Casting Defensively change [Archive] - Wizards Community

Casting Defensively change [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tethka
02-10-05, 03:07 PM Spell casting in my D&D (3.5) world is more difficult than other D&D worlds. The essence of magic both arcane and divine is harder to control. So the following change for casting defensively is as follows.

Normal rule is: DC 15 + spell level.

Rule change is: DC 10 + spell level + Base Attack of threatening opponent divide by 2 (rounded down) + 2 for each additional threatening opponent beyond the first.

The reason (besides what is above) is it should be more difficult to cast defensively against a dragon than a kobold or a high level NPC than a low level one. I done the numbers and this seems to work without making it impossible to cast a spell defensively but more difficult. However I have not placed this house rule into my game yet.

Please post your opinons about this rule change.
Thank you.
Lord_Anthrax
02-10-05, 06:15 PM Interesting idea, but it could cause some serious frustration for PC's if they get mobbed by a horde of weak enemies, especially at higher levels when those enemies wouldn't even count for XP.

For example: A 20th-Level Wizard is surrounded by 8 1st-Level Warriors. That's a DC 24+SL right there. If it was 16 Halflings with Swarmfighting, it'd be at least 40+SL. If it was something like Gibberlings(see Monsters of Faerun), it could be 24 of them, for a DC 56+SL! A 20th-Level Wizard surrounded by CR 1/3 creatures fails all his checks to cast defensively? Something sounds kind of off here to me...
Ante
02-11-05, 05:24 AM I think your formula looks like to much arithmetics by the gaming table. I'd simplify the formula in some way, like DC 5 + spell lvl + BAB of oponent or something.
Nephlite
02-11-05, 08:14 AM Interesting idea, but it could cause some serious frustration for PC's if they get mobbed by a horde of weak enemies, especially at higher levels when those enemies wouldn't even count for XP.

For example: A 20th-Level Wizard is surrounded by 8 1st-Level Warriors. That's a DC 24+SL right there. If it was 16 Halflings with Swarmfighting, it'd be at least 40+SL. If it was something like Gibberlings(see Monsters of Faerun), it could be 24 of them, for a DC 56+SL! A 20th-Level Wizard surrounded by CR 1/3 creatures fails all his checks to cast defensively? Something sounds kind of off here to me...
Ranks of lv 20 23
So Wixard lv 20 has at least 23 ranks in Concentration.
so you need 1 + spell level.

Um, how can you defense and cast that well by being swarmed one would ask?
HailSpork
02-13-05, 02:00 AM Better than if you were grappled by a swarm of gibberlings.
That is only a DC 20 check (provided it's still and you have the components, if any, in hand).
So, for the sake of argument, let's pretend it's a still spell that my mage is trying to cast at the gibberlings. That shouldn't affect whether or not it provokes an att-op should it?

Personally, I think it should be more like tumble. You make one check for each monster that threatens you, with a +2 to the dc for every monster past the first. If you fail, you get an att-op (which *could* cause the spell to fail). If course, the downside here is you could potentially be making a sickeningly high number of concentration checks.

As for making it harder to cast defensively against a better trained opponent, I ask: Why?
Essentially, here's how combat works. I have a fighter with a BAB of 11. I have a mage who wants to cast at the fighter while in melee range. On the fighter's turn, he gets 3 openings against the mage. If the mage is not careful when he casts, he will get a 4th openening. If the fighter were higher leveled, he would get an extra opening that he would take *during his turn*.

I can understand wanting to make it more difficult against more opponents, but it is senseless to make it more difficult just because of the skill of the opponent.
If you really want this, I suggest 2 feats:
1) from the 3.0 epic book, Spellcasting Harrier. This does almost exactly what you're suggesting except it's an epic feat (and based on half character level rather than BAB). Still, for most people who would take this, that's not that much of a difference. (at most 5 points. hardly the difference between an epic and non-epic feat)
2) From complete arcane and the miniatures handbook, Mage Slayer.
Tethka
02-13-05, 09:31 PM Thank you for the replies, I will certainly take all that I've read into account before deciding what to do (if anything) when it comes to casting defensively.

