Changing attack/damage rolls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changing attack/damage rolls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Undercover
07-26-04, 05:25 PM I've just heard this idea from a friend and find it interesting. Basically the idea is that how well your attack roll goes defines how much damage you do, like if your roll was just equal to the target's AC it does minimum damage, but if the attack exceeds that AC it does more damage based on how much you exceeded the target AC. It represents your ability to drive a weapon to a specific weak spot.

In this variant there's no longer damage rolls, but each weapon has a fixed damage, to which we add the strength modifier and how much the attack succeded by.

Let's say a longsword has a +3 damage modifier and PCx has +4 strength modifier. PCx rolls an attack against AC 20 and gets a total of 25. The damage would be 12 (3+4+5) damage points. What you guys think?
SirisC
07-26-04, 10:32 PM that would make true strike even more powerfull than it already is.
Greyman
07-27-04, 12:48 AM What would you do about criticals? Hitting on a natural 20 means that the base damage is the maximum possible. Do you simply double this maximum value, or do you use the roll to confirm the critical to determine the extra damage?
Undercover
07-27-04, 08:35 AM Well, true strike can always be removed. Power attack becomes interesting only if wielding a two-handed weapon...

Criticals I think could be left the way it is, as a multiplier to damage. Indeed a natural 20 means the best hit a creature can make, translated to the best damage. (My friend prefers a critical chart as there was in 2e's Player's Option [Combat & Tactics] system II.)
But the idea of adding the confirmation roll to damage seems interesting too.

Perhaps not adding strength to damage calculation since it's already computed to your hit roll, which helps damage now. It seems it was added twice.
Greyman
07-27-04, 09:40 AM The bonus added to your attack roll isn't always the bonus added to your damage roll.

True, Strength is added to both melee attack and damage rolls, and so are magical enhancement bonuses. However, Dexterity is added only to the attack roll for ranged weapon, and so is the enhancement bonus from masterwork weapons. Then, just to complicate things further, there's Weapon Finesse and composite bows, both of which add Dexterity to attack and Strength (or partial Strength) to damage.

Oh, heck, its even more complicated when you factor in ease of use.  Light and One-handed weapons used in the off hand only add half of the Strength bonus to attack rolls, while One-handed and Two-handed weapons used in two hands add one and a half times the Strength bonus to attack. Light or One-Handed Melee weapon used in off-hand: Strength to attack, ½ Strength to damage Light or One-handed Melee weapon used in primary weapon: Strength to attack, Strength to damage Two-handed or One-Handed Melee weapon used in both hands: Strength to attack, 1½ Strength to damage Ranged weapon: Dexterity to attack, no bonus to damage. Ranged composite weapon: Dexterity to attack, Strength to damage Light or One-Handed Melee weapon used in off-hand: Strength to attack, ½ Strength to damage Weapon Finessed Light Melee weapon used in off hand weapon: Dexterity to attack, ½ Strength to damage Weapon Finessed Light Melee weapon used in primary hand: Dexterity to attack, Strength to damage Magical weapon: enhancement bonus to attack, enhancement bonus to damage Masterwork weapon: enhancement bonus to attack, no bonus to damageAnd then we come to Power Attack. This subtracts a number from your attack roll and adds the same number to damage. Oh, except that with two handed weapons, or one-handed weapons wielded in two hands, the number you add to the damage roll is twice the number subtracted from the attack roll. Oh, and the number substracted can't exceed your base attack bonus (which is also added to your attack roll).
Greyman
07-27-04, 10:29 AM Thrown weapons add Dexterity modifier to attack and Strength modifier to damage.  Also, characters with a Strength penalty do suffer this penalty to a ranged weapon's damage roll.

(Oh, there's also the range penalty to attack rolls with ranged weapons (–2 for each increment).)

Next consider size. The die category of a weapon increases or decreases in proportion to the size of the creature for which they are made to be used. But that creature also has a size modifier which increases or decreases in inverse proportion to the size of the creature. This size modifier is added to the creatures attack rolls and armor class. Smaller creatures have larger attack rolls and armor class than larger creatures.
Undercover
07-27-04, 10:52 AM Taking all of this in consideration I realise it's more than just changing attack/damage rolls, but the entirety of the combat system. Heck, could even be cool, simpler and more credible, but I don't feel like creating another system, at least not now. Thanks for the input.
mycroft65536
07-27-04, 02:39 PM This is power attack. Except instead of it being guessed at in advance, it is automatic.
shadeling
07-30-04, 03:01 PM Originally posted by Undercover
Taking all of this in consideration I realise it's more than just changing attack/damage rolls, but the entirety of the combat system. Heck, could even be cool, simpler and more credible, but I don't feel like creating another system, at least not now. Thanks for the input.

