Checking my math on LA buyoff [Archive] - Wizards Community

Checking my math on LA buyoff [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MetalGemini
10-17-04, 10:47 AM Just thought I would post this to double check the experience point for this character.

I'm making a character with 10,000 XP (ECL 5). I picked the Poison Dusk Lizard (MM3) for a race and would like to use the LA buyoff. So, to buy off the LA +1, it costs 3,000 XP instead of going to ECL 4, correct? So instead of being at 10,000 XP ECL 5, my Lizard monk 4 would have 7,000 XP and be ECL 4 after the LA buyoff.

Hopefully this makes sense. Thanks for any help.
Knucklehead
10-17-04, 12:23 PM I'm not an expert, but with only a LA of +1 you should only have to spend 1,000 XP.

Basically with a +1 LA you start at level 1 instead of 0. When you pick up a class level you have to have enough XP to be second level. One level to acount for the LA and another level to get first level in a class. This means you need 1,000 before you even begin to play. It's like the DM is spotting you 1,000 XP. You only need to spend 1,000 to buy off a +1 LA. The higher the LA the higher the cost. When you accumulate 1,000 extra XP, spend it to pay off you "debt."

Like I said in the beginning, I'm not an expert and I don't own Unearthed Arcana. If there is something I'm missing please let me know. I'll be playing a goliath in the next campaign and the method above is how I plan to buy off the +1 LA.
jagggar
10-17-04, 02:35 PM By the book, a +5 LA doesn't start being bought off until 15th level. (LA x 3)

I'll hunt down the alternative rules someone made based on the UA version.
MetalGemini
10-17-04, 03:04 PM Maybe I wasn't clear. The character only has a +1 LA. But he has 4 levels in monk. We're assuming I did the buy-off at the appropriate level (3, I believe) and subracting the amount I paid in XP from the 10,000 that a normal 5th level character would have.
jagggar
10-17-04, 03:53 PM Okay then. You're starting at 5th leve and have a +1 LA.

*gets out calculator* Will edit when I have it figured.

Actually, looks like you pay 2000 XP. You pay (Current ELC - 1) x 1000. Reduced at third level, that'd be:

(3 - 1) x 1000
2 x 1000
2000

Leaving you with 8000 XP.
Knucklehead
10-17-04, 04:06 PM I still don't get it. Shouldn't an LA +1 cost 1,000 XP?
jagggar
10-17-04, 04:39 PM Best explination I've seen of how to figure out what level you buyoff LA is on this post.

How much XP you spend is (Current ELC - 1) x 1000. You must spend it as soon as you reach the level at which you reduce LA.
gbnogkfs
10-17-04, 10:12 PM I don't know how this Poison Dusk Lizard works: let's assume it's a 0 HD, +1 LA race

having LA +1, you can buy it off when you reach 3rd class level (ECL 4)

when you get to 3rd class level (ECL 4) you will have 6,000 XP: at this point you spend 3,000 XPs (ECL-1 times 1,000) to buy off your +1 to LA, ending with 3,000 XP total and dropping to ECL 3.

If you want to create a "ECL 5" character, you should subtract from the normal 10,000 XPs of a ECL 5 character the XPs used to buy off the LA (3,000 in this case for a 0 HD +1 LA race): the result is NOT a ECL 5 character, but merely one that has received through his/her career the same amount of experience of a standard race 5th level character (and should be of comparable power)

NOTE - the creation of high level characters with built-in LA buyoff like the one described above gives a character with slightly less XPs than a character who has actually been played since 1st level, due to the different personal XP awards between different ECL characters (immediately after the buyoff the character accumulates more experience than his/her fellow adventurers who did not buy off levels, which partially recompensate the loss of XPs)
jagggar
10-17-04, 11:15 PM :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Blah. I feel like an idiot. . . Thank you for correcting me.

On the other hand, I think I finally understand all the rules for it.
Ualaa
10-21-04, 07:07 PM Unearthed Arcana says, a +1 LA race needs three class levels (not including racial HD) before being eligible for reduction.

Each time the character reduces his/her LA (in this case just once), the character must pay exp equal to (his/her current ECL-1) times 1000.

Thus we have 1 Racial Hit Dice (which is replaced by the first class level, as is the case for all 1 HD creatures who take classes), plus 1 Level Adjustment, plus 2 additional class levels, for a total of 4 ECL. Doing the math, 4-1 = 3 x 1000 = 3,000 EXP.

In effect, after attaining third level monk, the characters next 3,000 exp went to paying off the LA+1 debt. Once the 3,000 EXP is spent, the character becomes an ECL 3 (3 class levels only) instead of ECL 4 character (3 levels + 1 LA).

Due to the nature of the CR/Exp system, a lower level character will eventually catch up (in terms of levels) to a higher level character, while remaining somewhat behind in total experience. This is partly due to a CR 4 monster providing 1200 EXP to the 4th level characters (ECL 4) in the group and 1350 EXP to your ECL 3 character who no longer has a +1 LA.

