Class Skill Choices [Archive] - Wizards Community

Class Skill Choices [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darth Sephiroth
05-16-06, 07:52 AM When I've run games I keep on getting players asking me if they can swap skills between class and cross-class. How unbalancing would it be to just to let them upon taking a level in a class designate a number of skills as class skills equal to the number of class skills the class is listed with?
Vapthorne
05-16-06, 09:15 AM I don't think it'll be that overbalanced. The Generic Classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm) lets character pick and choose; and PC are still limited by the skill points. The only thing you might want to keep in mind is some choices could allow characters to enter a PrC sooner than expected, or maybe enter a PrC that was meant for multiclassing with a single build class.
Platonix
05-16-06, 11:44 AM It would make the entire concept of class skills a joke, wouldn't it? How many classes have so few class skills that your players couldn't just say "this level, I'll put skill points in this, this, this, this and this...and they're all class skills"?
Vapthorne
05-16-06, 12:36 PM It would make the entire concept of class skills a joke, wouldn't it? How many classes have so few class skills that your players couldn't just say "this level, I'll put skill points in this, this, this, this and this...and they're all class skills"?

I disagree, if Sephiroth's system is going to work anything like UA's generic class system then a PC can only decide which skills are going to be class skills at first level. Unless he multiclasses, that list cannot change.
Adam Smite
05-16-06, 12:49 PM Somehow, I think he was asking "Who is going to have so many skill points available that they can't spend them on existing class skills?"
Darth Sephiroth
05-16-06, 03:40 PM That comes up occasionally anyway with some classes and not so often with others. But I was only talking about determining them at 1st level. It's like why would someone have the Swim skill as a class skill if he was raised in a desert. Or survival for a city boy.
Chris Crouch
05-17-06, 03:07 AM I don't think that it'd be unbalanced at all. In fact, I've been tempted to get rid of the whole class/cross-class thing and let any character spend their skill points on any skill.

The only possible sticking point would be to make sure that the rogue doesn't get overshadowed - there probably needs to be some niche protection in disarming traps, so I'd probably extened the Trapfinding ability to cover disarming too.

Chris
Khementari
05-18-06, 07:19 PM I have always wanted more freedom in the skill area for my players and after seeing Iron Heroes I've decided to work my own magic in the skill area. Without consulting the PHB I though long and hard about the roles for each class and what skills would be absolutely needed for the class to function the way I felt it should. So I picked a number of skills for each class and labeled them class skills. These skills are equal to class level. A character gets skill points that he can distribute among any skills freely, but still adhering to the limit of level+3 for maximum rank. There are no cross-class skills and you may improve your class skills by up to 3 ranks just like other skills.

The trick is figuring out how many points to distrubute to each class and still have everyone happy.
Nani?
05-19-06, 02:27 AM I've sometimes found that class skill sometimes "don't quite fit" a given character concept. So I don't mind minor changes. On the other hand, people do learn along certain lines and class skills represent that well.

Simple solution:

Replace craft and proffession from all class lists and replace with "Any 2", which must be designated at first level, even if they do not take the skill.

From a RP standpoint, it opens up background possiblities. For Example:

A sorcerer who has voices whispering into her ear, teaching her spells has either Knowledge: Planes or Religion or both.

A fighter or Monk whose fighting ablities came from originally studying dance skills has Performance: Dance and Tumbling.

A Wizard or Cleric was trained at an extemely isolated school and picked up survival under the harsh conditions.

And yes, it can be abused but tell me what can't. This at least, is not too abuseable.

All the Best,

Nani?
SilvercatMoonpaw
05-19-06, 07:32 AM UA has one instance where they take away some of the fighter's starting feats to give it more skill points and class skills. Every time UA changes what skills a class has it does it on a one-for-one basis or by exchanging the choice for some other ability.

I don't think giving a class a choice of a few open skills is all that bad. Look up Szatany's Ultimate Class series on the class board, especially his Ultimate Fighter. Players can choose specilizations for that class and receive certain of their class skills from that choice. This makes the character much more interesting because then fighters are similar to those of the same profession but different from those of other professions. So maybe you could designate "packages" of skills that can be swaped, or just require that the choice is reasonable subject to your final say.
Demonwolf
05-21-06, 11:34 AM Here's a possibility (that I just made up).

Skill Talent (General)

Characters with this feat have talents for picking up or improving skills that match their natural abilities. This feat may only be taken at first level.

