Charisma mod to XP [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charisma mod to XP [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
God of Slivers
02-27-05, 06:54 PM As i believe that charisma is a very weak stat I have looked for a way to improve it. One of my many ideas is to use it to modify xp earned. Whatever your cha mod is is added/subtracted to your xp earned as a percent.

If you have a -1 you lose 1% of your xp, if you have a +5, you gain an extra 5% xp. What do you think?
HailSpork
02-27-05, 07:06 PM Just like the charisma mod as feats, this gives a huge bonus to sorcerers and paladins.
Perhaps instead, give (1-5)% per -/+1 xp modification to xp gained from roleplaying encounters. Charisma should have no effect on how well you learned from fighting an ogre, but it may help in you figure out why your disguise failed.
Tony111
03-01-05, 04:01 PM I currently use this rule but at 3% per charisma bonus. For example, 16 charisma = +9% experience earned.
God of Slivers
03-01-05, 04:19 PM I currently use this rule but at 3% per charisma bonus. For example, 16 charisma = +9% experience earned.

How do your players like it? Has this stopped people from dumping charisma without a second thought?
Krelios
03-01-05, 04:20 PM Wow, let me play a Sorcerer in your games.

That's incredibly unfair to other players. I would NEVER give a poor player more experience than an excellent player because of a character's stats. That's just dumb.
God of Slivers
03-01-05, 04:54 PM Wow, let me play a Sorcerer in your games.

That's incredibly unfair to other players. I would NEVER give a poor player more experience than an excellent player because of a character's stats. That's just dumb.

How is that unfair? Who says poor players have to have high charisma? I think I'll give bonus damage from stength to someone because he roleplays well, but I won't give it to someone who roleplays poorly. :rolleyes:

Seriously dude, if you want to reward good players its called roleplaying rewards, bonus xp 'cause their good at it.

I would go on but your post has left me utterly dumbfounded.
HailSpork
03-01-05, 05:34 PM I think he's just saying that players have the capacity for both good rp'ing and bad. By giving an xp bonus based on charisma, you are ignoring the added effort that some may be putting in.

But yeah, I'd be playing a warmage in your game. I wouldn't be a whole level ahead until level 18 (I have 171,360 xp, they have 153,000) but it'd still be a nice boost.

I don't think rules like this encourage people to put high scores in charisma where they don't need it, I think it encourages people to play variants of their class that use charisma. I would play a paladin over a fighter, a bard or rogue/bard over a straight rogue, a sorcerer or warmage over a wizard, a favored soul over a cleric, etc. I've played in games where everybody was a paladin, bard, or sorcerer. It happens.
Dark Spy
03-01-05, 07:22 PM in your game i'd remake my charater that had a 32 cha. that should give me alot of xp. but that wouldn't be fair to the fighter with very low cha
God of Slivers
03-01-05, 07:48 PM in your game i'd remake my charater that had a 32 cha. that should give me alot of xp. but that wouldn't be fair to the fighter with very low cha

Keep in mind that only permanent bonus' to charisma matter (no cloaks of chrisma). Besides if you work on pumping your cha while the other fighter pumps his str and con, well I know who I'd put my money on.

WHO CARES IF ITS FAIR!?!?! If one character has better stats then another he's supposed to be better, thats the whole point of stats! Is it unfair if one fighter has more str then the other? If one does more damage? If one has a higher ac? Then why should it matter if one fighter is getting a bigger bonus from cha by having a larger stat?

Come on, the xp bonus isn't that big of a deal.
cainblueriver76
03-01-05, 07:48 PM But yeah, I'd be playing a warmage in your game. I wouldn't be a whole level ahead until level 18 (I have 171,360 xp, they have 153,000) but it'd still be a nice boost.

Take the Item familiar feat (from UA) at 6th level and you'll make it there faster as it gives the character +10% XP (both existing and future) as well as a kick butt item as you gain levels, and you don't even have to be a spellcaster to take it.
Dark Spy
03-01-05, 07:56 PM Keep in mind that only permanent bonus'

just to let you know that was all permanent bonus'. my group hated it, when ever anything got with in 20ft of me their charater would want to stop fighting if they want to or not. i love the book of exalted deeds. it's the best book ever
God of Slivers
03-01-05, 08:01 PM just to let you know that was all permanent bonus'. my group hated it, when ever anything got with in 20ft of me their charater would want to stop fighting if they want to or not. i love the book of exalted deeds. it's the best book ever

Yes it is a good book. However, even a 10% bonus to xp is not that big. As was pointed out, there is a feat in UA that can give that AND more. You won't end up a level ahead until very late game, assuming you don't spend any of it on item creation, or level loss, or casting spells, etc.

