event) and a mix of Bronze Age/Ancient-Iron Age/Medieval and Renaisance. In some areas controlled by the powerfull beings people live in Ancient age, in most areas we have a Medieval progress level and in the centers of science (and maybe a ressisante?) we already have Renaisance level stuff + old technological devices that survived the event. That way people could fight in a Breastplate with an enchanted Vibroblade, or an archer could fight with an advanded compound bow with laser optics....... I also vote for Evil, Triumphant, since it allows for many interresting combinations and allows me to use some rule ideas I am working on already...:D
rydi123 10-20-06, 05:47 PM	I hear you Banpai. and it looks like the far realm will be less a part of it (sad me :( i liked the creepiness of it). recorded your votes. Ok everybody. looks like evil, triumphant will win. do we want it exactly as i wrote it (demon/devil mix), or did anyone have anything better? maybe something that mixes in the other two runners up? im up for anything really, but if it is demons/devils, there should be some gods running around, and i get the feeling that for this campaign to work right, there needs to be a reason why the gods can't come down and mess with things, or maybe just a single god screwing with things and locking out the others (takhesis in the sixth age for example). i will hopefully have new stuff posted by tonight, though weekends are usually busy for me (actually, most times are busy for me, but oh well :) )
Viper3220 10-20-06, 11:13 PM	I just wanted to say that I really really do not like Horror.
starfire311 10-21-06, 12:55 AM	I like the idea of somehow the demons/devils/evil gods managed to overthrow the good/neutral gods/celestials... but in doing so they severly weakened themselves, and also began infighting again, there would still be a good god or 2 in hiding and pockets of celestials in hiding, along with some kind of resistance. Along with some way to bring back the other gods.
rydi123 10-21-06, 04:57 AM	OK, next vote is up and running (barely). if there are typos, sorry, but i am rather tired, i will go proofread tomorrow. have fun.
Viper3220 10-21-06, 02:01 PM	The Topic and Voting Page The ResistanceB] [B]g. A Question- In the great battle, one of the great generals of hell killed the lord of the celestial host. While the angel was on its knees, rather than beg for its life, the angel simply asked "Why? Can you think of nothing better to create than this?" Even as the Demon's axe came crashing down upon the angel, the question worked its way into the demons mind. As the world was stripped, and the infernal creature saw the beauty that was being destroyed, and looked at the hell the were creating, something changed in its heart. It saw finally the glory of the light, and it was saddened at all it had done. the demon acted no different, lest its companions destroy it, but in secret the demon fostered the resistance of the few remaining free mortals, in hopes that beauty and good might not die... What pantheon of gods? b. All new made up pantheon What happened to the Gods b. Free to Choose- Though both the good and evil gods wished to interfere in the war, the neutral gods refused to allow it. The pacts of old must be maintained; the gods must allow thier followers freedom to choose the course of thier existence. the only interference allowed to the gods is through thier clerics. As the war came to a close, the evil gods laughed, the good mourned, and the neutral knew what the others did not: that the multiverse itself would be destroyed if the gods were allowed to war with one another. Psionics (rules) c. Psionics work just like magic(spells and everything) but for fluff, look different. Psionics (abundance and effect on the setting) a. Psionics replace magic as the primary supernatural ability in the world, as individuals turn inward to avoid the corruption caused by magic. (Only demons/devils/evil gods can use "magic" Those are my votes.
Yodasatomicweed 10-21-06, 07:42 PM	Pantheon: b) All new made-up pantheon What happened to the Gods: b)Free to Choose Psionics: b) Present, using psi/magic are different rules Psionics: c) Psionics are feared by the populace, seeing it as just another form of corrupting magic (even though if the psi/magic are different ruels win, it's not just another form...).
rydi123 10-21-06, 08:29 PM	you forgot to pick who is resistance is yoda, but i got everything else.
Yodasatomicweed 10-21-06, 09:05 PM	Whoops. Shadows of the Dragons. Dragons rock, and no wimpy demon/devil onslaught should be able to take them down.
