Cloistered Cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cloistered Cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Scarlet Knight
02-20-04, 04:44 PM What do people think of the Cloistered Cleric? I haven't bought Unearthed Arcana yet, but I've heard that this class is the more priestly alternative to the core cleric that I've been waiting for. Since the book is Open Content, could someone fill me in on what type of abilities it has?

Of all the material in UA, what I've heard of the cloistered cleric excites me the most!
stilleon
02-20-04, 04:53 PM The cloistered cleric is more knowledge oriented and gets more of those spells (including the knowledge domain automatically regardless of his god and in addition to the domains granted from his god).

The base attack bonuses fall to those of a wizard. Blech/

Basically. he aint that good for a combat oriented campaign, but in a more skill based campaign he could be useful. Good for espionage/detective/city based games.
stone_dog
02-20-04, 05:01 PM I like it alot. This cleric is in much more of a support role for any given game, but is a very nice substitute for a bard as far as magic and knowlege go. It would be a great cohort actually!

As a PC, well I agree that it would be better suited to city based intrigue games, but then again it is slightly more burly than the wizard as far as hit points go (d6's).
TrueExodite
02-20-04, 05:08 PM I consider it utterly broken.

You give up some BAB, minor HP and proficiency benefits and get more spells, skills and abilities for it?

Since the Cleric needs one spell to equal a Fighter in ability and one more to surpass him (Divine Power, Divine Favor) this class essentially gives bonuses for free.

Of course, I nerf the standard Cleric so bad it isn't even funny byt I can easily see this class being even worse.

The one good thing about it would be that since its basic abilities are now closer to the Wizard it's much easier to see how utterly broken the Cleric is in comparison.

IMHO obviously, but you did ask. :)
stone_dog
02-20-04, 05:48 PM You know, I think it is funny that people are all up in arms about the divine favor and divine power and no body brings up dispel magic. That is a side rant though and I am sure there are plenty of other threads dedicated to this "problem."

For the record, the cloistered cleric gets no more spells per day than a normal cleric and the extra abilities are only bardic lore, the knowlege domain and a few divination and intellegence type spells. Certainly they get more skills, but these skills are ( in the concept of the class) going to be blown on knowleges, languages and decipher script skills.

I hardly think that it is broken to have a cleric that sucks at fighting but is a font of knowlege and wisdom.
ruleslawyer
02-20-04, 06:43 PM Moreover, divine power is hardly a help when you're a bookworm with d6 hit dice and no weapon or armor profs worth speaking of.
Azure Knight
02-20-04, 07:09 PM Cloistered clerics get simple weapons, just like standard clerics. Spears may only be simple weapons, but they're still pretty solid.

You're right about being hurt defensively, though. They give up an average of one hit point per level, and they can only wear light armor.
Romulus LoneWolf
02-20-04, 08:11 PM I like the Cloistered Cleric.. It's a nice contrast to the militaristic Cleric, with more of a focus on gathering information (and using it) rather then on fighting heretics. In short, a Jesuit to contrast with the classic Cleric's Templar..

I'm definetly using the Cloistered Cleric, if only to fill out the administrative ranks within my campaign's religions.. After all, Churches are staffed by more then warrior priests...
Mongoose4937
02-21-04, 09:01 PM Besides, divine power/righetous might does not make a cleric surpass a fighter, by any stretch of the imagination. You don't get any good combat maneuvers for it beyond "walk up and hit things". It's a temporary bonus, and you need time to use it. Those two rounds you've spent casting your spells are two rounds your fighter buddy has had to trip/grapple/pound on whatever you're fighting. If you've actually played the game, you'll know what two rounds can do for you. Also, compare with what the arcane casters get at the same spell level:

For 4th level spells:
Stoneskin
Solid Fog
Scrying
Greater Invisibility
Phantasmal Killer
Enervation
Polymorph

And 5th:
Teleport
Dominate Person
Wall of Force
Shadow Evocation
Baleful Polymorph
Transmute rock to mud/mud to rock
Permanency

If you're wondering about the versitility or usefulness of any of these spells, the majority surpass the divine counterpart everyone keeps complaining about. Need to get away from a monster or hold it at bay while everyone buffs? Wall of force. Need to get away real quick like, Teleport. Need a spell to deal damage and get through an energy resistance you weren't expecting? shadow Evocation. the list goes on.
Scarlet Knight
02-23-04, 12:55 PM I'm guessing that cloistered clerics lose shield proficiency and good Fortitude saves as well? It seems like they have to sacrifice a lot just for the Knowledge domain and better skills.