It is also noted in the DMG, a character who is more then three (read: 4 or more) levels behind the party average, will likely perish regularly and thus lose levels to Raise Deads thus increasing the level disparity and their inversely proportional ability to contribute.
gbnogkfs
10-22-04, 12:34 AM Unearthed Arcana says, a +1 LA race needs three class levels (not including racial HD) before being eligible for reduction.

Each time the character reduces his/her LA (in this case just once), the character must pay exp equal to (his/her current ECL-1) times 1000.

Thus we have 1 Racial Hit Dice (which is replaced by the first class level, as is the case for all 1 HD creatures who take classes), plus 1 Level Adjustment, plus 2 additional class levels, for a total of 4 ECL. Doing the math, 4-1 = 3 x 1000 = 3,000 EXP.

In effect, after attaining third level monk, the characters next 3,000 exp went to paying off the LA+1 debt. Once the 3,000 EXP is spent, the character becomes an ECL 3 (3 class levels only) instead of ECL 4 character (3 levels + 1 LA).

Due to the nature of the CR/Exp system, a lower level character will eventually catch up (in terms of levels) to a higher level character, while remaining somewhat behind in total experience. This is partly due to a CR 4 monster providing 1200 EXP to the 4th level characters (ECL 4) in the group and 1350 EXP to your ECL 3 character who no longer has a +1 LA.

pretty the same the other guy above said... :rolleyes:
markhaus
10-22-04, 07:03 AM Yes, 7000 xp and level 4 w/o any LA
flamefist drunkenmonk
10-29-04, 11:33 PM do you exchange exp for an LA when your class levels are equal to the level it asks.. or when ur ECL is what it asks
Example... you have a + 2 LA
would you pay first when you have 4 class levels (making your ECL 6) or when you have 6 class levels (making your ECL 8)?
gbnogkfs
10-30-04, 03:49 AM 6 class levels
flamefist drunkenmonk
10-30-04, 09:08 AM ok thanks a lot =)

so id have to spend 7000 exp at level 8(class level 6) and then spend 9000 exp at level 10(class level 9) ?
gbnogkfs
10-30-04, 10:11 PM so id have to spend 7000 exp at level 8(class level 6) and then spend 9000 exp at level 10(class level 9) ?

right ;)

