Comparative Strength of Gestalt Characters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Comparative Strength of Gestalt Characters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ikeren
03-06-06, 08:07 PM Hiya. I've had an idea for a campaign recently. It involves a number of different parties racing into a dungeon on a quest, trying to reach the goal first. Parties would be of 4 players.

My next idea, is what if people couldn't organize into groups of 4 very well? Or if I only could find a handful of people interested in playing?

How would gestalt characters mix?

Would a party with two gestalt characters be of equivilent strength to a party with four characters? Weaker? Stronger? The party starting gold is 1000ish, and the starting stats for each party are 4*5d6, 16*4d6, and 4*3d6. I think I'd let the gestalt characters make all 24 rolls and pick the 12 best.

What problems would I see? Would 2 gestalt characters balance 4 normal ones?

Let's go basic examples for now:
Gestalt Fighter/Cleric
Gestalt Rogue/Wizard

in comparison against a party of: Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard.

The gestalt characters would have higher stats and slightly better gear. They would have more choices of what to do each round.
On the other hand, the other party would have twice the actions available.

So...how would it balance out?
Polaris
03-07-06, 01:40 AM In general no. That's because four characters will get four actions per round while two gestalt characters still only get two. In addition, you are stuck with the best hit-dice and saves locked into two characters while the four normal characters will have more hit points distributed over more targets.

In addition to that, the normal party will have double the wealth of the gestalt party.

Given these factors the normal fighter, wizard, rogue, cleric party should beat the Gestalt Fighter/Cleric, Gestalt Wizard/Rogue party.

It is my experience that Gestalt characters are about 1.5 times as effective as a normal character of the same level, but that varies depending on build.

-Polaris
Lina_Inverse
03-07-06, 05:43 AM A gestalt charecter is aproximately 50% stronger than his non-gestalt brother assumeing the same equipment. Thats is equal to a +1ECL.

3 charecters are the equivalent of 2 gestalt charecters.

So with 2 gestalts, build your adventures for 3 PCs and youll be fine.
Ikeren
03-07-06, 06:53 PM The campaign I plan to run is going to be a bit off the wall. So far the rules are as follows:

Starting Level: 1. Starting Exp: 56 points. If you can tell me why I chose the number 56 in a secret message or PM, I’ll bump it up to 75.
No LA races, but you can use LA adjustment levels/racial substitution levels/transitional class levels, and all that jazz). All classes/races are good otherwise (if from anything but DMG/SRD/PHB, you’ll need to send me a PM with class information explaining your character. I will take any sources, though.)
Psionics will be allowed. They will be transparent and interact with magic.
Teams will be 1-4 players. You get to decided if you want to go solo or not.
Team Starting Gold: 1000 gp. If you are a single player, you get it all. If you are 2-4 players, you decide what to do with it as you see fit. Crafting and metamagic item creation (scrolls only, obviously) are both options. If you create scrolls, you will start the game with less exp then any of your party members.
You will get bonus gold: 100 gp for every ______ class on your team. The blanks are:
Bard, Monk, Paladin, Ranger.
You will also get bonus gold: 250 gp for every # of party members you have less then four.

Max 1/3rd on any item. However, keep in mind that crafted items cost 1/3rd (assuming you never roll 5 below the craft DC). That is...if somebody in the party is willing to blow the skill points that will likely prove marginally useful in the future...
Team starting abilities: 4 * 5d6 drop two, 16 * 4d6 drop 1, and 4 * 3d6.
This means that you get 4 elite stats for your entire team, 16 normal ones, and 4 sub par ones. A single player makes all 24 of those rolls and chooses the best. Two players do the same. Three, the same. Four players do not get any choice - they must use all 4 3d6 rolls. How they place them, is their choice. One player could get all four. Maybe a 3d6 rolls an 18 and you are lucky Who knows?
Teams can choose to allocate the ability mods as they wish. There will be no rerolling.

One person can play up to two characters. They must both be well roleplayed however ; a blind deaf mute as your second character will get killed and annoy me a lot.

Gestalt characters are acceptable: they take the place of two characters in a normal party. When it comes to bonus gold, you count them as two characters. You can’t get the 100 gp class bonus gp if one of your characters is gestalt. Parties can be half gestalt and half not: 1 gestalt character, 2 normal characters, or 1 gestalt and 1 normal character, or 2 gestalt characters. The combinations and possibilities are limitless.