GalaionEmpire 10-22-06, 12:53 AM	[a. In the Shadow of Dragons- As the Demonic hordes washed over the world, dragonkind formed an alliance. Dragons would not be dominated by demons and devils, and they would not let such creatures seize thier most precious treasure, thier world, from them. Even the evil dragons refused to side with the demons, since that would mean submitting to their will. While the heavenly host was dying in the skies above them, the greatest wyrms of all the chromatics, crystals, and metalics came together to create a great shield over thier lands, a shield to throw back the demonic invaders, and behind which the dragons could carefully prepare for the demons' downfall... I have played a carter all the way to god hood and it is not likely that a demon horde will defeat a demigod let alone a full fledged god. What pantheon of gods? b. All new made up pantheon What happened to the Gods b. Free to Choose- Though both the good and evil gods wished to interfere in the war, the neutral gods refused to allow it. The pacts of old must be maintained; the gods must allow thier followers freedom to choose the course of thier existence. the only interference allowed to the gods is through thier clerics. As the war came to a close, the evil gods laughed, the good mourned, and the neutral knew what the others did not: that the multiverse itself would be destroyed if the gods were allowed to war with one another. Psionics (rules) b. Present, using psi/magic are different rules d. Present, causes madness I like the idea of Psionics being different from magic but if magic corrupts then Psi should cause madness Psionics (abundance and effect on the setting) [b. demons hunting down those that can practice psionics I don’t like the limited part
Banpai 10-22-06, 04:37 PM	rydi123 these are some really nice options,, but I would suggested the following most of it is a variant of what you posted, so the credit goes to you :D : Before the Apocalypse people lived in a really wonderful age:hunger, diseases and war were ended decades of centuries ago an people lived for hundreds of years through their perfect healtcare system (in this time almost every part of the body can be replaced with artificial body parts - even replacing everything but the brain was possible [some say even this last limit did fall but it was never proven]). Magic was as strong as it is in standard D&D but few people were interested in mastering it since most low level things were easily replicated with their technology. Psionics were present to, but psions and other prsionic characters were viewed as gifted individuals (psionic powers were usually used to be better in their profession - something like looking several seconds into the future for a pilot, or something that gives you a bonus to certain tasks like computer use, crafting, repair, athletics, healing.......you know everything but shooting energy rays from your eyes :) ). True Clerics were almost nonexistent since the faith in the gods waned to mere lip service because of the high live standard in this time. Druids were rare too, but they lived closer together in the last places of untamed wilderness. Sorcerers were about a little bit rarer than psions but their powers were not unlike theirs. Wizards were rare due to the fact that only a minority could work with digital devices as spellbooks. But of course something really bad had to happen sooner of later. Until a very bad day no creature could enter the material plane, this means means no outsiders and of course no gods. But one terrible day the demons and devils united under the banner of a mighty leader (demon, devil yugoloth, fallen solar, lich, fallen god........ thats something for a vote) could break this barrier and enter the material plane in great numbers. It took only minutes until the forces of good understood that they could enter the the material plane too and they grabbed everything they could and entered the war on the material plane. Of course the gods had hoped for a chance to gain more worship from the material plane once more since a long time and they tried to enter the planer too, but while the forces of evil somehow managed to come through the barrier the gods could not cross it. So the the forces of good and evil did fight for the what seemed like an eternity but it wasn´t more than a year and a day until the mighty army of evil declared victory and their leader was a about to crown himself emperor of this new world. But at this day soemtsomething happened noone knows if he just decided to go back or was killed by an assassin but on this day the army broke into parts and the barrier was restored to full strength the outsiders could still return home, but no outsider could enter the material plane. (BTW the army of evil did win cause they were prepared and the army of good wasn´t :cool: ) Several powerful outsiders crafted kingdoms of their own and the remaining soldiers of the army of good formed a resistance to protect the free people of this plane from the undead horrors that escape the lands of the evil outsiders (demons are surprisingly good at creating undead). New heroes arrise from the ranks of the survivors and more and more people started to worship the gods again.
Glensather 10-23-06, 12:31 AM	The Resistance g. A Question I enjoy this one particularly. The thought of a demon general questioning his beliefs and fostering the resistance is very appealing to me. What pantheon of gods? b. All new made up pantheon This one as well; it'll allow us to flex our creativity. What happened to the Gods b. Free to Choose- Though both the good and evil gods wished to interfere in the war, the neutral gods refused to allow it. The pacts of old must be maintained; the gods must allow thier followers freedom to choose the course of thier existence. the only interference allowed to the gods is through thier clerics. As the war came to a close, the evil gods laughed, the good mourned, and the neutral knew what the others did not: that the multiverse itself would be destroyed if the gods were allowed to war with one another. I really don't like the idea of gods being more involved than simply granting spells to clerics (if that), so this option is most appealing to me. Psionics (rules) b. Present, using psi/magic are different rules I want Psionics, but I want them to be different from magic; magic, used by demons and devils, corrupts mankind, who can't wield them. Psionics would provide that alternative to those who can use them. Psionics (abundance and effect on the setting) b. Psionics are limited, with demons hunting down those that can practice psionics This one. Most humans would be your average survivor, but the few with Psionic potential are dangerous to demons, and are so hunted down.
