Critical Hit and Critical Fumble rule [Archive] - Wizards Community

Critical Hit and Critical Fumble rule [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Otto the Bugbear
11-27-05, 10:53 AM I've gone and modified my old tried and true critical hit and fumble system. I've been using a variant of this for nearly 13 years, so it's unlikely I'll ever remove it completely. That being said, it replaces the 3.x critical hit system and adds a fumble system as well. Before the band wagon comes rolling around, I've found that every group I've ever used this with enjoys it. I've also found that it adds to the game session rather than taking away from it. That means it would take a lot to make me scrap this system.

First, each character is assigned a critical percentage score, based on their class levels (and racial hit dice, if any). This is not dependent upon weapon used, only the skill of the wielder.

Critical Percentage
Base 10%
+6% per class level with d12 hit die
+5% per class level with d10 hit die
+4% per class level with d8 hit die
+3% per class level with d6 hit die
+2% per class level with d4 hit die

A character with the Improved Critical feat may add 2% per level (or HD) to his Critical Percentage score.
A character with the Improved Critical feat may decrease his Critical Mishap roll by 2% per level. (see below for critical mishaps)
A character using a weapon with the Keen or Impact enhancements may add 8% when attempting to confirm a critical hit. This has no effects on avoiding a critical fumble.

When a character rolls a '20' to hit in combat, he then attempts to confirm a critical hit by rolling equal or below his Critical Percentage score. If it is a confirmed critical hit, roll d% again and consult the following chart:

Critical Hits - use d% dice
01 - 05 = x2 damage
06 - 20 = x2 damage*
21 - 35 = x3 damage
36 - 45 = x3 damage*
46 - 55 = x4 damage
56 - 65 = x4 damage*
66 - 75 = x5 damage
76 - 85 = x5 damage*
86 - 95 = x6 damage
96 - 100 = instant kill (+100 exp per class level)
* = Extra attack at highest attack bonus

If on his first attack of a round a character rolls a '1' to hit in combat, he then attempts to avoid the critical fumble. For each attack beyond the first, he may roll an extra set of d% to avoid a mishap (2nd attack fumbles, roll twice; 4th attack fumbles, roll 4 times) and take the best roll. If he rolls equal or under his Critical Percentage score, he avoids. If he rolls above, roll d% again and consult the following chart (he does not get multiple rolls for the mishap, in the rare event that one occurs on subsequent attacks in a round):

Critical Mishaps - use % dice
01 - 06 = You are stunned for 1 round (Fort DC 20 avoids)
07 - 12 = Your grip on your weapon falters, your opponent may attempt a disarm as an AoO.
13 - 18 = Your shield arm becomes numb for 1d4 rounds. You retain half your shield bonus to AC.
19 - 24 = You are off balance. Lose all positive dexterity modifiers for 1 round.
25 - 30 = You leave yourself open to an attack. The next hit you suffer is a bleeding wound causing you to lose 2 hit points per round. Curing magic or a Heal check (DC 15) halts this bleeding.
31 - 36 = You break your weapon unless the weapon succeeds a Fort DC 12 save (includ weapon's enhancement bonus in this save).
37 - 42 = You are confused (as the spell) for 1 round (Will DC 20 avoids)
43 - 47 = You provoke an AoO from a single opponent (rolled randomly).
48 - 52 = You fumble badly enough to hurt yourself. You take 2d6 subdual damage.
53 - 57 = You are severly off balance. Your AC becomes 10 for 1 round (Ref DC 20 avoids)
58 - 62 = Your strike breaks your weapon.
63 - 67 = Debris gets in your eyes, blinding you for 1d4 rounds.
68 - 71 = You provoke an AoO from two opponents (rolled randomly)
72 - 75 = You are stunned for 2d6 rounds (Fort DC 20 each round to negate).
76 - 79 = You are off balance and become flat-footed for 1d6 rounds (Ref DC 20 each round to negate).
80 - 83 = You leave yourself open to a devastating hit. If you are hit within 1 round, it is sever enough to cause ability damage. Lose 1 from a random ability score. This heals at a rate of 1 point per month, or restoration, heal or similar magic heals it completly and immediatly.
84 - 87 = You leave yourself open to a devastating hit. If you are hit within 1 round, it is severe enough to cause you to lose 1d3 permanent hit points.
88 - 91 = You overswing so seriously that hurt yourself. Roll 2d6 x the result of a roll on the critical hit chart. You take that amound of subdual damage.
92 - 94 = In the heat of battle, you become confused (as the spell) for 2d6 rounds (Will DC 20 each round to negate).
95 - 100 = roll twice!