Sword and Sorcery's Advanced Player's Handbook 3.5 has a decent non-standard damage system and critical hit charts.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Undercover 07-26-04, 05:25 PM	I've just heard this idea from a friend and find it interesting. Basically the idea is that how well your attack roll goes defines how much damage you do, like if your roll was just equal to the target's AC it does minimum damage, but if the attack exceeds that AC it does more damage based on how much you exceeded the target AC. It represents your ability to drive a weapon to a specific weak spot. In this variant there's no longer damage rolls, but each weapon has a fixed damage, to which we add the strength modifier and how much the attack succeded by. Let's say a longsword has a +3 damage modifier and PCx has +4 strength modifier. PCx rolls an attack against AC 20 and gets a total of 25. The damage would be 12 (3+4+5) damage points. What you guys think?
SirisC 07-26-04, 10:32 PM	that would make true strike even more powerfull than it already is.
Greyman 07-27-04, 12:48 AM	What would you do about criticals? Hitting on a natural 20 means that the base damage is the maximum possible. Do you simply double this maximum value, or do you use the roll to confirm the critical to determine the extra damage?
Undercover 07-27-04, 08:35 AM	Well, true strike can always be removed. Power attack becomes interesting only if wielding a two-handed weapon... Criticals I think could be left the way it is, as a multiplier to damage. Indeed a natural 20 means the best hit a creature can make, translated to the best damage. (My friend prefers a critical chart as there was in 2e's Player's Option [Combat & Tactics] system II.) But the idea of adding the confirmation roll to damage seems interesting too. Perhaps not adding strength to damage calculation since it's already computed to your hit roll, which helps damage now. It seems it was added twice.
Greyman 07-27-04, 09:40 AM	The bonus added to your attack roll isn't always the bonus added to your damage roll. True, Strength is added to both melee attack and damage rolls, and so are magical enhancement bonuses. However, Dexterity is added only to the attack roll for ranged weapon, and so is the enhancement bonus from masterwork weapons. Then, just to complicate things further, there's Weapon Finesse and composite bows, both of which add Dexterity to attack and Strength (or partial Strength) to damage. Oh, heck, its even more complicated when you factor in ease of use.  Light and One-handed weapons used in the off hand only add half of the Strength bonus to attack rolls, while One-handed and Two-handed weapons used in two hands add one and a half times the Strength bonus to attack. Light or One-Handed Melee weapon used in off-hand: Strength to attack, ½ Strength to damage Light or One-handed Melee weapon used in primary weapon: Strength to attack, Strength to damage Two-handed or One-Handed Melee weapon used in both hands: Strength to attack, 1½ Strength to damage Ranged weapon: Dexterity to attack, no bonus to damage. Ranged composite weapon: Dexterity to attack, Strength to damage Light or One-Handed Melee weapon used in off-hand: Strength to attack, ½ Strength to damage Weapon Finessed Light Melee weapon used in off hand weapon: Dexterity to attack, ½ Strength to damage Weapon Finessed Light Melee weapon used in primary hand: Dexterity to attack, Strength to damage Magical weapon: enhancement bonus to attack, enhancement bonus to damage Masterwork weapon: enhancement bonus to attack, no bonus to damageAnd then we come to Power Attack. This subtracts a number from your attack roll and adds the same number to damage. Oh, except that with two handed weapons, or one-handed weapons wielded in two hands, the number you add to the damage roll is twice the number subtracted from the attack roll. Oh, and the number substracted can't exceed your base attack bonus (which is also added to your attack roll).
Greyman 07-27-04, 10:29 AM	Thrown weapons add Dexterity modifier to attack and Strength modifier to damage.  Also, characters with a Strength penalty do suffer this penalty to a ranged weapon's damage roll. (Oh, there's also the range penalty to attack rolls with ranged weapons (–2 for each increment).) Next consider size. The die category of a weapon increases or decreases in proportion to the size of the creature for which they are made to be used. But that creature also has a size modifier which increases or decreases in inverse proportion to the size of the creature. This size modifier is added to the creatures attack rolls and armor class. Smaller creatures have larger attack rolls and armor class than larger creatures.
Undercover 07-27-04, 10:52 AM	Taking all of this in consideration I realise it's more than just changing attack/damage rolls, but the entirety of the combat system. Heck, could even be cool, simpler and more credible, but I don't feel like creating another system, at least not now. Thanks for the input.
mycroft65536 07-27-04, 02:39 PM	This is power attack. Except instead of it being guessed at in advance, it is automatic.
shadeling 07-30-04, 03:01 PM	Originally posted by Undercover Taking all of this in consideration I realise it's more than just changing attack/damage rolls, but the entirety of the combat system. Heck, could even be cool, simpler and more credible, but I don't feel like creating another system, at least not now. Thanks for the input. Sword and Sorcery's Advanced Player's Handbook 3.5 has a decent non-standard damage system and critical hit charts.