Cost for spell pts system question. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cost for spell pts system question. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
demon666fast
09-25-06, 10:46 PM Why do all magic systems that use spell points, like the psionics and the UA one, use the caster lvl to determine the cost for each spell, and not the spell lvl. I mean, a 3rd lvl costs 5 pts, a 7th lvl costs 13 pts. Why couldn't they cost their lvl instead, 2nd lvl costs 2 pts, 9th lvl costs 9 pts? I know that's probably a balance issue, but I don't undearstand quite well the mechanic's idea.
I'm asking cause everything system I tried to make used the spell lvl as the cost.
thanks.
Tequila_Sunrise
09-26-06, 06:01 PM I've actually been recently wondering the same thing. I'm instinctively drawn to smaller numbers, so cost = spell level just feels so much better.
FeceMan
09-27-06, 04:47 PM The system of augmentation and spellpoint cost would be more difficult to implement if spell cost were based off of spell level. Also, a ninth-level spell should cost significantly more than a first level spell.
demon666fast
09-27-06, 06:01 PM The system of augmentation and spellpoint cost would be more difficult to implement if spell cost were based off of spell level. Also, a ninth-level spell should cost significantly more than a first level spell.

What about not using the augmentation system? Spend spell pts, cast the spell normally at max caster lvl.
Yeah, a 9th lvl spell shoud cost more than just 9 1st lvl spells.... a 9th lvl spell would costs 4,5 2nd lvl spells. In the standard spell point system, the 9th lvl spell costs 5,6 2nd lvl spells, so there is not much of a difference, in that aspect at least.
Waste a 2nd and 7th lvl spell and you get a 9th lvl spell in both systems.
FeceMan
09-27-06, 09:45 PM What about not using the augmentation system? Spend spell pts, cast the spell normally at max caster lvl.
Yeah, a 9th lvl spell shoud cost more than just 9 1st lvl spells.... a 9th lvl spell would costs 4,5 2nd lvl spells. In the standard spell point system, the 9th lvl spell costs 5,6 2nd lvl spells, so there is not much of a difference, in that aspect at least.
Waste a 2nd and 7th lvl spell and you get a 9th lvl spell in both systems.
Um...yeah...

I get the max caster level part, but I'm lost after that.
demon666fast
09-27-06, 11:54 PM Um...yeah...

I get the max caster level part, but I'm lost after that.

heh sorry, what I tried to say is that the cost for a 9th lvl spell in both systems are almost the same, not so different as to hurt game balance.

In my idea, a 9th lvl spell worths 45d4+45 damage (9 magic missiles cast at caster lvl 9)
In standard system a 9th lvl spell worths 17d+17 (17 magic missiles cast at caster lvl 1)
ok thats an idiot example, but what I mean is if lvl=pt cost, a 9th lvl spell worths much more than if caster lvl=pt cost with augmentation system.
I'm not even sure if my logic is right, just a guess.:P
Jerks
09-28-06, 08:05 AM The slightly larger numbers gives for more granularity in the system. Effects that drain spell points (not too many for spells, but expanded psi has plenty of examples) are easier to balance if the spell points gained don't scale as quickly. For example, if you drain 2 spell points from an opponent under present rules you can cast two 1st level spells. Under a 1 for 1 system, you also have the option of firing off a 2nd level spell.

I've seen systems in which the price scales up more drastically precisely for this reason. A first level spell might cost 2 sp, a 2nd level 4, 3rd level 8 and so on. The caster level is sorta a compromise between the two, easier to figure out than exponential growth, but still not one for one.
Xanthanon
09-29-06, 10:44 PM Avoid the whole mathematical issue. Check out http://www.community3e.com/rules.html and find "Spellpoint System 2". It works well for my players keeping track of their spells, so I use it (in a high-magic campaign). It's like having a certain amount of access to each magical energy level (spell level). More than the 3.5 rules permit, but not unreasonable. Spellpoints can't be used to power other level spells. Players feel it puts them on more equal ground with fighter types who can use that sword attack EVERY round if they want.

