Cards!! [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Cards!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Chimera245
11-29-06, 03:00 PM Okay, Someone had an idea, someone saw that idea, and expanded, someone else saw that idea and expanded, and so on until you get to me.

But my expansion of the idea is flawed! Help!

Some RPG (I think it had "Mutants" in the name...) had a variant rule for using a deck of cards instead of dice rolls. Each card meant a number from 1-20, and you draw a card whenever you would normally need to roll a die.

Some guy on these boards had the idea of drawing an entire hand of cards, and picking and choosing what "rolls" happened from your existing hand of cards.

I had the idea of making each card with several numbers on it representing different kinds of rolls. A card you draw might have a good attack roll, an average saving throw, and a cruddy skill check, for example.

Every card has four numbers on it. an Attack Roll, a Saving Throw, a Skill Check, and a Miscellaneous roll, to be used for anything from rolling initiative, to caster level checks, to whatever else doesn't fall under the other three.
And I set the Jokers up so that One had all 1's and the other had all 20's

And somewhere along the way, Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories crept in, and I came up with a Card Break system. (of course, that only really fits if the campaign views the cards as actual tangible forces in the game rather than just another way to roll the dice.) The actual printed value is used for this. (three of clubs, king of diamonds, etc.) with Aces working like Zeroes in KH:CoM. On top of that, the 20's joker always loses, and the 1's joker always wins.

The only problem is...Magic!
Magic almost never needs to make a roll to happen. And thus would never need to use a card. That alone makes the system less useful for any kind of spellcaster, but if the card break rules are used, then Magic cannot be stopped. And it would often be one of the things you'd want to stop the most.

Any Ideas what I can to to make the system work regarding Magic?
stargate525
11-29-06, 05:59 PM Okay, Someone had an idea, someone saw that idea, and expanded, someone else saw that idea and expanded, and so on until you get to me.

But my expansion of the idea is flawed! Help!

*snip*

Any Ideas what I can to to make the system work regarding Magic?

yeah, have a special pile for the magic-users. Have these cards have the save DC roll (don't apply the base ten in this instance), a concentration roll, and a spellcraft roll. They use those, and the break rules apply as normal.

Now I'm trying to think of a way for card-based damage...
User5127
11-29-06, 11:56 PM actually I've heard of this variant.

IIRC you remove all the face cards and jokers from a deck, black cars are assigned face value +10 and red is taken at face value. grab two decks mix them and assign a player 5 cards. the play can then use a card when he has to make a d20 roll.

if magic allows a player to re-roll for a different result then the entire hand is pitched and a new one is drawn.

dms are allowed to use a hand of up to 8 cards (since they manage more creatures and often make more rolls) those cards are pooled for all npc and critter interactions.

once a play burns all 5 cards he must draw a new hand of cards. as well a player can't drop a can't on any skill checks outside of combat in order to get a better hand of cards, on any situation where a player can take 10, they must.

its an interesting variant and I like it. I may try it out in my next game.
its a great way for players to play the strengths of their characters. IE: a character that would hit enemies easily would use high cards for those rolls.

i think to keep it simple it should be used jsut for a d20 roll. and not have more than one value.. but thats just me
Chimera245
12-01-06, 07:46 PM I was also thinking of having each player's hand size influenced by the character's stats, too. Such as a hand size of 5 + Int modifier, or something.

I also thought of having the "reroll something" type abilities work like "Draw x cards, then choose and discard x cards"

I was also trying to decide whether a player draws a new card every time he uses one, so the number of cards he has is constant, or if they can be used up, and some kind of action on his part is required to draw more. Taking an action on the character's part would probably only fit in a campaign where the cards were a present magical force, and even then, it would be kind of annoying.

As far as the Card Break rules, should the Suit matter? if someone's attacking using a Four of Spades, does it matter if someone tries to break it with a Five of Diamonds or a Five of Clubs? (Also, I think anyone who wants to break a card has to pick the card he's using to do it when he decides to take the readied action of breaking, or else no one would ever fail to break, because they'd get to see the value of the card when it gets played.) I might make it a tiebreaker kind of thing. Six of clubs breaks six of Diamonds, but is broken by six of hearts, for example...