starfire311 10-23-06, 09:29 AM	g. A Question- In the great battle, one of the great generals of hell killed the lord of the celestial host. While the angel was on its knees, rather than beg for its life, the angel simply asked "Why? Can you think of nothing better to create than this?" Even as the Demon's axe came crashing down upon the angel, the question worked its way into the demons mind. As the world was stripped, and the infernal creature saw the beauty that was being destroyed, and looked at the hell the were creating, something changed in its heart. It saw finally the glory of the light, and it was saddened at all it had done. the demon acted no different, lest its companions destroy it, but in secret the demon fostered the resistance of the few remaining free mortals, in hopes that beauty and good might not die... What pantheon of gods? a. All of them are involved b. All new made up pantheon {4 Vote} c. Ebberon d. Forgotten realms e. Dragon lance f. Greyhawk g. Egyptian h. Norse i. Olympian j. other ok this is an interesting question, I would like to use a pantheon nearly identical to dragon lance, because it is a balanced panthoen and has access to tiamat and bahamut, but I would like to change the names to protect the innocent, and maybe some tweaks to the gods. So, I guess this is a vote for dragonlance. What happened to the Gods c. The Long Night- (inspired by starfire)The good gods lost to the power of the evil gods. The few remaining Gods of light are enslaved or in hiding. The gods of evil lick thier wounds and attempt to regain their power. But in a short while the Dark gods will rise to rule the world with an iron fist, thier power too great to ever be challenged again... seeing as how I am credited, how can I go agaisnt this... it is just pure genius:) Psionics (rules) b. Present, using psi/magic are different rules I vore for this one, I actually like the psionic system a lot. Psionics (abundance and effect on the setting) a. Psionics replace magic as the primary supernatural ability in the world, as individuals turn inward to avoid the corruption caused by magic {1 Vote} b. Psionics are limited, with demons hunting down those that can practice psionics {2 Vote} c. Psionics are feared by the populace, seeing it as just another form of corrupting magic {1 Vote} This is a actually a very tough choice for me, since I love the psionics, and loathe the magic system, but I think magic should play a huge role in the world. I vote A. sort of... psionics would be the main supernatural ability for the players, magic would be rare, sorcerors would be much more common than wizards, and clerics. Since I think many people would blame the gods for what has happened, and since they lost the war they probably wouldnt have access to being able to study magic. I would also think that magic would still be the main supernatural ability of the demons/devils and other supernatural beings.
rydi123 10-23-06, 06:06 PM	Thanks for the voting so far. I think we are getting close to this vote being complete, but I will have to find time to get the next one up and running. In the meantime, if anyone has any suggestions for the next vote, for the votes in general, or any comments/ideas about the future of the project just post them and discuss. oh, and watch heroes tonight. i hate tv, but that show is really cool so far. -------- Banpai: I like your ideas, but like i told someone earlier in the thread, i think they are close enough to several of the ideas presented that they should be used to flesh out the option that gets voted in, rather than as an independant option. but the beauty of using the board to do this project is that nothing is lost, and we can look back at all the posts. so remind me to look back once we get to a more details oriented section of the world creation.
Yodasatomicweed 10-25-06, 10:45 AM	You might want to start looking into alternate rules. For example, allowing Improved Critical and Keen to stack, among other things. Possibly undoing any horrid nerfs, or toning down extremely overpowered, abusive stuff. Maybe you could change DR/magic back into DR/+x instead. Other stuff too, ask for suggestions from other people.
rydi123 10-25-06, 06:29 PM	good idea yoda. even though there is still flavor stuff to consider, we should start discussing some alternate rules now, so that when we start voting on them, we have ideas and the voting goes smoothly. ok. i officially declare this 'alternate rules discussion time' and will post a new vote on setting stuff after we have done a little bit of rules discussion.
