Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MadBlue 04-23-05, 11:06 PM	Came up with another idea the other day for an "Action-Point-like" mechanic using Charisma as a basis. (to those of you who are familiar with my other posts on Charisma, particularly the Bonus Feats Based on Charisma thread, there's a bit of repetition here, but for the sake of completeness, I've included it here) While they're described as having to do with luck in Eberron, the ways Action Points are spent seem to represent a character pushing themselves harder to achieve (adding to the d20 roll), or evoking something from within (additional uses of class abilities and stabilizing). Sorcerers and Bards get their powers through Charisma because of "inborn talent and ability". High Charisma characters are described as "confident" (PHB p10), the MM says Charisma represents "sense of self" (MM p298) and the flavor text for the "Force of Personality" Feat (CV p109) says "You have cultivated an unshakable belief in your self-worth. Your sense of self and purpose are so strong that they bolster your willpower". The "unshakable belief" and "bolster your willpower" parts are what the Feat is about, but "self-worth" and "sense of self and purpose" are Charisma-related. It would seem to me that a higher Charisma character should be able to push themselves harder to achieve, and draw upon more innate talent, than a character with a lower Charisma. One idea that many people have come up with is giving bonus AP for high Charisma (which is a good idea in and of itself). A criticism that some have had is that, since AP are spent and only replenished each level, Charisma would only really grant a temporary bonus. The idea I'm working with here is a bit of a departure from the normal AP rules (and wouldn't work in campaigns where AP are the norm, such as Eberron - although using the Charisma modifier would). Here it is: A beginning (1st level) character starts the game with 1 Action Point. AP can be used once per day. You can spend 1 AP to improve the results of an attack roll, a skill check, an ability check, a level check or a saving throw. When you spend an AP, you add the result of a roll of 1d6 +/- your Charisma modifier to your d20 roll to help you meet or exceed the target number for the roll. It's possible to get a negative number when spending an AP. You can also spend 1 AP to stabilize (if using a house rule where characters roll a Fort save or Con check to stabilize, AP use is covered as above). If your character is 8th level or higher, you can roll more than one d6 when you spend an AP (and use the highest of the die rolls): Lvl AP Dice Rolled 1-7 1d6 8-14 2d6 15-20 3d6 NPCs have AP as well. It's up to the DM to determine whether or not an NPC has spent their AP at the time of the encounter (in the same way the DM determines whether or not the NPC has used spells or x/day class abilities). Permutations: Characters have 2 AP/day at levels 8-14 and 3 AP/day at levels 15-20. A character may spend 2 AP to get one more daily use of an x/day class ability. MadBlue
Thelon Fairblade 04-25-05, 12:58 PM	Two alternative suggestions: #1 (used in my campaign): When you spend an Action Point to influence a d20 roll (i.e. not to use/do some other special action), you add your CHA modifier to the result. Example #1: Wystov the BattleSorcerer (CHA 17) does a Power Attack with his longspear against the plate-armored foe. He rolls a total of 13, which he knows will miss. He spends an Action Point, and adds 1d6 (AP) +3 (CHA mod) to his attack roll; he rolls a 4, for a total of 20... he hits! Example #2: Greta the Barbarian (7 CHA) sees her companion (Wystov) put extra oomph into his blow, and tries to do the same. Her attack roll is a 16, not quite enough to injure through the foe's full plate armor. She spends an action point, adding 1d6 (AP) -2 (CHA mod)... she rolls a 4, for a total of 18... she barely hits! #2: Modify the number of action points gained at level up by the CHA mod. Example #1: Wystov gains 8 + 1/2 level, due to his 17 CHA. Example #2: Greta gains 3 + 1/2 level, due to her 7 CHA. Alternate: Keep the base 5, modify the level-up bonus in some way. Like a +3 cha-mod bonus gets 2/3 level, but -2 CHA mod penalty gets 1/4 levels... I don't like #2 so much because Action Points can be spent for other purposes like cinematic actions and one-shot feat use.. Greta shouldn't be penalized on her options.... she might not as good at them as Wystov, but she can still try. Plus, there are feats (Eberron) that grant +3 AP/lvl, and feats that increase bonus-die size to d8, but none that actually modify the value (hence this CHA-based rule would be a new twist, and not duplicatable or compensatable with feats).
MadBlue 04-26-05, 08:49 AM	Two alternative suggestions:Actually, I touched upon both of them in my post - not in detail because they've been covered elsewhere. Mind you, they're both good ideas, but I was offering the daily use idea as an alternative to them. :D MadBlue
Tuneless Bard 04-26-05, 09:29 AM	so we meet again, madblue... :) I must admit i like the idea of modified action point system much better than a bonus feat system... and adding the charisma score to the action point result gives the same "man having a bad charisma would be a pain in the butt" kind of feeling that having a low int or dex would...while not beeing too powerful if you have a high charisma... I dont know if i like the action point per day idea though...I like it more as a static number... rather then a per level increase though, i award action points for role playing instead of ad hoc XP....which would lend itself towards your charisma problem concidering alot of it routes back to a "rollplaying" vs "roleplaying" issue.... Roleplaying and flavorful characters are up sufficently once they found they get a tangible award for it (and not screwy ad hoc xp)...
MadBlue 04-26-05, 11:54 AM	I dont know if i like the action point per day idea though...I like it more as a static number...It changes the mechanic quite a bit, but it keeps the Charisma modifier valuable because you'll always wake up being able to spend an AP, whereas with the AP system as is, even if you give a Charisma mod, you can still use them all up long before they're replenished. Although, I think giving bonus/penalty AP based on Charisma mod is the least invasive change (that is, if you're using AP to begin with) and works equally well with other games that use AP. rather then a per level increase though, i award action points for role playing instead of ad hoc XP....which would lend itself towards your charisma problem concidering alot of it routes back to a "rollplaying" vs "roleplaying" issue....That's actually an interesting idea. Of course, I imagine one could get as many AP for roleplaying a low-Charisma character well as they could a high-Charisma character well. FWIW, though, I've never had a problem with the whole "rollplaying vs roleplaying" issue itself. They're just different styles of playing the game to me. My issue was about making Charisma more valuable in a hack-and-slash style (i.e. "rollplaying") game because that's the D&D game system in its most essential form - and Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma are considered equivalent abilities mechanically, so they should be of equal worth in a hack-and-slash style game. If Charisma gets dumped in many games, it's because it doesn't grant a bonus equal in value to extra skill points or a Will save bonus - and doesn't bestow a penalty equal in value to loss of skill points or a Will save penalty. Even in most non-hack-and-slash style games, if someone else is playing the party face (in which case they're probably playing a class based around Charisma anyway), those extra skill points or Will save bonus are going to look pretty tempting to the average PC. MadBlue