If it matters to anything, I have each suit be better at one kind of roll, too.
Suit: Best (16-20), Good (11-15), Bad (6-10), Worst (1-5)
Spades: Attack Roll, Misc. Roll, Skill Check, Saving Throw
Diamonds: Misc. Roll, Skill Check, Saving Throw, Attack Roll
Clubs: Skill Check, Saving Throw, Attack Roll, Misc. Roll
Hearts: Saving Throw, Attack Roll, Misc. Roll, Skill Check

Anyone who takes 20 discards all cards and redraws a fresh hand. (because he's essentially drawing and using cards until he gets that 20, just like rolling until you get a 20)
Should players still have the option of taking 10? The whole point is getting to pick and choose your rolls already.

As far as using the cards to generate a spell's save DC, what about when the spell allows no save?

As far as doing inconsequential things outside of cmbat for better cards, like bluffing commoners, I think the defferent values for different types of rolls fixes that. Every card is gonna be good at SOMETHING. Even a fighter with a handful of cards with attack rolls of 1-5 could try feinting to get his opponent flatfooted so the low cards might still hit, or might ready an action to break someone else's action.

Any more thoughts?
fatal error
12-02-06, 05:00 AM I was also trying to decide whether a player draws a new card every time he uses one, so the number of cards he has is constant, or if they can be used up, and some kind of action on his part is required to draw more.

If you let him draw a new card each time he would probably never have low "rolls" being made. I would say just play 'em until you run out, then draw back to 5 for free. Which could lead to players trying to throw in some quick and relatively meaningless action to dump a low card and draw a new hand before their next series of attacks. Which brings us to the next part, what would you do about characters with a lot of attacks? Such as two-weapon fighting monks, or even just fighters, at high levels.
a_psh
12-02-06, 05:27 AM Every card has four numbers on it. an Attack Roll, a Saving Throw, a Skill Check, and a Miscellaneous roll, to be used for anything from rolling initiative, to caster level checks, to whatever else doesn't fall under the other three.
And I set the Jokers up so that One had all 1's and the other had all 20'sWouldn't having four numbers per card kind of skew the results, since you'd always be trying to spend optimally?