cnpitts 10-25-06, 09:32 PM	good idea yoda. even though there is still flavor stuff to consider, we should start discussing some alternate rules now, so that when we start voting on them, we have ideas and the voting goes smoothly. ok. i officially declare this 'alternate rules discussion time' and will post a new vote on setting stuff after we have done a little bit of rules discussion. Sounds good. Uhm, where do we start?
rydi123 10-25-06, 10:19 PM	wherever you like. what rules would you like to see and/or not like to see? what rules do you think would mesh well with the setting so far? have any random thoughts?
cnpitts 10-26-06, 12:05 AM	wherever you like. what rules would you like to see and/or not like to see? what rules do you think would mesh well with the setting so far? have any random thoughts? I posted a comment in another thread recommending a more cinematic feel to combat. I find myself and other players getting bored or at least, distracted easily as battles become more an issue of math. I roll, add my dice, see if my number is bigger than their number, then roll dmg dice. I understand DnD is not Feng Shui, but I think anything that encourages players to declare actions to add fun, not rules, to the game would be fun. Of course, there are players that would seek advantage through this. For example, "I parry the warforged's swing, deflecting his arm out wide, as I swing down hard at the elbow joint." This done to sever the arm and give a penalty to the opponent. I think my point is, it would only work if the combat rules stay about the same. Just adds flare. Anything to spice up the tedium of combat would be good. Does anyone have any house rules covering anything like this?
starfire311 10-26-06, 08:37 AM	1st up for me on the agenda would be HP vs VP/WP and AC vs Def and Armor as DR. What do you all think is better.
Yodasatomicweed 10-26-06, 12:50 PM	HP, definately. I hate the idea that my uber-character can fall to one well placed hit by some peon. Then again, for some horror settings, it does add to the atmosphere if every combat has the potential of death. Personally, though, I'd vote for HP. Also, once again, I'll bring up Improved Crit and Keen, and the stacking of the aforementioned feats/qualities. EDIT: And I vote for AC. Honestly, this sounds a lot like D&D vs SWRPG...
rydi123 10-26-06, 05:25 PM	I posted a comment in another thread recommending a more cinematic feel to combat. I find myself and other players getting bored or at least, distracted easily as battles become more an issue of math. I roll, add my dice, see if my number is bigger than their number, then roll dmg dice. I understand DnD is not Feng Shui, but I think anything that encourages players to declare actions to add fun, not rules, to the game would be fun. Of course, there are players that would seek advantage through this. For example, "I parry the warforged's swing, deflecting his arm out wide, as I swing down hard at the elbow joint." This done to sever the arm and give a penalty to the opponent. I think my point is, it would only work if the combat rules stay about the same. Just adds flare. Anything to spice up the tedium of combat would be good. Does anyone have any house rules covering anything like this? honestly, i would like to get some feed back on this as well. the way the system is now gets pretty complicated and drawn out. also, there is little descriptive element. but the only thing that i can think of is to give people who use good descriptions an ad hoc bonus of an appropriate nature. like if you take the above action you might get a bonus to disarm (pun. haha.) of +2, or maybe some bonus damage. a called shot system could work by incurring penalties on the creatures being attacked, but there are alot of complications there as well. ac/hp/keen well, i am of the opinion that vitality is just too deadly for even a horror d&d campaign, and is far too dependent upon luck. other alternatives might be to limit healing in some way, such as making it turn damage to subdual damage, or by making healing spells heal less damage as far as ac, i like armor as dr, but having played with it, i don't like splitting it. just makes an already numbers heavy system heavier. just flat dr is good for me. then give a defense bonus of some sort (i prefer 1/2 bab) and then let armor stack. or just use straight ac. that can work too. the keen thing... never been a big deal to me. not really sure why they took it out, and it makes absolute sense to have them stack (my sword is sharp and i know how to use it).