May I ask what you would do to make cha desirable? You have to admit that its a weak stat.
Dark Spy
03-01-05, 08:14 PM May I ask what you would do to make cha desirable? You have to admit that its a weak stat.

ok i'll try and remember... i think it was a dream dwart half-fey saint sorcerer that had the vow of poverty, and i rolls an 18. i forget what level it was now. could have had 2 cha higher with a star elf.

i think i know a why to get a charater with an ECL of 20 with a str of 80 :D lol. can't remember all i needed but that's with out magic itmes but with the lycanthrope template, and an un common animal
Fou-Lu
03-01-05, 08:37 PM Actually, I can't see charisma as a weak stats. Just keep in mind that some classes have different requirements for their features. A bard, a paladin or a rogue might put many points in charisma, because the stats is very important to them. (bard is a charisma-must-have class ^^)

Anyone who plays as a barbarian wouldn't even care about Intelligence... Yet, intelligence is not considered a weak stats?

"Weak" or "Strong" stats depends on the class you're playing. A wizard doesn't need any strenght to be VERY good, yet strenght is considered the most important ability to melee fighters.

Don't make characters pick up stats they don't need to improve. It's very natural that some guys would just ignore some ability scores 'cause they are useless in their classes.
God of Slivers
03-01-05, 08:47 PM Actually, I can't see charisma as a weak stats. Just keep in mind that some classes have different requirements for their features. A bard, a paladin or a rogue might put many points in charisma, because the stats is very important to them. (bard is a charisma-must-have class ^^)

Anyone who plays as a barbarian wouldn't even care about Intelligence... Yet, intelligence is not considered a weak stats?

"Weak" or "Strong" stats depends on the class you're playing. A wizard doesn't need any strenght to be VERY good, yet strenght is considered the most important ability to melee fighters.

Don't make characters pick up stats they don't need to improve. It's very natural that some guys would just ignore some ability scores 'cause they are useless in their classes.

But having a low str AFFECTS the wizard, having a low int AFFECTS the barbarian, having a low dex AFFECTS the fighter, having a low cha DOESN"T AFFECT ANYONE.
GreyGriffin
03-01-05, 08:53 PM But having a low str AFFECTS the wizard, having a low int AFFECTS the barbarian, having a low dex AFFECTS the fighter, having a low cha DOESN"T AFFECT ANYONE.

Quite wrong. Having low Charisma adversely affects Clerics, Bards, Sorcerors, and Paladins. Doing this effectively gives these classes an unmitigated buff.

What's more, Charisma is only useless if you never make charisma based checks. If you've never made a Diplomacy or Intimidate or Gather Information check, then, naturally, you might think Charisma was a weak stat. But when you've coerced the Kobold chieftain to stop attacking Town X and stand up to the Orcs that are driving them out of their own lands, then you'll realize charisma is one of the most powerful tools in the game.
God of Slivers
03-01-05, 09:15 PM Quite wrong. Having low Charisma adversely affects Clerics, Bards, Sorcerors, and Paladins. Doing this effectively gives these classes an unmitigated buff.

What's more, Charisma is only useless if you never make charisma based checks. If you've never made a Diplomacy or Intimidate or Gather Information check, then, naturally, you might think Charisma was a weak stat. But when you've coerced the Kobold chieftain to stop attacking Town X and stand up to the Orcs that are driving them out of their own lands, then you'll realize charisma is one of the most powerful tools in the game.

