Post/Author/DateTime	Post
celebrist 10-19-04, 12:44 PM	hey, new to this forum stuff but have dm'd for 25 years. do any of you use crit/clutz rules, i always have and for the first time got flak for it. have any of the other dms used or are still useing it? in the past everyone has loved the excitement it brings to combat. feedback from dms and players alike appreciated
LukiLoki 10-19-04, 05:40 PM	Yes, I use a fumble system of my own designing. Mostly harmless, sometimes debilitating, always fun. :) Yes, you will get flak for it on these boards. Just wait. Main complaint: High BAB/high-level fighters make more attack rolls, and are thus more likely to suffer than poorer fighters. My players don't mind it, but many do.
Fixxxer 10-19-04, 06:13 PM	The biggest ctriticism that critical misses get on these forums is that higher-level PCs are statistically more likely to critically fumble because they roll more attacks per round, thus have more of a chance of rolling a 1. What many of these people fail to realize is that if critical fumbles are balanced the same way as critical hits, this isn't an issue. All rolling a 20 means is that you hit and have a chance to score a critical hit. That's it. Therefore, all rolling a 1 should mean is that you miss and have a chance to critically fumble. Many DMs see you roll a 1 and they feel that justifies them to pull out their sadistic side and begin thinking up evil things to do to your PC. Pretty sad, if you ask me. Basically, once you roll a 20, you still have to roll a confirmation hit you score a critical. It should be the same with fumbles. If you roll a 1, you should have to roll a confirmation (if you miss, you critically fumble).
MortalPlague 10-19-04, 07:57 PM	I use the regular rules for critical hits. However, for critical misses, I require players to roll a one, then roll a second die to confirm it. If the second die turns up a one as well, then they critically miss. I usually accompany a critical miss with something suitably embarrassing, like loosing the grip on your sword and sending it flying across the battlefield, snapping your bowstring, or getting your axe stuck in a tree. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's a big deal.
Kiehtan 10-23-04, 04:27 PM	I use a fumble system, here it is: In the event of a fumble, you automatically lose all remaining attacks until the next round. Additionally, you suffer one of the following. If not using a weapon: roll a d6, otherwise, roll a d10. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1-2. Your attack has put you off balance; you open yourself up to attacks of opportunity attempting to recover. 3-4. You overextend yourself; you are flat-footed until the next round. 5-6. You fall prone. 7-8. Your weapon goes flying; roll 1d8 for direction and 1d6 for distance in 5’ increments. 9-10. Your weapon breaks but is repairable with the appropriate check (craft: weapon smith, craft: bowyer, etc.), e.g., the bowstring breaks, or the hilt loosens from the blade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the result of your dexterity check is a natural 1, roll a second dexterity check. If the result of this check is also a failure, you injure yourself. Roll randomly to determine which body part is injured. This injury is in addition to the above listed effects. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the result of your second dexterity check is also a 1, you fall unconscious in addition to the above listed effects.
Xeviat-DM 10-23-04, 11:06 PM	My fumble system is quite simple, but similar to MP's. If you roll a 1, you've fumbled, and you must roll your attack roll again. If that attack roll misses your opponent's AC, you've critically fumbled. A critical fumble is a miss still, but you provoke an attack of opportunity from all foes who threaten you. Due to the second attack roll, higher level warriors aren't as likely to turn a fumble into a critical fumble.
Stuntman 10-28-04, 07:15 PM	Due to the second attack roll, higher level warriors aren't as likely to turn a fumble into a critical fumble. Due to the fact that higher level warriors get more attacks, they are more likely to get critical fumbles because they get more chances to fumble. Not only that, you severely penalise anyone using combat expertise, improved combat expertise or fight defensively. A level 16 fighter maxing out on combat expertise and fight defensively using a full attack will practically guarantee a critical fumble. This makes no sense whatsoever because the net effect is that you incur more attacks of opportunity when you are trying to defend yourself the most.
Cymraegmorgan 10-28-04, 07:46 PM	Even in the AD&D days, I did not use the critical fumble. I prefer the simple rule of a 1 is a miss, nothing more or less.