The class still looks very interesting though. Can't wait to get UA!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Scarlet Knight 02-20-04, 04:44 PM	What do people think of the Cloistered Cleric? I haven't bought Unearthed Arcana yet, but I've heard that this class is the more priestly alternative to the core cleric that I've been waiting for. Since the book is Open Content, could someone fill me in on what type of abilities it has? Of all the material in UA, what I've heard of the cloistered cleric excites me the most!
stilleon 02-20-04, 04:53 PM	The cloistered cleric is more knowledge oriented and gets more of those spells (including the knowledge domain automatically regardless of his god and in addition to the domains granted from his god). The base attack bonuses fall to those of a wizard. Blech/ Basically. he aint that good for a combat oriented campaign, but in a more skill based campaign he could be useful. Good for espionage/detective/city based games.
stone_dog 02-20-04, 05:01 PM	I like it alot. This cleric is in much more of a support role for any given game, but is a very nice substitute for a bard as far as magic and knowlege go. It would be a great cohort actually! As a PC, well I agree that it would be better suited to city based intrigue games, but then again it is slightly more burly than the wizard as far as hit points go (d6's).
TrueExodite 02-20-04, 05:08 PM	I consider it utterly broken. You give up some BAB, minor HP and proficiency benefits and get more spells, skills and abilities for it? Since the Cleric needs one spell to equal a Fighter in ability and one more to surpass him (Divine Power, Divine Favor) this class essentially gives bonuses for free. Of course, I nerf the standard Cleric so bad it isn't even funny byt I can easily see this class being even worse. The one good thing about it would be that since its basic abilities are now closer to the Wizard it's much easier to see how utterly broken the Cleric is in comparison. IMHO obviously, but you did ask. :)
stone_dog 02-20-04, 05:48 PM	You know, I think it is funny that people are all up in arms about the divine favor and divine power and no body brings up dispel magic. That is a side rant though and I am sure there are plenty of other threads dedicated to this "problem." For the record, the cloistered cleric gets no more spells per day than a normal cleric and the extra abilities are only bardic lore, the knowlege domain and a few divination and intellegence type spells. Certainly they get more skills, but these skills are ( in the concept of the class) going to be blown on knowleges, languages and decipher script skills. I hardly think that it is broken to have a cleric that sucks at fighting but is a font of knowlege and wisdom.
ruleslawyer 02-20-04, 06:43 PM	Moreover, divine power is hardly a help when you're a bookworm with d6 hit dice and no weapon or armor profs worth speaking of.
Azure Knight 02-20-04, 07:09 PM	Cloistered clerics get simple weapons, just like standard clerics. Spears may only be simple weapons, but they're still pretty solid. You're right about being hurt defensively, though. They give up an average of one hit point per level, and they can only wear light armor.
Romulus LoneWolf 02-20-04, 08:11 PM	I like the Cloistered Cleric.. It's a nice contrast to the militaristic Cleric, with more of a focus on gathering information (and using it) rather then on fighting heretics. In short, a Jesuit to contrast with the classic Cleric's Templar.. I'm definetly using the Cloistered Cleric, if only to fill out the administrative ranks within my campaign's religions.. After all, Churches are staffed by more then warrior priests...
Mongoose4937 02-21-04, 09:01 PM	Besides, divine power/righetous might does not make a cleric surpass a fighter, by any stretch of the imagination. You don't get any good combat maneuvers for it beyond "walk up and hit things". It's a temporary bonus, and you need time to use it. Those two rounds you've spent casting your spells are two rounds your fighter buddy has had to trip/grapple/pound on whatever you're fighting. If you've actually played the game, you'll know what two rounds can do for you. Also, compare with what the arcane casters get at the same spell level: For 4th level spells: Stoneskin Solid Fog Scrying Greater Invisibility Phantasmal Killer Enervation Polymorph And 5th: Teleport Dominate Person Wall of Force Shadow Evocation Baleful Polymorph Transmute rock to mud/mud to rock Permanency If you're wondering about the versitility or usefulness of any of these spells, the majority surpass the divine counterpart everyone keeps complaining about. Need to get away from a monster or hold it at bay while everyone buffs? Wall of force. Need to get away real quick like, Teleport. Need a spell to deal damage and get through an energy resistance you weren't expecting? shadow Evocation. the list goes on.
Scarlet Knight 02-23-04, 12:55 PM	I'm guessing that cloistered clerics lose shield proficiency and good Fortitude saves as well? It seems like they have to sacrifice a lot just for the Knowledge domain and better skills. The class still looks very interesting though. Can't wait to get UA!