* Dropped weapons may be picked up as normal (see PHB or DMG).
* Blind characters are -4 AC, lose dexterity to AC, have a 50% miss chance (opponents have total conealment), and opponents gain +2 to hit (see PHB).
* Stunned characters may not attack, but still defend themselves normally or they may take a single move as a full round action. They are flat-footed for the duration of the stun (unless a class feature or magic item/effect keeps them from ever becoming flat-footed).
* If a critical mishap roll doesn't make sense, move to a higher roll on the chart one at a time until one does.

So, thanks for your input and I always welcome fresh ideas.

Cheers

Otto :)
Grizzled Gryphon
11-27-05, 11:42 AM Cool concept, man. However, I have to wonder about something. To me, the ones that are skilled at hitting the best, but not necassarily the hardest, go in this order. Rogue, for sheer precision of there hits ( especially with a sneak attack). This also goes for any other class that gets anything like the sneak attack, like Ninja, and Scout. Next up is Fighter. After all, combat is the only reason this class even exists. All of their training goes towards combat, and how to overcome there foe in the most efficient and quickest manner possible. Then, the Barbarian, almost as good as the fighter when it comes to training, but more reliant on brute strength than hitting pricisely. So, that is the order I think the crit progression should go in. Of course, haveing the rogue be the best at criting might not be such a good idea, what with sneak attack dice, but those aren't multiplied when a crit is rolled, and the weapons they use tend to be very low in the damage department. (Although, I have yet to see a reason why a rogue couldn't sneak attack with a Greatsword, aside from proficiency)

Don't take this as me saying your wrong with your idea, this is just my take on who would be best at getting crits. Obviously, your spellcasters would be the worst, but the lines can get blurred with that. What about the Warmage? He is all about throwing spells, but he isn't completely worthless with a weapon. I have one (he just reached Epic levels, yay!) that uses a Dwarven Waraxe (he is human), and he is quite good with it. Nothing like the Fighter, but much better than the Sorcerer. Even so, it is a "last resort" weapon. However, he is only good with it due to it being a Skilled weapon. How does that relate? His BAB with that weapon is as a Cleric of his level, due to the Skillful enchantment. Should he have the same crit range fo a Sorcerer, or a Cleric?

What I am getting at is I would base it on something other than hit die. A monk would be as good at critting as a fighter, if not a rogue, but a Paladin wouldn't be as good, due to all the religious training he took compared to a fighter. This poses a quandry, doesn't it? If you did like what I said here, how would you change it? What would you use for your criteria? With the core classes, that is easy, but the lines are a lttle blurred with other classes. Scout? Same as Rogue, or Ranger? Ninja is the same as Rogue, for sure. Spell Thief? I would say not as good as the Rogue, maybe the Fighter. And what about the Ranger? I suppose as good as the Fighter.

But this all just leads to the problem, there is no good way of quatifying which class gets what if you changed it to my way. I would just keep it your way, just for ease of use, if nothing else. I mean, the PrC's would make this insane.

Hmm, you could base it on what kind of character each one is, though. For instance, a PC that is a Rogue, and focuses on the cha type abilities, wouldn't be as good at critting as a Rogue who is more focused on the martial capabilites of the class. As for PrC's, lets use the Eldritch Knight as the example. Does the player play the character as a spell user with some fighting added in, or does he play him as a fighter with some spell use thrown in? I think this should have some bearing on how well they crit.

I guess the biggest thing about using the hit die as a criteria is the Cleric gets crits better than the Rogue, which doesn't seem right to me. But, oh, well. It still is a very cool idea, man. Kudos.
Grizzled Gryphon
11-27-05, 11:47 AM By the way, does this mean that a 20th level Barbarian gets + 130%? At this rate, he always gets a instant kill at 15th level, and never fumbles, and would get 1500 exp. Is that right?
Otto the Bugbear
11-27-05, 01:36 PM Thanks for the lengthy reply.