All stats affect skills, thats a moot point. If you think that skill bonuses are so great then lets remove all other uses for all stats. No more bonus to damage or to hit for str, just a bonus to climb checks from now on. The fact is that unless your class is directly dependant on cha it does nothing for you. A wizard is not dependant on con but if he neglects it he will suffer. A bard is not dependant on str, but if he neglects it he will pay for it. If a fighter neglects cha, he gets a free dump stat. The point is that everyone should gain/loose depending on what their charisma is. Whats the point of a stat if it doesnt affect anything?
HailSpork
03-01-05, 09:20 PM Take the Item familiar feat (from UA) at 6th level and you'll make it there faster as it gives the character +10% XP (both existing and future) as well as a kick butt item as you gain levels, and you don't even have to be a spellcaster to take it.
I'd be all for a thread talking about how broken the item familiar is.
I know how unbalanced it would be in one of the games I play in. Sure, I know you get screwed if you lose the item, but in some games that just can't happen. The gm would never hear the end of it. So, he's stuck between letting one person have an uber-powerful item, having that person leave the group, or just not allowing it.
11d7
03-01-05, 09:22 PM Whats the point of a stat if it doesnt affect anything?

Force RPing mental score levels. If somone plays a 7 Cha fighter anything above someone with a bunch of social disorders then make them create a character they can play. I dont enforce people needing to play very charismatic, wise or smart, but if they act way below or above their stats they get hit with the book (both figuritvly and litteraly).
God of Slivers
03-01-05, 09:26 PM Force RPing mental score levels. If somone plays a 7 Cha fighter anything above someone with a bunch of social disorders then make them create a character they can play. I dont enforce people needing to play very charismatic, wise or smart, but if they act way below or above their stats they get hit with the book (both figuritvly and litteraly).

I don't know about you, but I don't think I could roleplay someone with a 24 in cha or wisdom. It's hard to roleplay a mental stat when its a lot higher than your own.
MikeTheAmazingMuskrat
03-01-05, 09:28 PM Slivers, what type of in-game rationale would you create for your players for the charisma XP bump? Just curious.

-mike the amazing muskrat
Tony111
03-01-05, 09:30 PM The quote feature doesn't seem to be working. ?????

"How do your players like it? Has this stopped people from dumping charisma without a second thought?"

One player who had rolled well for stats decided to put a 16 in charisma. Everyone else dumped it as always. But at least there was an effect.

"Wow, let me play a Sorcerer in your games.

That's incredibly unfair to other players. I would NEVER give a poor player more experience than an excellent player because of a character's stats. That's just dumb."

Not at all. The wizard benefits from having a high intellgence by getting bonus spells, high DCs and by having lots of skill points. Meanwhile the sorcerer benefits from high charisma by getting bonus spells, high DCs and having a small bonus to exp. It really isn't a big deal.

"But yeah, I'd be playing a warmage in your game. I wouldn't be a whole level ahead until level 18 (I have 171,360 xp, they have 153,000) but it'd still be a nice boost."

This would require an 18 charisma from levels 1 through 18. If you roll an 18 and want to put it in charisma then this benefit is fine. You are no different from the barbarian who puts an 18 in strength or the wizard who put an 18 in intelligence. High stats are SUPPOSED to give benefits. And notice that you derive NO BENEFIT from the exp until the end of the campaign at level 18 (if we get that far). Yay! Meanwhile the wizard got an extra [4 * (18+3)] = 84 skill points that he has been using to benefit the party for the last 18 levels. And the player who put the 18 in con has an extra (4 * 18) = 72 hit points that he has been benefitting from along with the +4 additional fortitude save. Yes, you are correct. Putting an 18 into a stat and HAVING NO NON-CLASS BENEFIT for 18 flipping levels and then being a level ahead is too powerful.

As for exp to charisma benefitting bards, paladins and sorcerers, I am perfectly happy with that. Giving a small boost to that group of classes will not imbalance the game.

I mean really. What would you rather have +3% experience earned, or +1 AC, +1 reflex saves, +1 initiative, +1 ranged attack rolls?

What would you rather have +3% experience earned or +1 will saves?

What would you rather have +3% experience earned or +1 fortitude saves and +1 hit points per level?

Is it that bad people?

Tony
God of Slivers
03-01-05, 09:32 PM Slivers, what type of in-game rationale would you create for your players for the charisma XP bump? Just curious.