Tomasina 10-29-04, 11:18 AM	You may want to look at the book Torn Assunder by Bastion Press. We have began playing with their critical system, and have had a blast with it. It has a good system of enhancing both critical hits and fumbles so that they make a little more sense. This system also addresses the fact that higher characters might roll more critical fumbles by listing that a fumble is followed by a reflex save (DC14 I think) and only if you fail this will you critical fumble. As you gain higher levels it becomes harder to critical fumble since it is easier to make this save. Anyway, check it out... I think you will like it. Tomasina
Duke Lupo 10-30-04, 12:34 PM	You may want to look at the book Torn Assunder by Bastion Press. We have began playing with their critical system, and have had a blast with it. It has a good system of enhancing both critical hits and fumbles so that they make a little more sense. This system also addresses the fact that higher characters might roll more critical fumbles by listing that a fumble is followed by a reflex save (DC14 I think) and only if you fail this will you critical fumble. As you gain higher levels it becomes harder to critical fumble since it is easier to make this save. Anyway, check it out... I think you will like it. Tomasina I'll have to check it out. Currently our DM uses the critical miss tables from 4ed. Hackmaster. They are freaking brutal. Coupled with our "Take a spoonfull of moonshine when you roll a 1" houserule I'm about ready to sand the 1s of my dice and replace them with 2s.
celebrist 11-01-04, 03:17 PM	thanks for the input, i am devising a chart for fumble with the BAB as a modifier to reduce clutz chances for higher levels.
Platinu Kismet 11-04-04, 12:45 PM	I made up a table just to make it more fun for me. Plus, I subject the enemies the players fight to it also. Basically it's a table with 1 - 20 on it. Each result has a 'This happened unless you make a DC__ reflex save. That way, higher level characters are less likely to critically fumble because they'll have higher reflex saves. Some of the DCs to save against are only 10. If they roll a '1' on the fumble table the DC vs. dropping their sword is 18. This is the worst result by far, and it requires two '1s' in a row so they deserve it. :)
Phrennzy 11-04-04, 01:02 PM	My fumble system is quite simple, but similar to MP's. If you roll a 1, you've fumbled, and you must roll your attack roll again. If that attack roll misses your opponent's AC, you've critically fumbled. A critical fumble is a miss still, but you provoke an attack of opportunity from all foes who threaten you. Due to the second attack roll, higher level warriors aren't as likely to turn a fumble into a critical fumble. We use pretty much the same thing, except that only the person you were targetting gets an attack at you. If you fumble with a ranged weapon, you just drop it, unless there is someone right there to strike at you. I'm thinking of dropping the second roll to confirm and replacing it with a DEX save instead. Compared to one of our old tables filled with "hit self" "hit friend" "critical friend", etc, this is positively subdued.
celebrist 11-04-04, 01:13 PM	i decided to do a second attack roll as well because it is really the difference between opponents that would affect the chance of opening yourself up not your own level(higher level/quicker oppopents need less of an opening to lash out) i am using three possible results: 1. provoke AOO if in melee 2. hit ally if firing into melee 3. drop weapon/item if above don't apply
starfire311 11-04-04, 02:07 PM	My fumble system is quite simple, but similar to MP's. If you roll a 1, you've fumbled, and you must roll your attack roll again. If that attack roll misses your opponent's AC, you've critically fumbled. A critical fumble is a miss still, but you provoke an attack of opportunity from all foes who threaten you. Due to the second attack roll, higher level warriors aren't as likely to turn a fumble into a critical fumble. I use the exact same system. Due to the fact that higher level warriors get more attacks, they are more likely to get critical fumbles because they get more chances to fumble. Not only that, you severely penalise anyone using combat expertise, improved combat expertise or fight defensively. A level 16 fighter maxing out on combat expertise and fight defensively using a full attack will practically guarantee a critical fumble. This makes no sense whatsoever because the net effect is that you incur more attacks of opportunity when you are trying to defend yourself the most. If a level 16 fighter is doing all of this it will make him nearly imposible to hit. So say the fighter needs a 20 to hit his opponent and most likly his opponent will need a 20 to hit... so the fighter rolls a 1 and then fails to hit on the fumble threat then he provokes an AoO and his opponent then needs a 20 to hit him so that is a less than 1 in 400 chance of a critical fumble affecting him... in my exerience the critical fumbles have been much more devastating to the monsters/NPCs than the PCs