Do you have any comments for the integration of gestalt characters? Sure, it'd be sacrificing a bit of power - but it'd be a different style of play, you could do it yourself (solo playing 2 characters, which in theory, could speed your progress through the game).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ikeren 03-06-06, 08:07 PM	Hiya. I've had an idea for a campaign recently. It involves a number of different parties racing into a dungeon on a quest, trying to reach the goal first. Parties would be of 4 players. My next idea, is what if people couldn't organize into groups of 4 very well? Or if I only could find a handful of people interested in playing? How would gestalt characters mix? Would a party with two gestalt characters be of equivilent strength to a party with four characters? Weaker? Stronger? The party starting gold is 1000ish, and the starting stats for each party are 45d6, 164d6, and 4*3d6. I think I'd let the gestalt characters make all 24 rolls and pick the 12 best. What problems would I see? Would 2 gestalt characters balance 4 normal ones? Let's go basic examples for now: Gestalt Fighter/Cleric Gestalt Rogue/Wizard in comparison against a party of: Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard. The gestalt characters would have higher stats and slightly better gear. They would have more choices of what to do each round. On the other hand, the other party would have twice the actions available. So...how would it balance out?
Polaris 03-07-06, 01:40 AM	In general no. That's because four characters will get four actions per round while two gestalt characters still only get two. In addition, you are stuck with the best hit-dice and saves locked into two characters while the four normal characters will have more hit points distributed over more targets. In addition to that, the normal party will have double the wealth of the gestalt party. Given these factors the normal fighter, wizard, rogue, cleric party should beat the Gestalt Fighter/Cleric, Gestalt Wizard/Rogue party. It is my experience that Gestalt characters are about 1.5 times as effective as a normal character of the same level, but that varies depending on build. -Polaris
Lina_Inverse 03-07-06, 05:43 AM	A gestalt charecter is aproximately 50% stronger than his non-gestalt brother assumeing the same equipment. Thats is equal to a +1ECL. 3 charecters are the equivalent of 2 gestalt charecters. So with 2 gestalts, build your adventures for 3 PCs and youll be fine.
Ikeren 03-07-06, 06:53 PM	The campaign I plan to run is going to be a bit off the wall. So far the rules are as follows: Starting Level: 1. Starting Exp: 56 points. If you can tell me why I chose the number 56 in a secret message or PM, I’ll bump it up to 75. No LA races, but you can use LA adjustment levels/racial substitution levels/transitional class levels, and all that jazz). All classes/races are good otherwise (if from anything but DMG/SRD/PHB, you’ll need to send me a PM with class information explaining your character. I will take any sources, though.) Psionics will be allowed. They will be transparent and interact with magic. Teams will be 1-4 players. You get to decided if you want to go solo or not. Team Starting Gold: 1000 gp. If you are a single player, you get it all. If you are 2-4 players, you decide what to do with it as you see fit. Crafting and metamagic item creation (scrolls only, obviously) are both options. If you create scrolls, you will start the game with less exp then any of your party members. You will get bonus gold: 100 gp for every ______ class on your team. The blanks are: Bard, Monk, Paladin, Ranger. You will also get bonus gold: 250 gp for every # of party members you have less then four. Max 1/3rd on any item. However, keep in mind that crafted items cost 1/3rd (assuming you never roll 5 below the craft DC). That is...if somebody in the party is willing to blow the skill points that will likely prove marginally useful in the future... Team starting abilities: 4 * 5d6 drop two, 16 * 4d6 drop 1, and 4 * 3d6. This means that you get 4 elite stats for your entire team, 16 normal ones, and 4 sub par ones. A single player makes all 24 of those rolls and chooses the best. Two players do the same. Three, the same. Four players do not get any choice - they must use all 4 3d6 rolls. How they place them, is their choice. One player could get all four. Maybe a 3d6 rolls an 18 and you are lucky Who knows? Teams can choose to allocate the ability mods as they wish. There will be no rerolling. One person can play up to two characters. They must both be well roleplayed however ; a blind deaf mute as your second character will get killed and annoy me a lot. Gestalt characters are acceptable: they take the place of two characters in a normal party. When it comes to bonus gold, you count them as two characters. You can’t get the 100 gp class bonus gp if one of your characters is gestalt. Parties can be half gestalt and half not: 1 gestalt character, 2 normal characters, or 1 gestalt and 1 normal character, or 2 gestalt characters. The combinations and possibilities are limitless. Do you have any comments for the integration of gestalt characters? Sure, it'd be sacrificing a bit of power - but it'd be a different style of play, you could do it yourself (solo playing 2 characters, which in theory, could speed your progress through the game).