-mike the amazing muskrat

Charisma is the mental version of strength, therfore a person with higher cha is mentally stronger. Additionally, the only thing that seperates an object and a creature is a cha score. This implies that charisma is like the soul of a person, a higher cha means a stronger soul. XP is the measure of the strength of your soul, thats why level loss sucks xp, its a direct attack on your soul. Thats why when you make a magic item it costs xp, you put a little bit of your life force in the item. I figured cha might make sense to mod your cha.
God of Slivers
03-01-05, 09:35 PM Thank you Tony111. I see I'm not alone in the "This doesn't destroy the world" camp.
Tony111
03-01-05, 09:40 PM Thank you Tony111. I see I'm not alone in the "This doesn't destroy the world" camp.

Please, call me Tony.

As far as rationalizing why charisma boosts experience, I would say that charisma represents "force of personality" and those with a great "force of personality" grow with experience faster. Similar to what God of Slivers said. A bonus to experience probably really fits in wisdom or intelligence but it isn't too hard to rationalize it into charisma so game balance purposes.

Tony
Dartak
03-01-05, 09:51 PM In Boulders gate 2 for the ps2, they give a very similar effect for wisdom. ( yes i relize that the game is not the same as dnd. so please dont stop reading at that.) so obviusly someone realized that giving a small bonus isnt going to effect the game that horribly. I didnt notice a effect till I decided to completly cheat at it and get about a 40 cha. but that is a diffrent story. anyways, I think that this is a great idea. only im considering using the 3% variant that tony111 suggested. also, if you think this will unbalance your game in favor of people who have a better charisma in game than people who actualy can role play, then dont give the high charisma char as much role playing xp.
HailSpork
03-01-05, 09:52 PM In 2nd ed (which BG2 was), you get bonus XP if your class attributes were above a certain level. Are you sure that's not what happened? What class did you get that bonus in?
Dartak
03-01-05, 10:15 PM yes because the newest one, on playstation 2, was done for 3rd ed, and was listed under the benifits of wis. no matter what your class was.
MikeTheAmazingMuskrat
03-01-05, 10:25 PM Charisma is the mental version of strength, therfore a person with higher cha is mentally stronger. Additionally, the only thing that seperates an object and a creature is a cha score. This implies that charisma is like the soul of a person, a higher cha means a stronger soul. XP is the measure of the strength of your soul, thats why level loss sucks xp, its a direct attack on your soul. Thats why when you make a magic item it costs xp, you put a little bit of your life force in the item. I figured cha might make sense to mod your cha.
Ok, as a player I could buy that. I'd have to reshape my world-view a little bit, but it'd work. Really, my only issue is maintaining suspension of disbelief; players (or at least my players) tend to bawk at things that just don't seem to make any sense. If you can explain it, sweet.

I don't think it's unbalanced. If you think charisma is a weak stat, then this is a fix. A few points that pop into my head:
a) Characters that require CHA will probably put their high stat into CHA, regardless. Your average bard, paladin and sorcerer will level quicker than the other classes, because CHA factors heavily into their build.
b) Given that, do you think these classes deserve to level quicker, on average, than the others?
c) Some races have a lower CHA. The hit to XP might have some interesting effects if applied to racial cultures, civilizations, etc.
d) With that in mind, it makes playing low CHA races burdensome. Is a -2% to XP enough to make people just outright not play a race? Probably not, but something to consider.

-mike the amazing muskrat
Tony111
03-02-05, 05:14 PM Dear Amazing Muskrat:

You concerns are well founded, however, remember the underlining math. Given that I have an 18 is charisma, and given that you have a 10 in charisma, it will take an entire EIGHTEEN FLIPPING LEVELS before I am even one level ahead of you. So we do not have a case here where paladins, bards, and sorcerers are significantly ahead of anyone else. Instead, it may allow them to craft a few items or somesuch. Likewise, -3% experience is not going to deter many people from playing a dwarf.

Furthermore, we cannot even conclude that classes that need charisma will put their highest stat into charisma. Suppose you are a paladin with one 16 and one 14, considering which to put into strength and which to put into charisma. The tradeoff remains the same: another +3% experience vs another +1 to attack and damage and tripping and etc.