Happy gaming!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
demon666fast 09-25-06, 10:46 PM	Why do all magic systems that use spell points, like the psionics and the UA one, use the caster lvl to determine the cost for each spell, and not the spell lvl. I mean, a 3rd lvl costs 5 pts, a 7th lvl costs 13 pts. Why couldn't they cost their lvl instead, 2nd lvl costs 2 pts, 9th lvl costs 9 pts? I know that's probably a balance issue, but I don't undearstand quite well the mechanic's idea. I'm asking cause everything system I tried to make used the spell lvl as the cost. thanks.
Tequila_Sunrise 09-26-06, 06:01 PM	I've actually been recently wondering the same thing. I'm instinctively drawn to smaller numbers, so cost = spell level just feels so much better.
FeceMan 09-27-06, 04:47 PM	The system of augmentation and spellpoint cost would be more difficult to implement if spell cost were based off of spell level. Also, a ninth-level spell should cost significantly more than a first level spell.
demon666fast 09-27-06, 06:01 PM	The system of augmentation and spellpoint cost would be more difficult to implement if spell cost were based off of spell level. Also, a ninth-level spell should cost significantly more than a first level spell. What about not using the augmentation system? Spend spell pts, cast the spell normally at max caster lvl. Yeah, a 9th lvl spell shoud cost more than just 9 1st lvl spells.... a 9th lvl spell would costs 4,5 2nd lvl spells. In the standard spell point system, the 9th lvl spell costs 5,6 2nd lvl spells, so there is not much of a difference, in that aspect at least. Waste a 2nd and 7th lvl spell and you get a 9th lvl spell in both systems.
FeceMan 09-27-06, 09:45 PM	What about not using the augmentation system? Spend spell pts, cast the spell normally at max caster lvl. Yeah, a 9th lvl spell shoud cost more than just 9 1st lvl spells.... a 9th lvl spell would costs 4,5 2nd lvl spells. In the standard spell point system, the 9th lvl spell costs 5,6 2nd lvl spells, so there is not much of a difference, in that aspect at least. Waste a 2nd and 7th lvl spell and you get a 9th lvl spell in both systems. Um...yeah... I get the max caster level part, but I'm lost after that.
demon666fast 09-27-06, 11:54 PM	Um...yeah... I get the max caster level part, but I'm lost after that. heh sorry, what I tried to say is that the cost for a 9th lvl spell in both systems are almost the same, not so different as to hurt game balance. In my idea, a 9th lvl spell worths 45d4+45 damage (9 magic missiles cast at caster lvl 9) In standard system a 9th lvl spell worths 17d+17 (17 magic missiles cast at caster lvl 1) ok thats an idiot example, but what I mean is if lvl=pt cost, a 9th lvl spell worths much more than if caster lvl=pt cost with augmentation system. I'm not even sure if my logic is right, just a guess.:P
Jerks 09-28-06, 08:05 AM	The slightly larger numbers gives for more granularity in the system. Effects that drain spell points (not too many for spells, but expanded psi has plenty of examples) are easier to balance if the spell points gained don't scale as quickly. For example, if you drain 2 spell points from an opponent under present rules you can cast two 1st level spells. Under a 1 for 1 system, you also have the option of firing off a 2nd level spell. I've seen systems in which the price scales up more drastically precisely for this reason. A first level spell might cost 2 sp, a 2nd level 4, 3rd level 8 and so on. The caster level is sorta a compromise between the two, easier to figure out than exponential growth, but still not one for one.
Xanthanon 09-29-06, 10:44 PM	Avoid the whole mathematical issue. Check out http://www.community3e.com/rules.html and find "Spellpoint System 2". It works well for my players keeping track of their spells, so I use it (in a high-magic campaign). It's like having a certain amount of access to each magical energy level (spell level). More than the 3.5 rules permit, but not unreasonable. Spellpoints can't be used to power other level spells. Players feel it puts them on more equal ground with fighter types who can use that sword attack EVERY round if they want. Happy gaming!