Pellanor 10-26-06, 06:59 PM	and as far as magic goes, yeah, the corrupting is very similar to limited, though in a horror setting it isn't necessarily the same. magic could be as widespread as in ebberon, but slowly corrupting the populace, warping them into monstrous abberations.Ah, I hadn't thought of that. The Resistance: g. A Question What pantheon of gods: b. All new made up pantheon What happened to the Gods: a. God is Dead Psionics (rules): I also like the spit a/d here, where Magic Corrupts and Psionics causes magic, both different, yet in some way, both the same. Psionics (abundance and effect on the setting): c. Psionics are feared On to the Rules side of things: HP vs VP: I like VP, but I feel DnD can't handle it at High Levels. As such I suggest going with HP instead. AC vs Def and DR: While I also like Def and DR, I think AC would work better with this setting. Action Points: In a horror game? No. Generally I feel that the Post Apocalyptic Horror game isn't as much about the high flying adventure that you normally associate with AP, VP and Defence. This is meant to be a more Somber game. Taint, Insanity, etc... I don't really like these mechanics. I think we'll want to create our own custom mechanics for the Corrupting / maddening effects of Magic and Psionics though. Keen Stacking While normally adding this is one small balancing factor for melee characters compared to their caster counterparts, I think that the corrupting magic and maddening psionics will be enough of a weakness to keep things balanced. Alignment In Heroes of Horror it has some suggestions for getting rid of Alignment. Anybody else have any thoughts on this? Personally this sounds like too much of a Battle between Supernatural Good and Supernatural Evil for alignments to be abolished. Resurrection HoH also has some rules for making Resurrection harder. I like the ideas of resurrection having side effects. Perhaps this could also be tied to the Corruption and/or Madness.
cnpitts 10-26-06, 09:51 PM	I'm not so sure Healing needs to be modified. I really like the idea of new rules over more rules. Some things just cause too much probelm in a game and need to be covered, but is Healing really that much of an issue? The threat of death is neat, but death seems almost guaranteed if the tank in front can't get some of that hp back.
rydi123 10-27-06, 04:35 PM	Generally I feel that the Post Apocalyptic Horror game isn't as much about the high flying adventure that you normally associate with AP, VP and Defence. This is meant to be a more Somber game. Taint, Insanity, etc... I don't really like these mechanics. I think we'll want to create our own custom mechanics for the Corrupting / maddening effects of Magic and Psionics though. Alignment In Heroes of Horror it has some suggestions for getting rid of Alignment. Anybody else have any thoughts on this? Personally this sounds like too much of a Battle between Supernatural Good and Supernatural Evil for alignments to be abolished. Resurrection HoH also has some rules for making Resurrection harder. I like the ideas of resurrection having side effects. Perhaps this could also be tied to the Corruption and/or Madness. i agree that the setting should be more somber and less about the over the top adventure stuff. also, i think you idea on resurrection. if the demons won, then maybe all souls are going to hell, not just the bad ones. that would be rather interesting. and as far as alignment, while i dont think it should be gotten rid of, i think it should be more grey, and more variable between species. not every red dragon is CE for example. and a good act must be seen in light of its consequences (if i save this person's life, only so that 1000 more will die...) i also like the idea of setting up our own system for taint. the mutations stuff in D20 future might be an interesting take on it, assuming we only use the negative stuff, and maybe reserve positive stuff for feats. I'm not so sure Healing needs to be modified. I really like the idea of new rules over more rules. Some things just cause too much probelm in a game and need to be covered, but is Healing really that much of an issue? The threat of death is neat, but death seems almost guaranteed if the tank in front can't get some of that hp back. well, it is just something to throw out there for people to discuss. and really, it doesn't gaurantee death, it just makes tactics change. clerics start fighting more, healing occurs after battle, people spend more time running and hiding, all things that would match the setting. but what does everyone else think? what other areas do we need to look at as far as rules?
rydi123 10-30-06, 07:29 AM	anybody got any other thoughts/concerns before i put out another vote?
rydi123 11-02-06, 03:04 AM	okay. new vote up. sorry it took so long. enjoy.
GalaionEmpire 11-02-06, 03:35 PM	Divine Magic a. Divine magic is different than arcane. Power level of the campaign a. Characters are survivors just trying to get by (gritty). Climate a. The world has stayed the same (near earth climate). Geography b. 2-3 large continents. PC Races Present-discussion This dose not matter much to me. One race is as good as another. Pantheon-discussion I will have to get back on this one.