Benefit: Choose an ability score. You gain a number of class skills associated with the ability equal to your modifier in that ability, not counting enhancement bonuses. For example, a 1st level human ranger with a dexterity of 18 who takes this feat can choose to gain balance, open lock, tumble and sleight of hand as class skills. The benefit of this feat can be applied to class skills that are associated with a certain ability by virtue of another feat. For example, a 1st level human wizard with 14 dex and 10 str may take the Agile Athlete feat at 1st level in addition to this feat and choose to gain Jump and Climb as class skills.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth Sephiroth 05-16-06, 07:52 AM	When I've run games I keep on getting players asking me if they can swap skills between class and cross-class. How unbalancing would it be to just to let them upon taking a level in a class designate a number of skills as class skills equal to the number of class skills the class is listed with?
Vapthorne 05-16-06, 09:15 AM	I don't think it'll be that overbalanced. The Generic Classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm) lets character pick and choose; and PC are still limited by the skill points. The only thing you might want to keep in mind is some choices could allow characters to enter a PrC sooner than expected, or maybe enter a PrC that was meant for multiclassing with a single build class.
Platonix 05-16-06, 11:44 AM	It would make the entire concept of class skills a joke, wouldn't it? How many classes have so few class skills that your players couldn't just say "this level, I'll put skill points in this, this, this, this and this...and they're all class skills"?
Vapthorne 05-16-06, 12:36 PM	It would make the entire concept of class skills a joke, wouldn't it? How many classes have so few class skills that your players couldn't just say "this level, I'll put skill points in this, this, this, this and this...and they're all class skills"? I disagree, if Sephiroth's system is going to work anything like UA's generic class system then a PC can only decide which skills are going to be class skills at first level. Unless he multiclasses, that list cannot change.
Adam Smite 05-16-06, 12:49 PM	Somehow, I think he was asking "Who is going to have so many skill points available that they can't spend them on existing class skills?"
Darth Sephiroth 05-16-06, 03:40 PM	That comes up occasionally anyway with some classes and not so often with others. But I was only talking about determining them at 1st level. It's like why would someone have the Swim skill as a class skill if he was raised in a desert. Or survival for a city boy.
Chris Crouch 05-17-06, 03:07 AM	I don't think that it'd be unbalanced at all. In fact, I've been tempted to get rid of the whole class/cross-class thing and let any character spend their skill points on any skill. The only possible sticking point would be to make sure that the rogue doesn't get overshadowed - there probably needs to be some niche protection in disarming traps, so I'd probably extened the Trapfinding ability to cover disarming too. Chris
Khementari 05-18-06, 07:19 PM	I have always wanted more freedom in the skill area for my players and after seeing Iron Heroes I've decided to work my own magic in the skill area. Without consulting the PHB I though long and hard about the roles for each class and what skills would be absolutely needed for the class to function the way I felt it should. So I picked a number of skills for each class and labeled them class skills. These skills are equal to class level. A character gets skill points that he can distribute among any skills freely, but still adhering to the limit of level+3 for maximum rank. There are no cross-class skills and you may improve your class skills by up to 3 ranks just like other skills. The trick is figuring out how many points to distrubute to each class and still have everyone happy.
Nani? 05-19-06, 02:27 AM	I've sometimes found that class skill sometimes "don't quite fit" a given character concept. So I don't mind minor changes. On the other hand, people do learn along certain lines and class skills represent that well. Simple solution: Replace craft and proffession from all class lists and replace with "Any 2", which must be designated at first level, even if they do not take the skill. From a RP standpoint, it opens up background possiblities. For Example: A sorcerer who has voices whispering into her ear, teaching her spells has either Knowledge: Planes or Religion or both. A fighter or Monk whose fighting ablities came from originally studying dance skills has Performance: Dance and Tumbling. A Wizard or Cleric was trained at an extemely isolated school and picked up survival under the harsh conditions. And yes, it can be abused but tell me what can't. This at least, is not too abuseable. All the Best, Nani?
SilvercatMoonpaw 05-19-06, 07:32 AM	UA has one instance where they take away some of the fighter's starting feats to give it more skill points and class skills. Every time UA changes what skills a class has it does it on a one-for-one basis or by exchanging the choice for some other ability. I don't think giving a class a choice of a few open skills is all that bad. Look up Szatany's Ultimate Class series on the class board, especially his Ultimate Fighter. Players can choose specilizations for that class and receive certain of their class skills from that choice. This makes the character much more interesting because then fighters are similar to those of the same profession but different from those of other professions. So maybe you could designate "packages" of skills that can be swaped, or just require that the choice is reasonable subject to your final say.
Demonwolf 05-21-06, 11:34 AM	Here's a possibility (that I just made up). Skill Talent (General) Characters with this feat have talents for picking up or improving skills that match their natural abilities. This feat may only be taken at first level. Benefit: Choose an ability score. You gain a number of class skills associated with the ability equal to your modifier in that ability, not counting enhancement bonuses. For example, a 1st level human ranger with a dexterity of 18 who takes this feat can choose to gain balance, open lock, tumble and sleight of hand as class skills. The benefit of this feat can be applied to class skills that are associated with a certain ability by virtue of another feat. For example, a 1st level human wizard with 14 dex and 10 str may take the Agile Athlete feat at 1st level in addition to this feat and choose to gain Jump and Climb as class skills.