Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thelon Fairblade 07-07-05, 01:50 PM	Okay, this applies to UA because the concept is a Wizard uses the Daily Spell List variant.... Here's the actual thought: a Wizard must Learn his spells much like the current Sorcerer Spells Known rules. Wizard flavor-text means he still needs to be taught or learn from a book or scroll; limitation woul dbe relaxed, requiring a "refresher" every week or month to maintain spell knowledge (and hence, a reason to have spellbooks). The wizard could then cast the (limited) spells he knows, as he chooses, up to his daily limit. The sorcerer, on the other hand, would have the wizard's current signature of vast spell repertoire, but with some kind of limitation (at least, fatiguing magic side effect, or nonlethal damage). I don't know what I want here, but the brainstorm thought was "cast any spell in the book (except named spells)", but at minimum level. So, for example, a Wizard 8 who *learns* Fireball can now cast fireball whenever he wants (limited by spell slots), for 8 HD. A Sorcerer can cast Fireball or Iceball or acid ball, or lightning bolt, or or or, but it will always be 5 HD, and might fatigue him. The Wizard can't cast Fly, because he doesn't know it; the Sorcerer could choose to cast Fly instead of Fireball, just because he wants to fly. The wizard could learn Mordenkainen's Sword or Tenser's Floating Disk (ostensibly, by studying from Tenser's or Mordenkainen's notes), but the Sorcerer could not. Just a thought... the wizards learn spells in detail, can what they know, and don't forget. Sorcerers can make magic do whatever they want, but tire themselves out, and can't quite accomplish the higher refinements of the wizard.
rbrt_Spade 07-07-05, 03:03 PM	so your basicly renaming sorcerer "wizard" and wizard "sorcerer" :confused: sorry im confused reading it! :confused: :weep:
mrurbanitesmiley 07-07-05, 07:03 PM	So, sorcerers get boned more? The spontaneous casting is the only thing that makes sorcerers at all playable, and you take that away from them (or give wizards the same thing) and add in that sorcerers take damage when casting spells or can't cast spells at max level, you make the wizard really cool and the sorcerer suck more than ever. Also, unless you add in requirements on the amount of spells a wizard can know, the wizards repetoire will be anything but limited. My 2 cents.
IceFractal 07-07-05, 07:41 PM	So basically, the Wizard is now like a Sorcerer, except with less spells per day and a bit faster progression, and they have to occasionally restudy their spells. Whereas the Sorcerer can spontaneously cast any spell on the Sor/Wiz list, but casts it at minimum CL or with fatigue. Well, it sounds interesting, but it may take some balancing. Let's take the Wizard first. The upside of the new Wizard over the standard Sorcerer is that they learn new spell levels at 3,5,7,etc. rather than 4,6,8,etc. The disadvantage is that they have 2 less slots of each level per day, and they have to occasionally refresh their spell knowledge, and they need a source to get their spells from. This seems a bit weak. I'd up it to 5 of each spell level max, as if they were a specialist Wizard, which would then be, IMO, a fair trade-off for faster spell progression. As for having to learn their spells from scrolls/books and keep a spellbook, the bonus feats seem like a fair trade-off for that. As for the Sorcerer, it's a little harder to balance. They're gaining huge versatility, so they obviously need some downside, but I'm not sure what a good one would be. Minimum CL would mainly steer them away from damaging spells and toward utilities and insta-kill types. Fatigue might be a good balance, although it would mean, again, that they would be excellent at utility casting and not very good at combat casting. Perhaps less spells per day?
Thelon Fairblade 07-08-05, 02:51 PM	Okay, IceFractal got the gist... The "new Wizard" would have the extremely limited "spells Known" that the current sorcerer has (*maybe* loosened up a bit). The "new Sorcerer" would have ultimate versatility (the ability to cast any spell from the Sorc/Wiz list), with a drawback. Drawbacks I had envisioned were fatigue (maybe even something extremely short-term, like 1 round per spell level) or nonlethal damage (or new mechanic of "mana damage" that only has an effect at certain levels, to avoid earlier death issues), or the limited caster level. Maybe my mental picture isn't going to work in a "the classes are balanced against each other" sort of way...