Yodasatomicweed 11-03-06, 08:11 AM	Divine Magic a. Divine magic is different than arcane. Power level of the campaign b. Characters are a bit above the norm, and have survived where others couldn't (normal). (EDIT: But by are no means invincible) Climate c. Extreme climates (the world has moved towards areas of burning heat, freezing cold, and severe storms). Geography a. One primary continent with a few smaller ones. I know I didn't answer some, that's on purpose because I don't have an answer yet.
starfire311 11-03-06, 08:49 AM	Divine Magic a. Divine magic is different than arcane. Power level of the campaign a. Characters are survivors just trying to get by (gritty). Climate c. Extreme climates (the world has moved towards areas of burning heat, freezing cold, and severe storms). Geography a. One primary continent with a few smaller ones. PC Races Present-discussion Personally here is what I would go with Civilized Humans Wild Humans Elves(possibly varied) Half-human(some kinda half human races, maybe half-ogre or half-giant) Some kinda anthropomorphic races(maybe cats, dogs and rabbits) lizardfolk Tiefling Halfling(but using whisper gnrome instead of halfing, just call it halfling) Cant think of anythign else right now Pantheon-discussion I would go with a balanced pantheon, same number of good gods as neutral and evil, same number of lawful as neutral or chaotic. So perhaps 18 gods.
rydi123 11-04-06, 08:36 PM	okay, i think i we should probably go with the balanced option starfire suggested. anyone want to submit a god or three? *my only request is that the death gods aren't evil. i hate that dd does that to death gods. they are NEUTRAL!
starfire311 11-05-06, 10:10 AM	okay, i think i we should probably go with the balanced option starfire suggested. anyone want to submit a god or three? *my only request is that the death gods aren't evil. i hate that dd does that to death gods. they are NEUTRAL! I am not necessarily a fan of evil death gods, all the time either, but I have no problem with an evil god having death as part of his protfollio, just like a good god having death as part of his portfolio, it can make since either way.
Viper3220 11-05-06, 08:36 PM	I thought I voted, but I can't find my post anywhere... in any case, I vote... Divine Magic a. Divine magic is different than arcane. Power level of the campaign b. Characters survived where others couldn't. Due to natural talent or whatever. Climate c. Extreme climates (the world has moved towards areas of burning heat, freezing cold, and severe storms). Geography a. 2-3 Large Continents. Pantheon-discussion I would go with a balanced pantheon, same number of good gods as neutral and evil, same number of lawful as neutral or chaotic. So perhaps 18 gods. I agree. Edit- Where can I find the whisper gnome?
rydi123 11-06-06, 06:35 PM	I am not necessarily a fan of evil death gods, all the time either, but I have no problem with an evil god having death as part of his protfollio, just like a good god having death as part of his portfolio, it can make since either way. oh, i certainly agree with evil and good gods having the death domain, i just have a problem with the primary death god being evil, and the deities and demigods take on things where every death god out of classical myth is evil. Edit- Where can I find the whisper gnome? you know, i can't remember. i have seen it before, but i just can't remember. anyone else remember?
starfire311 11-06-06, 07:30 PM	Edit- Where can I find the whisper gnome? Whisper gnome is in Races of Stone... I like it cause it is a little bit more flavorful than hlafling and a little bit more powerful I try to bring most of my races upto the power level of humans and dwarves... Kinda wierd, but insted of nerfing stuff in my games I ussually try to boost stuff when I cant to make it more even... for example... I even boosted humans by giving them a +2 stat mod to any one attribute, but I also boosted all the other starting races to bring them up on par with human.
rydi123 11-07-06, 07:30 AM	that's funny, i even looked in RoS, but i looked in the wrong section. but yeah, i think they are a good fit for the world. they were probably a small country in the pre-apocalypse world, possibly not even that. hmmm... maybe gypsy like travelers with little to no national allegiance, give them alternate prophecies to the end times (they predict the 'time of suffering' that comes after the apocalypse), and have them wonder the world preparing for the inevitable. now they are in the world they have been preparing for, and they have an 'i told you so' attitude that makes them irritating to be around. maybe ally them with the dragons? and have them be one of the few races that still roams around in the world ruled by the demons... yeah. i really like it. good idea.