Tony
Nedlum
03-03-05, 01:06 PM Are you sure you aren't thinking of Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, which from my understanding is a hack-and-slash psudo-RPG in the genre of Diablo, rather than any actuall attempt to be a Dungeons and Dragons 3.0 game?
Antioch
03-06-05, 06:26 PM Interesting house rule, and it doesnt seem horribly unbalancing. Gives me reason to take a higher Cha as an item crafter so I can use that bonus XP to make items and not lag behind. ^_^

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
God of Slivers 02-27-05, 06:54 PM	As i believe that charisma is a very weak stat I have looked for a way to improve it. One of my many ideas is to use it to modify xp earned. Whatever your cha mod is is added/subtracted to your xp earned as a percent. If you have a -1 you lose 1% of your xp, if you have a +5, you gain an extra 5% xp. What do you think?
HailSpork 02-27-05, 07:06 PM	Just like the charisma mod as feats, this gives a huge bonus to sorcerers and paladins. Perhaps instead, give (1-5)% per -/+1 xp modification to xp gained from roleplaying encounters. Charisma should have no effect on how well you learned from fighting an ogre, but it may help in you figure out why your disguise failed.
Tony111 03-01-05, 04:01 PM	I currently use this rule but at 3% per charisma bonus. For example, 16 charisma = +9% experience earned.
God of Slivers 03-01-05, 04:19 PM	I currently use this rule but at 3% per charisma bonus. For example, 16 charisma = +9% experience earned. How do your players like it? Has this stopped people from dumping charisma without a second thought?
Krelios 03-01-05, 04:20 PM	Wow, let me play a Sorcerer in your games. That's incredibly unfair to other players. I would NEVER give a poor player more experience than an excellent player because of a character's stats. That's just dumb.
God of Slivers 03-01-05, 04:54 PM	Wow, let me play a Sorcerer in your games. That's incredibly unfair to other players. I would NEVER give a poor player more experience than an excellent player because of a character's stats. That's just dumb. How is that unfair? Who says poor players have to have high charisma? I think I'll give bonus damage from stength to someone because he roleplays well, but I won't give it to someone who roleplays poorly. :rolleyes: Seriously dude, if you want to reward good players its called roleplaying rewards, bonus xp 'cause their good at it. I would go on but your post has left me utterly dumbfounded.
HailSpork 03-01-05, 05:34 PM	I think he's just saying that players have the capacity for both good rp'ing and bad. By giving an xp bonus based on charisma, you are ignoring the added effort that some may be putting in. But yeah, I'd be playing a warmage in your game. I wouldn't be a whole level ahead until level 18 (I have 171,360 xp, they have 153,000) but it'd still be a nice boost. I don't think rules like this encourage people to put high scores in charisma where they don't need it, I think it encourages people to play variants of their class that use charisma. I would play a paladin over a fighter, a bard or rogue/bard over a straight rogue, a sorcerer or warmage over a wizard, a favored soul over a cleric, etc. I've played in games where everybody was a paladin, bard, or sorcerer. It happens.
Dark Spy 03-01-05, 07:22 PM	in your game i'd remake my charater that had a 32 cha. that should give me alot of xp. but that wouldn't be fair to the fighter with very low cha
God of Slivers 03-01-05, 07:48 PM	in your game i'd remake my charater that had a 32 cha. that should give me alot of xp. but that wouldn't be fair to the fighter with very low cha Keep in mind that only permanent bonus' to charisma matter (no cloaks of chrisma). Besides if you work on pumping your cha while the other fighter pumps his str and con, well I know who I'd put my money on. WHO CARES IF ITS FAIR!?!?! If one character has better stats then another he's supposed to be better, thats the whole point of stats! Is it unfair if one fighter has more str then the other? If one does more damage? If one has a higher ac? Then why should it matter if one fighter is getting a bigger bonus from cha by having a larger stat? Come on, the xp bonus isn't that big of a deal.
cainblueriver76 03-01-05, 07:48 PM	But yeah, I'd be playing a warmage in your game. I wouldn't be a whole level ahead until level 18 (I have 171,360 xp, they have 153,000) but it'd still be a nice boost. Take the Item familiar feat (from UA) at 6th level and you'll make it there faster as it gives the character +10% XP (both existing and future) as well as a kick butt item as you gain levels, and you don't even have to be a spellcaster to take it.
Dark Spy 03-01-05, 07:56 PM	Keep in mind that only permanent bonus' just to let you know that was all permanent bonus'. my group hated it, when ever anything got with in 20ft of me their charater would want to stop fighting if they want to or not. i love the book of exalted deeds. it's the best book ever