The concept you first talk about was how the chart started out (back in 2ed). Each class was listed according to where the inventor of this system wanted them to be placed.

The only other way I could see doing it is to base if off of BAB. While I respect your opinion about the rogueish classes, I think that those dedicated to fighting would have the best chance. The sneak attack feature would represent the rogue's precision increase, rather than a better crit chance.

The other reason I like basing it off of HD is that it's easy to figure up a monster's chance to crit/fumble. 5d6 hit dice = 15% chance; 18d8 hit dice = 72% chance. I guess basing it off BAB would accomplish the same effect.

(2nd response)
The roll made on each chart (critical hit / critical mishap) isn't affected by character levels in any way. A lucky 1st level wizard could roll a '20', confirm his crit with an 01, then roll 100 on the crit chart for an instant kill. You are correct in seeing that after a certain level, some classes (especailly with Improved Critical) would have more than 100% chance to confirm crits or avoid fumbles. The only way they would ever not do so would be because of fortification (light = -25% chance to crit, heavy = -100% chance to crit). In the games where this has been the case, the 20s come up so infrequently that it's not that unbalanced. It also helps represent the skill of someone who dedicates their life to fighting with weapons. After some time, they're just that good.

Cheers

Otto :)
Grizzled Gryphon
11-27-05, 02:03 PM Hmm, to be honest, I never even looked at it from a "balanced" point of veiw, as I don't see anything wrong with this in that sense. To me, anything is balanced, if it applies to PC's just as much as it does to everything else.

I concede your point about the Rogueish classes; that makes sense. I was thinking that, too.

Perhaps going off of BAB isn't such a bad idea, after all? Yes, I think that might fix it nicely. Not that "fixing" is really needed, I suppose. But, going offf of BAB would make it seem more right, though. then, the Barbarian, Fighter, and Paladin would do it best, followed by the Druid, Cleric, Rogue, and Monk, and then the Wizard and Sorcerer. Yeah, that makes more sense to me.
Otto the Bugbear
11-29-05, 08:52 PM Friendly :bump: for more feedback.
Gilean
11-30-05, 12:58 PM The constructive suggestion: 5% per point of BAB would be easy enough to count and not too far from the current idea.

Otherwise, adding a percentile system to d20 seems a bit strange. But I have understood that AD&D had very different systems for different tasks, so I understand where you are coming from. Anyway, I wouldn't do it.
If you have a group of old players, definitely use it.
Acceptableloss
02-18-06, 04:32 PM Having played with your critical hits chart, I have only one piece of constructive (I hope) criticism. If you only get to roll the % dice for a critical hit on a natural 20 attack roll, it kind of nerfs weapons with big crit ranges. Scimitars, for example, threaten a crit on an 18-20. If you take that away from them, they are in every way weaker than a longsword. Also, using your system makes a battleaxe and a longsword mechanically identical, which could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your point of view.

At one time I had a character that dual wielded scimitars and also had the power critical feat from Complete Warrior. It was fun to spew critical hits all over the place. Granted, 2d6 + 2 x Str bonus isn't exactly a devastating hit, but it was still fun.

A possible solution might be to use your critical hits table on nat 20s and use the regular rules for any attack roll other than 20 that threatens a critical hit -- So 18 and 19 for the scimitar example.
Ziggaraut
05-29-06, 04:13 PM If you go on that value, you will also have to consider weapons with a high crit modifier, like the scythe ( :w00t: ) I may have overlooked something there, so I apologize if I did, but is the new modifier from the crit chart added to the origanal modifier, or replaces it?
Otto the Bugbear
05-30-06, 12:43 PM If you go on that value, you will also have to consider weapons with a high crit modifier, like the scythe ( :w00t: ) I may have overlooked something there, so I apologize if I did, but is the new modifier from the crit chart added to the origanal modifier, or replaces it?

Zigg,

Thanks for resurrecting an old thread.