Viper3220 11-07-06, 08:57 PM	Crap... one of the few things I don't have is Races of Stone.
starfire311 11-07-06, 10:48 PM	Crap... one of the few things I don't have is Races of Stone. not a great book, things I like in it are goliaths, Whisper gnomes, a few PrCs, some of the exotic armor and several nice feats... well actually that is more than just about any other race book... maybe only use more stuff out of races of dragon It is better than races of wild or races of destiny IMO, not sure if it is better than races of Dragon... I think it might be.
rydi123 11-07-06, 11:30 PM	aw, but races of the dragon describes kobalds, and everyone loves kobolds.
rydi123 11-09-06, 04:01 AM	what do people think of using more tiefling type races? i think those would be rather appropriate. also, how long since the apocalypse? i was thinking like 30-50 years, that way society will have fully changed. oh, and the next vote will be up in just a little while, i am going to ask about the books allowed, go through the UA alternate rules checklist, and do some more work on the pantheon. after that vote, we should be able to go into alternate house rules stuff. i think we will get a few more people participating in the voting once we move into the realm of alternate rules (since that is the board we are on afterall).
rydi123 11-11-06, 02:50 PM	Ok, new vote is up. we are finally into alternate rules! it is a bit long, so copy/paste and then just check/xxx/bold/etc your choices. also, please start thinking about ideas for deities.
Viper3220 11-11-06, 05:10 PM	Unearthed Arcana {Check all that apply; the easiest way to do this is just to copy/paste and then check or otherwise indicate the rules you want to see} 1.Environment/elemental races 2.Bloodlines 3.Racial Paragon classes -- 4.Varient classes 5.Prestigious base classes 6.Generic Classes 7.Traits 8.Flaws -- 11.Defense Bonus 12.Armor as DR 14.Death and Dying 15.Action points 16.Combat Facing 17.Hex Grid -- 20.Magic Rating 22.Spontaneous Metamagic 23.Spell Points 24.Recharge magic 25.Legendary Weapons 26.Item Familiars 27.Incantations -- 28.Contacts 29.Reputation 30.Honor 30.Taint 31.Taint-Based Prestige classes Other Alternate Rules {as above, check all that apply} 1.No fumbles.... 2.Healing converts Lethal to non-lethal damage, which then heals as normal 3.Keen stacks w/improved crit 4.Open ended crits (what the hell is this?) 7.Out of Turn Dodge 8.Fixed Defense Bonus 9.Reducing Level Adjustment. 10. suggest something else, and i will put it up here for vote Deities b. Mundane/materialistic? Deities (Deities are concerned with certain aspects of life, such as farming, crafts, dance, childbirth, etc. They are very interested in the material world and tend to walk the world in mortal form, or to manifest in showy-i'm-a-giant-god fashion) Those are my votes
GalaionEmpire 11-11-06, 09:34 PM	The Topic and Voting Page This page will be used to list the current topic, list the submissions, and update the votes. ------------------------------------------ OK, this one is going to be kind of long. I'm going to go over the UA checklist to start out the alternate rules section (we will tailor the rules selected further in later votes, as well as adding other rules). Also, i will be asking some more questions about the nature of the deities, and going over a few other alternate rules. Unearthed Arcana {Check all that apply; the easiest way to do this is just to copy/paste and then check or otherwise indicate the rules you want to see} 1.Environment/elemental races 2.Bloodlines 3.Racial Paragon classes -- 4.Varient classes 5.Prestigious base classes 6.Generic Classes 9.Spelltouched feats 10.Weapon Groups -- 11.Defense Bonus 12.Armor as DR 13.Massive damage 14.Death and Dying 15.Action points 16.Combat Facing 17.Hex Grid 18.Variable Mods -- 20.Magic Rating 21.Metamagic components 22.Spontaneous Metamagic 24.Recharge magic 25.Legendary Weapons 26.Item Familiars 27.Incantations -- 28.Contacts 29.Reputation 30.Honor 30.Taint 31.Taint-Based Prestige classes 32.Sanity Other Alternate Rules {as above, check all that apply} 2.Healing converts Lethal to non-lethal damage, which then heals as normal 3.Keen stacks w/improved crit 4.Open ended crits Deities a. Esoteric Deities (Deities deal with over-arching concepts like fate, life, death, good, evil. They are less concerned with the material world and tend to manifest in vague or symbolic ways.) b. Mundane/materialistic? Deities (Deities are concerned with certain aspects of life, such as farming, crafts, dance, childbirth, etc. They are very interested in the material world and tend to walk the world in mortal form, or to manifest in showy-i'm-a-giant-god fashion) Deities continued please submit a deity or three that you would like to see, and that would serve as examples of the pantheon. these can be as detailed or as vague as you want. I just need some sort of idea what people want (when submitting, keep in mind that last vote we did determined that the pantheon is a balanced one regarding alignment). 7.Traits 8.Flaws: I think that these two are worthless. 19.Bell Curve rolls: All multidie rolls are bell curve. 23.Spell Points. play a sorcer if thate what you wont.