For a similar idea done a bit different, you could copy the old Saga system (used by, err, Marvel Heroes and Dragonlance 5th Age games?) a little to make it simpler. Basically, each card in the deck has a value and a suit. If you use it for what that suit is good for (in Saga, there were 8 suits and 8 matching abilities), you not only get that card, but you get to flip a card from the top of the deck and add its value to the card you played. So low cards are still worth something, though mostly in a gambly kind of way.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chimera245 11-29-06, 03:00 PM	Okay, Someone had an idea, someone saw that idea, and expanded, someone else saw that idea and expanded, and so on until you get to me. But my expansion of the idea is flawed! Help! Some RPG (I think it had "Mutants" in the name...) had a variant rule for using a deck of cards instead of dice rolls. Each card meant a number from 1-20, and you draw a card whenever you would normally need to roll a die. Some guy on these boards had the idea of drawing an entire hand of cards, and picking and choosing what "rolls" happened from your existing hand of cards. I had the idea of making each card with several numbers on it representing different kinds of rolls. A card you draw might have a good attack roll, an average saving throw, and a cruddy skill check, for example. Every card has four numbers on it. an Attack Roll, a Saving Throw, a Skill Check, and a Miscellaneous roll, to be used for anything from rolling initiative, to caster level checks, to whatever else doesn't fall under the other three. And I set the Jokers up so that One had all 1's and the other had all 20's And somewhere along the way, Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories crept in, and I came up with a Card Break system. (of course, that only really fits if the campaign views the cards as actual tangible forces in the game rather than just another way to roll the dice.) The actual printed value is used for this. (three of clubs, king of diamonds, etc.) with Aces working like Zeroes in KH:CoM. On top of that, the 20's joker always loses, and the 1's joker always wins. The only problem is...Magic! Magic almost never needs to make a roll to happen. And thus would never need to use a card. That alone makes the system less useful for any kind of spellcaster, but if the card break rules are used, then Magic cannot be stopped. And it would often be one of the things you'd want to stop the most. Any Ideas what I can to to make the system work regarding Magic?
stargate525 11-29-06, 05:59 PM	Okay, Someone had an idea, someone saw that idea, and expanded, someone else saw that idea and expanded, and so on until you get to me. But my expansion of the idea is flawed! Help! snip Any Ideas what I can to to make the system work regarding Magic? yeah, have a special pile for the magic-users. Have these cards have the save DC roll (don't apply the base ten in this instance), a concentration roll, and a spellcraft roll. They use those, and the break rules apply as normal. Now I'm trying to think of a way for card-based damage...
User5127 11-29-06, 11:56 PM	actually I've heard of this variant. IIRC you remove all the face cards and jokers from a deck, black cars are assigned face value +10 and red is taken at face value. grab two decks mix them and assign a player 5 cards. the play can then use a card when he has to make a d20 roll. if magic allows a player to re-roll for a different result then the entire hand is pitched and a new one is drawn. dms are allowed to use a hand of up to 8 cards (since they manage more creatures and often make more rolls) those cards are pooled for all npc and critter interactions. once a play burns all 5 cards he must draw a new hand of cards. as well a player can't drop a can't on any skill checks outside of combat in order to get a better hand of cards, on any situation where a player can take 10, they must. its an interesting variant and I like it. I may try it out in my next game. its a great way for players to play the strengths of their characters. IE: a character that would hit enemies easily would use high cards for those rolls. i think to keep it simple it should be used jsut for a d20 roll. and not have more than one value.. but thats just me
Chimera245 12-01-06, 07:46 PM	I was also thinking of having each player's hand size influenced by the character's stats, too. Such as a hand size of 5 + Int modifier, or something. I also thought of having the "reroll something" type abilities work like "Draw x cards, then choose and discard x cards" I was also trying to decide whether a player draws a new card every time he uses one, so the number of cards he has is constant, or if they can be used up, and some kind of action on his part is required to draw more. Taking an action on the character's part would probably only fit in a campaign where the cards were a present magical force, and even then, it would be kind of annoying. As far as the Card Break rules, should the Suit matter? if someone's attacking using a Four of Spades, does it matter if someone tries to break it with a Five of Diamonds or a Five of Clubs? (Also, I think anyone who wants to break a card has to pick the card he's using to do it when he decides to take the readied action of breaking, or else no one would ever fail to break, because they'd get to see the value of the card when it gets played.) I might make it a tiebreaker kind of thing. Six of clubs breaks six of Diamonds, but is broken by six of hearts, for example... If it matters to anything, I have each suit be better at one kind of roll, too. Suit: Best (16-20), Good (11-15), Bad (6-10), Worst (1-5) Spades: Attack Roll, Misc. Roll, Skill Check, Saving Throw Diamonds: Misc. Roll, Skill Check, Saving Throw, Attack Roll Clubs: Skill Check, Saving Throw, Attack Roll, Misc. Roll Hearts: Saving Throw, Attack Roll, Misc. Roll, Skill Check Anyone who takes 20 discards all cards and redraws a fresh hand. (because he's essentially drawing and using cards until he gets that 20, just like rolling until you get a 20) Should players still have the option of taking 10? The whole point is getting to pick and choose your rolls already. As far as using the cards to generate a spell's save DC, what about when the spell allows no save? As far as doing inconsequential things outside of cmbat for better cards, like bluffing commoners, I think the defferent values for different types of rolls fixes that. Every card is gonna be good at SOMETHING. Even a fighter with a handful of cards with attack rolls of 1-5 could try feinting to get his opponent flatfooted so the low cards might still hit, or might ready an action to break someone else's action. Any more thoughts?
fatal error 12-02-06, 05:00 AM	I was also trying to decide whether a player draws a new card every time he uses one, so the number of cards he has is constant, or if they can be used up, and some kind of action on his part is required to draw more. If you let him draw a new card each time he would probably never have low "rolls" being made. I would say just play 'em until you run out, then draw back to 5 for free. Which could lead to players trying to throw in some quick and relatively meaningless action to dump a low card and draw a new hand before their next series of attacks. Which brings us to the next part, what would you do about characters with a lot of attacks? Such as two-weapon fighting monks, or even just fighters, at high levels.
a_psh 12-02-06, 05:27 AM	Every card has four numbers on it. an Attack Roll, a Saving Throw, a Skill Check, and a Miscellaneous roll, to be used for anything from rolling initiative, to caster level checks, to whatever else doesn't fall under the other three. And I set the Jokers up so that One had all 1's and the other had all 20'sWouldn't having four numbers per card kind of skew the results, since you'd always be trying to spend optimally? For a similar idea done a bit different, you could copy the old Saga system (used by, err, Marvel Heroes and Dragonlance 5th Age games?) a little to make it simpler. Basically, each card in the deck has a value and a suit. If you use it for what that suit is good for (in Saga, there were 8 suits and 8 matching abilities), you not only get that card, but you get to flip a card from the top of the deck and add its value to the card you played. So low cards are still worth something, though mostly in a gambly kind of way.