I've actually radically changed the system and you can check it out in my sig. I actually know Acceptableloss and our conversations helped mold the newest system a bit.

Cheers

Otto :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Otto the Bugbear 11-27-05, 10:53 AM	I've gone and modified my old tried and true critical hit and fumble system. I've been using a variant of this for nearly 13 years, so it's unlikely I'll ever remove it completely. That being said, it replaces the 3.x critical hit system and adds a fumble system as well. Before the band wagon comes rolling around, I've found that every group I've ever used this with enjoys it. I've also found that it adds to the game session rather than taking away from it. That means it would take a lot to make me scrap this system. First, each character is assigned a critical percentage score, based on their class levels (and racial hit dice, if any). This is not dependent upon weapon used, only the skill of the wielder. Critical Percentage Base 10% +6% per class level with d12 hit die +5% per class level with d10 hit die +4% per class level with d8 hit die +3% per class level with d6 hit die +2% per class level with d4 hit die A character with the Improved Critical feat may add 2% per level (or HD) to his Critical Percentage score. A character with the Improved Critical feat may decrease his Critical Mishap roll by 2% per level. (see below for critical mishaps) A character using a weapon with the Keen or Impact enhancements may add 8% when attempting to confirm a critical hit. This has no effects on avoiding a critical fumble. When a character rolls a '20' to hit in combat, he then attempts to confirm a critical hit by rolling equal or below his Critical Percentage score. If it is a confirmed critical hit, roll d% again and consult the following chart: Critical Hits - use d% dice 01 - 05 = x2 damage 06 - 20 = x2 damage* 21 - 35 = x3 damage 36 - 45 = x3 damage* 46 - 55 = x4 damage 56 - 65 = x4 damage* 66 - 75 = x5 damage 76 - 85 = x5 damage* 86 - 95 = x6 damage 96 - 100 = instant kill (+100 exp per class level) * = Extra attack at highest attack bonus If on his first attack of a round a character rolls a '1' to hit in combat, he then attempts to avoid the critical fumble. For each attack beyond the first, he may roll an extra set of d% to avoid a mishap (2nd attack fumbles, roll twice; 4th attack fumbles, roll 4 times) and take the best roll. If he rolls equal or under his Critical Percentage score, he avoids. If he rolls above, roll d% again and consult the following chart (he does not get multiple rolls for the mishap, in the rare event that one occurs on subsequent attacks in a round): Critical Mishaps - use % dice 01 - 06 = You are stunned for 1 round (Fort DC 20 avoids) 07 - 12 = Your grip on your weapon falters, your opponent may attempt a disarm as an AoO. 13 - 18 = Your shield arm becomes numb for 1d4 rounds. You retain half your shield bonus to AC. 19 - 24 = You are off balance. Lose all positive dexterity modifiers for 1 round. 25 - 30 = You leave yourself open to an attack. The next hit you suffer is a bleeding wound causing you to lose 2 hit points per round. Curing magic or a Heal check (DC 15) halts this bleeding. 31 - 36 = You break your weapon unless the weapon succeeds a Fort DC 12 save (includ weapon's enhancement bonus in this save). 37 - 42 = You are confused (as the spell) for 1 round (Will DC 20 avoids) 43 - 47 = You provoke an AoO from a single opponent (rolled randomly). 48 - 52 = You fumble badly enough to hurt yourself. You take 2d6 subdual damage. 53 - 57 = You are severly off balance. Your AC becomes 10 for 1 round (Ref DC 20 avoids) 58 - 62 = Your strike breaks your weapon. 63 - 67 = Debris gets in your eyes, blinding you for 1d4 rounds. 68 - 71 = You provoke an AoO from two opponents (rolled randomly) 72 - 75 = You are stunned for 2d6 rounds (Fort DC 20 each round to negate). 76 - 79 = You are off balance and become flat-footed for 1d6 rounds (Ref DC 20 each round to negate). 80 - 83 = You leave yourself open to a devastating hit. If you are hit within 1 round, it is sever enough to cause ability damage. Lose 1 from a random ability score. This heals at a rate of 1 point per month, or restoration, heal or similar magic heals it completly and immediatly. 84 - 87 = You leave yourself open to a devastating hit. If you are hit within 1 round, it is severe enough to cause you to lose 1d3 permanent hit points. 88 - 91 = You overswing so seriously that hurt yourself. Roll 2d6 x the result of a roll on the critical hit chart. You take that amound of subdual damage. 