starfire311 11-12-06, 12:21 AM	7.Traits 8.Flaws: I think that these two are worthless. 19.Bell Curve rolls: All multidie rolls are bell curve. 23.Spell Points. play a sorcer if thate what you wont. so is this what you are voting for or are you just trolling?
rydi123 11-12-06, 07:20 AM	that's what he was voting for (in the quote box). he was just saying why he didn't vote for a few of them (i think).
starfire311 11-12-06, 12:58 PM	that's what he was voting for (in the quote box). he was just saying why he didn't vote for a few of them (i think). ok makes some sense I guess, BTW I like your new avatar, and I will probably vote tomorrow, still thinking about stuff.
rydi123 11-12-06, 01:53 PM	TY! i was soooo happy to get it. i love ff2/4. and no hurry. this should be up for awhile. i will probably tally what has been submitted so far tomorrow night.
GalaionEmpire 11-12-06, 03:39 PM	so is this what you are voting for or are you just trolling? Yes my vots were in the quotes
rydi123 11-13-06, 10:34 AM	i think that i will weigh in on this vote as well. i will try to post some ideas for deities sometime soon. Unearthed Arcana {Check all that apply; the easiest way to do this is just to copy/paste and then check or otherwise indicate the rules you want to see} 2.Bloodlines {xxx} 3.Racial Paragon classes {xxx} -- 4.Varient classes {xxx} 5.Prestigious base classes {xxx} 6.Generic Classes {xxx} 8.Flaws {xx} 9.Spelltouched feats {xx} 10.Weapon Groups {xx} -- 11.Defense Bonus {xxx} 12.Armor as DR {xxx} 13.Massive Damage {xx} 14.Death and Dying {xxx} 17.Hex Grid {xxx} -- 20.Magic Rating {xxx} 21.Metamagic components {xx} 23.Spell Points {xx} 26.Item Familiars {xxx} 27.Incantations {xxx} -- 28.Contacts {xxx} 29.Reputation {xxx} 31.Taint {xxx} 33.Sanity {xx} Other Alternate Rules {as above, check all that apply} 2.Healing converts Lethal to non-lethal damage, which then heals as normal {xxx} 3.Keen stacks w/improved crit {xxx} 5.Alternate skill system (specifics decided later) {x} 7.Out of Turn Dodge {?} 8.Fixed Defense Bonus {?} 9.Reducing Level Adjustment {xx}. 10.-- 11.-- 13. suggest something else, and i will put it up here for vote Deities a. Esoteric Deities (Deities deal with over-arching concepts like fate, life, death, good, evil. They are less concerned with the material world and tend to manifest in vague or symbolic ways.) {x /}
starfire311 11-13-06, 11:46 AM	Yes my vots were in the quotes sorry bout that, my misunderstanding.
starfire311 11-17-06, 11:48 AM	Here is what I vote for, I really wish i ahd more time to work on some deities The Topic and Voting Page 2.Bloodlines {xxx} 3.Racial Paragon classes {xxx} -- 4.Varient classes {xxx} 5.Prestigious base classes {xxx} 7.Traits {x} 8.Flaws {xx} 9.Spelltouched feats {xx} -- 11.Defense Bonus {xxx} 12.Armor as DR {xxx} 14.Death and Dying {xxx} 15.Action points {xx} 18.Variable Mods {x} -- 24.Recharge magic {xx} 25.Legendary Weapons {xx} -- Other Alternate Rules {as above, check all that apply} 3.Keen stacks w/improved crit {xxx} 4.Open ended crits {xx} 8.Fixed Defense Bonus {x} 9.Reducing Level Adjustment. {xx} Deities b. Mundane/materialistic? Deities (Deities are concerned with certain aspects of life, such as farming, crafts, dance, childbirth, etc. They are very interested in the material world and tend to walk the world in mortal form, or to manifest in showy-i'm-a-giant-god fashion) {x /}
rydi123 11-17-06, 10:41 PM	Here is what I vote for, I really wish i ahd more time to work on some deities yeah, i know the feeling. i just started a new job, and the semester is nearing its end, so i am reeealy busy right now, making it very hard to even get online, much less write up stuff for this. but it is still on my mind.