Please continue to post replies, I will keep checking back.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tethka 02-10-05, 03:07 PM	Spell casting in my D&D (3.5) world is more difficult than other D&D worlds. The essence of magic both arcane and divine is harder to control. So the following change for casting defensively is as follows. Normal rule is: DC 15 + spell level. Rule change is: DC 10 + spell level + Base Attack of threatening opponent divide by 2 (rounded down) + 2 for each additional threatening opponent beyond the first. The reason (besides what is above) is it should be more difficult to cast defensively against a dragon than a kobold or a high level NPC than a low level one. I done the numbers and this seems to work without making it impossible to cast a spell defensively but more difficult. However I have not placed this house rule into my game yet. Please post your opinons about this rule change. Thank you.
Lord_Anthrax 02-10-05, 06:15 PM	Interesting idea, but it could cause some serious frustration for PC's if they get mobbed by a horde of weak enemies, especially at higher levels when those enemies wouldn't even count for XP. For example: A 20th-Level Wizard is surrounded by 8 1st-Level Warriors. That's a DC 24+SL right there. If it was 16 Halflings with Swarmfighting, it'd be at least 40+SL. If it was something like Gibberlings(see Monsters of Faerun), it could be 24 of them, for a DC 56+SL! A 20th-Level Wizard surrounded by CR 1/3 creatures fails all his checks to cast defensively? Something sounds kind of off here to me...
Ante 02-11-05, 05:24 AM	I think your formula looks like to much arithmetics by the gaming table. I'd simplify the formula in some way, like DC 5 + spell lvl + BAB of oponent or something.
Nephlite 02-11-05, 08:14 AM	Interesting idea, but it could cause some serious frustration for PC's if they get mobbed by a horde of weak enemies, especially at higher levels when those enemies wouldn't even count for XP. For example: A 20th-Level Wizard is surrounded by 8 1st-Level Warriors. That's a DC 24+SL right there. If it was 16 Halflings with Swarmfighting, it'd be at least 40+SL. If it was something like Gibberlings(see Monsters of Faerun), it could be 24 of them, for a DC 56+SL! A 20th-Level Wizard surrounded by CR 1/3 creatures fails all his checks to cast defensively? Something sounds kind of off here to me... Ranks of lv 20 23 So Wixard lv 20 has at least 23 ranks in Concentration. so you need 1 + spell level. Um, how can you defense and cast that well by being swarmed one would ask?
HailSpork 02-13-05, 02:00 AM	Better than if you were grappled by a swarm of gibberlings. That is only a DC 20 check (provided it's still and you have the components, if any, in hand). So, for the sake of argument, let's pretend it's a still spell that my mage is trying to cast at the gibberlings. That shouldn't affect whether or not it provokes an att-op should it? Personally, I think it should be more like tumble. You make one check for each monster that threatens you, with a +2 to the dc for every monster past the first. If you fail, you get an att-op (which could cause the spell to fail). If course, the downside here is you could potentially be making a sickeningly high number of concentration checks. As for making it harder to cast defensively against a better trained opponent, I ask: Why? Essentially, here's how combat works. I have a fighter with a BAB of 11. I have a mage who wants to cast at the fighter while in melee range. On the fighter's turn, he gets 3 openings against the mage. If the mage is not careful when he casts, he will get a 4th openening. If the fighter were higher leveled, he would get an extra opening that he would take during his turn. I can understand wanting to make it more difficult against more opponents, but it is senseless to make it more difficult just because of the skill of the opponent. If you really want this, I suggest 2 feats: 1) from the 3.0 epic book, Spellcasting Harrier. This does almost exactly what you're suggesting except it's an epic feat (and based on half character level rather than BAB). Still, for most people who would take this, that's not that much of a difference. (at most 5 points. hardly the difference between an epic and non-epic feat) 2) From complete arcane and the miniatures handbook, Mage Slayer.
Tethka 02-13-05, 09:31 PM	Thank you for the replies, I will certainly take all that I've read into account before deciding what to do (if anything) when it comes to casting defensively. Please continue to post replies, I will keep checking back.