God of Slivers 03-01-05, 08:01 PM	just to let you know that was all permanent bonus'. my group hated it, when ever anything got with in 20ft of me their charater would want to stop fighting if they want to or not. i love the book of exalted deeds. it's the best book ever Yes it is a good book. However, even a 10% bonus to xp is not that big. As was pointed out, there is a feat in UA that can give that AND more. You won't end up a level ahead until very late game, assuming you don't spend any of it on item creation, or level loss, or casting spells, etc. May I ask what you would do to make cha desirable? You have to admit that its a weak stat.
Dark Spy 03-01-05, 08:14 PM	May I ask what you would do to make cha desirable? You have to admit that its a weak stat. ok i'll try and remember... i think it was a dream dwart half-fey saint sorcerer that had the vow of poverty, and i rolls an 18. i forget what level it was now. could have had 2 cha higher with a star elf. i think i know a why to get a charater with an ECL of 20 with a str of 80 :D lol. can't remember all i needed but that's with out magic itmes but with the lycanthrope template, and an un common animal
Fou-Lu 03-01-05, 08:37 PM	Actually, I can't see charisma as a weak stats. Just keep in mind that some classes have different requirements for their features. A bard, a paladin or a rogue might put many points in charisma, because the stats is very important to them. (bard is a charisma-must-have class ^^) Anyone who plays as a barbarian wouldn't even care about Intelligence... Yet, intelligence is not considered a weak stats? "Weak" or "Strong" stats depends on the class you're playing. A wizard doesn't need any strenght to be VERY good, yet strenght is considered the most important ability to melee fighters. Don't make characters pick up stats they don't need to improve. It's very natural that some guys would just ignore some ability scores 'cause they are useless in their classes.
God of Slivers 03-01-05, 08:47 PM	Actually, I can't see charisma as a weak stats. Just keep in mind that some classes have different requirements for their features. A bard, a paladin or a rogue might put many points in charisma, because the stats is very important to them. (bard is a charisma-must-have class ^^) Anyone who plays as a barbarian wouldn't even care about Intelligence... Yet, intelligence is not considered a weak stats? "Weak" or "Strong" stats depends on the class you're playing. A wizard doesn't need any strenght to be VERY good, yet strenght is considered the most important ability to melee fighters. Don't make characters pick up stats they don't need to improve. It's very natural that some guys would just ignore some ability scores 'cause they are useless in their classes. But having a low str AFFECTS the wizard, having a low int AFFECTS the barbarian, having a low dex AFFECTS the fighter, having a low cha DOESN"T AFFECT ANYONE.
GreyGriffin 03-01-05, 08:53 PM	But having a low str AFFECTS the wizard, having a low int AFFECTS the barbarian, having a low dex AFFECTS the fighter, having a low cha DOESN"T AFFECT ANYONE. Quite wrong. Having low Charisma adversely affects Clerics, Bards, Sorcerors, and Paladins. Doing this effectively gives these classes an unmitigated buff. What's more, Charisma is only useless if you never make charisma based checks. If you've never made a Diplomacy or Intimidate or Gather Information check, then, naturally, you might think Charisma was a weak stat. But when you've coerced the Kobold chieftain to stop attacking Town X and stand up to the Orcs that are driving them out of their own lands, then you'll realize charisma is one of the most powerful tools in the game.
God of Slivers 03-01-05, 09:15 PM	Quite wrong. Having low Charisma adversely affects Clerics, Bards, Sorcerors, and Paladins. Doing this effectively gives these classes an unmitigated buff. What's more, Charisma is only useless if you never make charisma based checks. If you've never made a Diplomacy or Intimidate or Gather Information check, then, naturally, you might think Charisma was a weak stat. But when you've coerced the Kobold chieftain to stop attacking Town X and stand up to the Orcs that are driving them out of their own lands, then you'll realize charisma is one of the most powerful tools in the game. All stats affect skills, thats a moot point. If you think that skill bonuses are so great then lets remove all other uses for all stats. No more bonus to damage or to hit for str, just a bonus to climb checks from now on. The fact is that unless your class is directly dependant on cha it does nothing for you. A wizard is not dependant on con but if he neglects it he will suffer. A bard is not dependant on str, but if he neglects it he will pay for it. If a fighter neglects cha, he gets a free dump stat. The point is that everyone should gain/loose depending on what their charisma is. Whats the point of a stat if it doesnt affect anything?