just to make things a little harder, I would mention that even racial HDs do not count: only class HDs (class levels)
flamefist drunkenmonk
10-30-04, 10:26 PM nope no class levels... i took the winged template... but its good to know for later thanks :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MetalGemini 10-17-04, 10:47 AM	Just thought I would post this to double check the experience point for this character. I'm making a character with 10,000 XP (ECL 5). I picked the Poison Dusk Lizard (MM3) for a race and would like to use the LA buyoff. So, to buy off the LA +1, it costs 3,000 XP instead of going to ECL 4, correct? So instead of being at 10,000 XP ECL 5, my Lizard monk 4 would have 7,000 XP and be ECL 4 after the LA buyoff. Hopefully this makes sense. Thanks for any help.
Knucklehead 10-17-04, 12:23 PM	I'm not an expert, but with only a LA of +1 you should only have to spend 1,000 XP. Basically with a +1 LA you start at level 1 instead of 0. When you pick up a class level you have to have enough XP to be second level. One level to acount for the LA and another level to get first level in a class. This means you need 1,000 before you even begin to play. It's like the DM is spotting you 1,000 XP. You only need to spend 1,000 to buy off a +1 LA. The higher the LA the higher the cost. When you accumulate 1,000 extra XP, spend it to pay off you "debt." Like I said in the beginning, I'm not an expert and I don't own Unearthed Arcana. If there is something I'm missing please let me know. I'll be playing a goliath in the next campaign and the method above is how I plan to buy off the +1 LA.
jagggar 10-17-04, 02:35 PM	By the book, a +5 LA doesn't start being bought off until 15th level. (LA x 3) I'll hunt down the alternative rules someone made based on the UA version.
MetalGemini 10-17-04, 03:04 PM	Maybe I wasn't clear. The character only has a +1 LA. But he has 4 levels in monk. We're assuming I did the buy-off at the appropriate level (3, I believe) and subracting the amount I paid in XP from the 10,000 that a normal 5th level character would have.
jagggar 10-17-04, 03:53 PM	Okay then. You're starting at 5th leve and have a +1 LA. gets out calculator Will edit when I have it figured. Actually, looks like you pay 2000 XP. You pay (Current ELC - 1) x 1000. Reduced at third level, that'd be: (3 - 1) x 1000 2 x 1000 2000 Leaving you with 8000 XP.
Knucklehead 10-17-04, 04:06 PM	I still don't get it. Shouldn't an LA +1 cost 1,000 XP?
jagggar 10-17-04, 04:39 PM	Best explination I've seen of how to figure out what level you buyoff LA is on this post. How much XP you spend is (Current ELC - 1) x 1000. You must spend it as soon as you reach the level at which you reduce LA.
gbnogkfs 10-17-04, 10:12 PM	I don't know how this Poison Dusk Lizard works: let's assume it's a 0 HD, +1 LA race having LA +1, you can buy it off when you reach 3rd class level (ECL 4) when you get to 3rd class level (ECL 4) you will have 6,000 XP: at this point you spend 3,000 XPs (ECL-1 times 1,000) to buy off your +1 to LA, ending with 3,000 XP total and dropping to ECL 3. If you want to create a "ECL 5" character, you should subtract from the normal 10,000 XPs of a ECL 5 character the XPs used to buy off the LA (3,000 in this case for a 0 HD +1 LA race): the result is NOT a ECL 5 character, but merely one that has received through his/her career the same amount of experience of a standard race 5th level character (and should be of comparable power) NOTE - the creation of high level characters with built-in LA buyoff like the one described above gives a character with slightly less XPs than a character who has actually been played since 1st level, due to the different personal XP awards between different ECL characters (immediately after the buyoff the character accumulates more experience than his/her fellow adventurers who did not buy off levels, which partially recompensate the loss of XPs)
jagggar 10-17-04, 11:15 PM	:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Blah. I feel like an idiot. . . Thank you for correcting me. On the other hand, I think I finally understand all the rules for it.
Ualaa 10-21-04, 07:07 PM	Unearthed Arcana says, a +1 LA race needs three class levels (not including racial HD) before being eligible for reduction. Each time the character reduces his/her LA (in this case just once), the character must pay exp equal to (his/her current ECL-1) times 1000. Thus we have 1 Racial Hit Dice (which is replaced by the first class level, as is the case for all 1 HD creatures who take classes), plus 1 Level Adjustment, plus 2 additional class levels, for a total of 4 ECL. Doing the math, 4-1 = 3 x 1000 = 3,000 EXP. In effect, after attaining third level monk, the characters next 3,000 exp went to paying off the LA+1 debt. Once the 3,000 EXP is spent, the character becomes an ECL 3 (3 class levels only) instead of ECL 4 character (3 levels + 1 LA). Due to the nature of the CR/Exp system, a lower level character will eventually catch up (in terms of levels) to a higher level character, while remaining somewhat behind in total experience. This is partly due to a CR 4 monster providing 1200 EXP to the 4th level characters (ECL 4) in the group and 1350 EXP to your ECL 3 character who no longer has a +1 LA. It is also noted in the DMG, a character who is more then three (read: 4 or more) levels behind the party average, will likely perish regularly and thus lose levels to Raise Deads thus increasing the level disparity and their inversely proportional ability to contribute.
gbnogkfs 10-22-04, 12:34 AM	Unearthed Arcana says, a +1 LA race needs three class levels (not including racial HD) before being eligible for reduction. Each time the character reduces his/her LA (in this case just once), the character must pay exp equal to (his/her current ECL-1) times 1000. Thus we have 1 Racial Hit Dice (which is replaced by the first class level, as is the case for all 1 HD creatures who take classes), plus 1 Level Adjustment, plus 2 additional class levels, for a total of 4 ECL. Doing the math, 4-1 = 3 x 1000 = 3,000 EXP. In effect, after attaining third level monk, the characters next 3,000 exp went to paying off the LA+1 debt. Once the 3,000 EXP is spent, the character becomes an ECL 3 (3 class levels only) instead of ECL 4 character (3 levels + 1 LA). Due to the nature of the CR/Exp system, a lower level character will eventually catch up (in terms of levels) to a higher level character, while remaining somewhat behind in total experience. This is partly due to a CR 4 monster providing 1200 EXP to the 4th level characters (ECL 4) in the group and 1350 EXP to your ECL 3 character who no longer has a +1 LA. pretty the same the other guy above said... :rolleyes:
markhaus 10-22-04, 07:03 AM	Yes, 7000 xp and level 4 w/o any LA
flamefist drunkenmonk 10-29-04, 11:33 PM	do you exchange exp for an LA when your class levels are equal to the level it asks.. or when ur ECL is what it asks Example... you have a + 2 LA would you pay first when you have 4 class levels (making your ECL 6) or when you have 6 class levels (making your ECL 8)?
gbnogkfs 10-30-04, 03:49 AM	6 class levels
flamefist drunkenmonk 10-30-04, 09:08 AM	ok thanks a lot =) so id have to spend 7000 exp at level 8(class level 6) and then spend 9000 exp at level 10(class level 9) ?
gbnogkfs 10-30-04, 10:11 PM	so id have to spend 7000 exp at level 8(class level 6) and then spend 9000 exp at level 10(class level 9) ? right ;) just to make things a little harder, I would mention that even racial HDs do not count: only class HDs (class levels)
flamefist drunkenmonk 10-30-04, 10:26 PM	nope no class levels... i took the winged template... but its good to know for later thanks :D