92 - 94 = In the heat of battle, you become confused (as the spell) for 2d6 rounds (Will DC 20 each round to negate). 95 - 100 = roll twice! * Dropped weapons may be picked up as normal (see PHB or DMG). * Blind characters are -4 AC, lose dexterity to AC, have a 50% miss chance (opponents have total conealment), and opponents gain +2 to hit (see PHB). * Stunned characters may not attack, but still defend themselves normally or they may take a single move as a full round action. They are flat-footed for the duration of the stun (unless a class feature or magic item/effect keeps them from ever becoming flat-footed). * If a critical mishap roll doesn't make sense, move to a higher roll on the chart one at a time until one does. So, thanks for your input and I always welcome fresh ideas. Cheers Otto :)
Grizzled Gryphon 11-27-05, 11:42 AM	Cool concept, man. However, I have to wonder about something. To me, the ones that are skilled at hitting the best, but not necassarily the hardest, go in this order. Rogue, for sheer precision of there hits ( especially with a sneak attack). This also goes for any other class that gets anything like the sneak attack, like Ninja, and Scout. Next up is Fighter. After all, combat is the only reason this class even exists. All of their training goes towards combat, and how to overcome there foe in the most efficient and quickest manner possible. Then, the Barbarian, almost as good as the fighter when it comes to training, but more reliant on brute strength than hitting pricisely. So, that is the order I think the crit progression should go in. Of course, haveing the rogue be the best at criting might not be such a good idea, what with sneak attack dice, but those aren't multiplied when a crit is rolled, and the weapons they use tend to be very low in the damage department. (Although, I have yet to see a reason why a rogue couldn't sneak attack with a Greatsword, aside from proficiency) Don't take this as me saying your wrong with your idea, this is just my take on who would be best at getting crits. Obviously, your spellcasters would be the worst, but the lines can get blurred with that. What about the Warmage? He is all about throwing spells, but he isn't completely worthless with a weapon. I have one (he just reached Epic levels, yay!) that uses a Dwarven Waraxe (he is human), and he is quite good with it. Nothing like the Fighter, but much better than the Sorcerer. Even so, it is a "last resort" weapon. However, he is only good with it due to it being a Skilled weapon. How does that relate? His BAB with that weapon is as a Cleric of his level, due to the Skillful enchantment. Should he have the same crit range fo a Sorcerer, or a Cleric? What I am getting at is I would base it on something other than hit die. A monk would be as good at critting as a fighter, if not a rogue, but a Paladin wouldn't be as good, due to all the religious training he took compared to a fighter. This poses a quandry, doesn't it? If you did like what I said here, how would you change it? What would you use for your criteria? With the core classes, that is easy, but the lines are a lttle blurred with other classes. Scout? Same as Rogue, or Ranger? Ninja is the same as Rogue, for sure. Spell Thief? I would say not as good as the Rogue, maybe the Fighter. And what about the Ranger? I suppose as good as the Fighter. But this all just leads to the problem, there is no good way of quatifying which class gets what if you changed it to my way. I would just keep it your way, just for ease of use, if nothing else. I mean, the PrC's would make this insane. Hmm, you could base it on what kind of character each one is, though. For instance, a PC that is a Rogue, and focuses on the cha type abilities, wouldn't be as good at critting as a Rogue who is more focused on the martial capabilites of the class. As for PrC's, lets use the Eldritch Knight as the example. Does the player play the character as a spell user with some fighting added in, or does he play him as a fighter with some spell use thrown in? I think this should have some bearing on how well they crit. I guess the biggest thing about using the hit die as a criteria is the Cleric gets crits better than the Rogue, which doesn't seem right to me. But, oh, well. It still is a very cool idea, man. Kudos.
Grizzled Gryphon 11-27-05, 11:47 AM	By the way, does this mean that a 20th level Barbarian gets + 130%? At this rate, he always gets a instant kill at 15th level, and never fumbles, and would get 1500 exp. Is that right?