HailSpork 03-01-05, 09:20 PM	Take the Item familiar feat (from UA) at 6th level and you'll make it there faster as it gives the character +10% XP (both existing and future) as well as a kick butt item as you gain levels, and you don't even have to be a spellcaster to take it. I'd be all for a thread talking about how broken the item familiar is. I know how unbalanced it would be in one of the games I play in. Sure, I know you get screwed if you lose the item, but in some games that just can't happen. The gm would never hear the end of it. So, he's stuck between letting one person have an uber-powerful item, having that person leave the group, or just not allowing it.
11d7 03-01-05, 09:22 PM	Whats the point of a stat if it doesnt affect anything? Force RPing mental score levels. If somone plays a 7 Cha fighter anything above someone with a bunch of social disorders then make them create a character they can play. I dont enforce people needing to play very charismatic, wise or smart, but if they act way below or above their stats they get hit with the book (both figuritvly and litteraly).
God of Slivers 03-01-05, 09:26 PM	Force RPing mental score levels. If somone plays a 7 Cha fighter anything above someone with a bunch of social disorders then make them create a character they can play. I dont enforce people needing to play very charismatic, wise or smart, but if they act way below or above their stats they get hit with the book (both figuritvly and litteraly). I don't know about you, but I don't think I could roleplay someone with a 24 in cha or wisdom. It's hard to roleplay a mental stat when its a lot higher than your own.
MikeTheAmazingMuskrat 03-01-05, 09:28 PM	Slivers, what type of in-game rationale would you create for your players for the charisma XP bump? Just curious. -mike the amazing muskrat
Tony111 03-01-05, 09:30 PM	The quote feature doesn't seem to be working. ????? "How do your players like it? Has this stopped people from dumping charisma without a second thought?" One player who had rolled well for stats decided to put a 16 in charisma. Everyone else dumped it as always. But at least there was an effect. "Wow, let me play a Sorcerer in your games. That's incredibly unfair to other players. I would NEVER give a poor player more experience than an excellent player because of a character's stats. That's just dumb." Not at all. The wizard benefits from having a high intellgence by getting bonus spells, high DCs and by having lots of skill points. Meanwhile the sorcerer benefits from high charisma by getting bonus spells, high DCs and having a small bonus to exp. It really isn't a big deal. "But yeah, I'd be playing a warmage in your game. I wouldn't be a whole level ahead until level 18 (I have 171,360 xp, they have 153,000) but it'd still be a nice boost." This would require an 18 charisma from levels 1 through 18. If you roll an 18 and want to put it in charisma then this benefit is fine. You are no different from the barbarian who puts an 18 in strength or the wizard who put an 18 in intelligence. High stats are SUPPOSED to give benefits. And notice that you derive NO BENEFIT from the exp until the end of the campaign at level 18 (if we get that far). Yay! Meanwhile the wizard got an extra [4 * (18+3)] = 84 skill points that he has been using to benefit the party for the last 18 levels. And the player who put the 18 in con has an extra (4 * 18) = 72 hit points that he has been benefitting from along with the +4 additional fortitude save. Yes, you are correct. Putting an 18 into a stat and HAVING NO NON-CLASS BENEFIT for 18 flipping levels and then being a level ahead is too powerful. As for exp to charisma benefitting bards, paladins and sorcerers, I am perfectly happy with that. Giving a small boost to that group of classes will not imbalance the game. I mean really. What would you rather have +3% experience earned, or +1 AC, +1 reflex saves, +1 initiative, +1 ranged attack rolls? What would you rather have +3% experience earned or +1 will saves? What would you rather have +3% experience earned or +1 fortitude saves and +1 hit points per level? Is it that bad people? Tony
God of Slivers 03-01-05, 09:32 PM	Slivers, what type of in-game rationale would you create for your players for the charisma XP bump? Just curious. -mike the amazing muskrat Charisma is the mental version of strength, therfore a person with higher cha is mentally stronger. Additionally, the only thing that seperates an object and a creature is a cha score. This implies that charisma is like the soul of a person, a higher cha means a stronger soul. XP is the measure of the strength of your soul, thats why level loss sucks xp, its a direct attack on your soul. Thats why when you make a magic item it costs xp, you put a little bit of your life force in the item. I figured cha might make sense to mod your cha.
God of Slivers 03-01-05, 09:35 PM	Thank you Tony111. I see I'm not alone in the "This doesn't destroy the world" camp.
Tony111 03-01-05, 09:40 PM	Thank you Tony111. I see I'm not alone in the "This doesn't destroy the world" camp. Please, call me Tony. As far as rationalizing why charisma boosts experience, I would say that charisma represents "force of personality" and those with a great "force of personality" grow with experience faster. Similar to what God of Slivers said. A bonus to experience probably really fits in wisdom or intelligence but it isn't too hard to rationalize it into charisma so game balance purposes. Tony
Dartak 03-01-05, 09:51 PM	In Boulders gate 2 for the ps2, they give a very similar effect for wisdom. ( yes i relize that the game is not the same as dnd. so please dont stop reading at that.) so obviusly someone realized that giving a small bonus isnt going to effect the game that horribly. I didnt notice a effect till I decided to completly cheat at it and get about a 40 cha. but that is a diffrent story. anyways, I think that this is a great idea. only im considering using the 3% variant that tony111 suggested. also, if you think this will unbalance your game in favor of people who have a better charisma in game than people who actualy can role play, then dont give the high charisma char as much role playing xp.
HailSpork 03-01-05, 09:52 PM	In 2nd ed (which BG2 was), you get bonus XP if your class attributes were above a certain level. Are you sure that's not what happened? What class did you get that bonus in?
Dartak 03-01-05, 10:15 PM	yes because the newest one, on playstation 2, was done for 3rd ed, and was listed under the benifits of wis. no matter what your class was.
MikeTheAmazingMuskrat 03-01-05, 10:25 PM	Charisma is the mental version of strength, therfore a person with higher cha is mentally stronger. Additionally, the only thing that seperates an object and a creature is a cha score. This implies that charisma is like the soul of a person, a higher cha means a stronger soul. XP is the measure of the strength of your soul, thats why level loss sucks xp, its a direct attack on your soul. Thats why when you make a magic item it costs xp, you put a little bit of your life force in the item. I figured cha might make sense to mod your cha. Ok, as a player I could buy that. I'd have to reshape my world-view a little bit, but it'd work. Really, my only issue is maintaining suspension of disbelief; players (or at least my players) tend to bawk at things that just don't seem to make any sense. If you can explain it, sweet. I don't think it's unbalanced. If you think charisma is a weak stat, then this is a fix. A few points that pop into my head: a) Characters that require CHA will probably put their high stat into CHA, regardless. Your average bard, paladin and sorcerer will level quicker than the other classes, because CHA factors heavily into their build. b) Given that, do you think these classes deserve to level quicker, on average, than the others? c) Some races have a lower CHA. The hit to XP might have some interesting effects if applied to racial cultures, civilizations, etc. d) With that in mind, it makes playing low CHA races burdensome. Is a -2% to XP enough to make people just outright not play a race? Probably not, but something to consider. -mike the amazing muskrat
Tony111 03-02-05, 05:14 PM	Dear Amazing Muskrat: You concerns are well founded, however, remember the underlining math. Given that I have an 18 is charisma, and given that you have a 10 in charisma, it will take an entire EIGHTEEN FLIPPING LEVELS before I am even one level ahead of you. So we do not have a case here where paladins, bards, and sorcerers are significantly ahead of anyone else. Instead, it may allow them to craft a few items or somesuch. Likewise, -3% experience is not going to deter many people from playing a dwarf. Furthermore, we cannot even conclude that classes that need charisma will put their highest stat into charisma. Suppose you are a paladin with one 16 and one 14, considering which to put into strength and which to put into charisma. The tradeoff remains the same: another +3% experience vs another +1 to attack and damage and tripping and etc. Tony
Nedlum 03-03-05, 01:06 PM	Are you sure you aren't thinking of Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, which from my understanding is a hack-and-slash psudo-RPG in the genre of Diablo, rather than any actuall attempt to be a Dungeons and Dragons 3.0 game?
Antioch 03-06-05, 06:26 PM	Interesting house rule, and it doesnt seem horribly unbalancing. Gives me reason to take a higher Cha as an item crafter so I can use that bonus XP to make items and not lag behind. ^_^