Otto the Bugbear 11-27-05, 01:36 PM	Thanks for the lengthy reply. The concept you first talk about was how the chart started out (back in 2ed). Each class was listed according to where the inventor of this system wanted them to be placed. The only other way I could see doing it is to base if off of BAB. While I respect your opinion about the rogueish classes, I think that those dedicated to fighting would have the best chance. The sneak attack feature would represent the rogue's precision increase, rather than a better crit chance. The other reason I like basing it off of HD is that it's easy to figure up a monster's chance to crit/fumble. 5d6 hit dice = 15% chance; 18d8 hit dice = 72% chance. I guess basing it off BAB would accomplish the same effect. (2nd response) The roll made on each chart (critical hit / critical mishap) isn't affected by character levels in any way. A lucky 1st level wizard could roll a '20', confirm his crit with an 01, then roll 100 on the crit chart for an instant kill. You are correct in seeing that after a certain level, some classes (especailly with Improved Critical) would have more than 100% chance to confirm crits or avoid fumbles. The only way they would ever not do so would be because of fortification (light = -25% chance to crit, heavy = -100% chance to crit). In the games where this has been the case, the 20s come up so infrequently that it's not that unbalanced. It also helps represent the skill of someone who dedicates their life to fighting with weapons. After some time, they're just that good. Cheers Otto :)
Grizzled Gryphon 11-27-05, 02:03 PM	Hmm, to be honest, I never even looked at it from a "balanced" point of veiw, as I don't see anything wrong with this in that sense. To me, anything is balanced, if it applies to PC's just as much as it does to everything else. I concede your point about the Rogueish classes; that makes sense. I was thinking that, too. Perhaps going off of BAB isn't such a bad idea, after all? Yes, I think that might fix it nicely. Not that "fixing" is really needed, I suppose. But, going offf of BAB would make it seem more right, though. then, the Barbarian, Fighter, and Paladin would do it best, followed by the Druid, Cleric, Rogue, and Monk, and then the Wizard and Sorcerer. Yeah, that makes more sense to me.
Otto the Bugbear 11-29-05, 08:52 PM	Friendly :bump: for more feedback.
Gilean 11-30-05, 12:58 PM	The constructive suggestion: 5% per point of BAB would be easy enough to count and not too far from the current idea. Otherwise, adding a percentile system to d20 seems a bit strange. But I have understood that AD&D had very different systems for different tasks, so I understand where you are coming from. Anyway, I wouldn't do it. If you have a group of old players, definitely use it.
Acceptableloss 02-18-06, 04:32 PM	Having played with your critical hits chart, I have only one piece of constructive (I hope) criticism. If you only get to roll the % dice for a critical hit on a natural 20 attack roll, it kind of nerfs weapons with big crit ranges. Scimitars, for example, threaten a crit on an 18-20. If you take that away from them, they are in every way weaker than a longsword. Also, using your system makes a battleaxe and a longsword mechanically identical, which could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your point of view. At one time I had a character that dual wielded scimitars and also had the power critical feat from Complete Warrior. It was fun to spew critical hits all over the place. Granted, 2d6 + 2 x Str bonus isn't exactly a devastating hit, but it was still fun. A possible solution might be to use your critical hits table on nat 20s and use the regular rules for any attack roll other than 20 that threatens a critical hit -- So 18 and 19 for the scimitar example.
Ziggaraut 05-29-06, 04:13 PM	If you go on that value, you will also have to consider weapons with a high crit modifier, like the scythe ( :w00t: ) I may have overlooked something there, so I apologize if I did, but is the new modifier from the crit chart added to the origanal modifier, or replaces it?
Otto the Bugbear 05-30-06, 12:43 PM	If you go on that value, you will also have to consider weapons with a high crit modifier, like the scythe ( :w00t: ) I may have overlooked something there, so I apologize if I did, but is the new modifier from the crit chart added to the origanal modifier, or replaces it? Zigg, Thanks for resurrecting an old thread. I've actually radically changed the system and you can check it out in my sig. I actually know Acceptableloss and our conversations helped mold the newest system a bit. Cheers Otto :)