Critical hits and effects [Archive] - Wizards Community

Critical hits and effects [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nifftin
06-30-07, 06:40 PM Does anyone remember the critical hit charts from 2nd edition? Where if you get a critical hit you hit a specific area (arm, torso, head, etc.) and you would roll for how severely you hit that body part. When it would be around 1-3 you would do nothing great, but it would get stronger and stronger as you rolled higher, to causing them to start bleeding to even complete amputation.

Curious if anyone still uses this chart in 3.5 or 3.0 or if there is a revised/remade chart similiar to this, or use any system like this?
Salla
06-30-07, 06:51 PM Bad idea then, bad idea now.

It's funny when a goblin gets an arm lopped off; but the goblin was never intended to stick around more than a couple of rounds. A PC is expected to be in for the long haul. If a PC loses an arm, unless he can get it regenerated (7th level clerical spell), he's completely gimped. He'll either have to suffer with it for a long time, or retire the character because he'll have a crippling drawback, neither of which is fair to the player.
Werral
06-30-07, 08:02 PM Didn't Paizo publish a book with that kind of thing for 3E?

I played 2E but never with the hit location thing.

If you want bits getting cut off maybe say that at 0 HP you start losing bits - all damage beyond 0HP is a bit that comes off. Massive damage involves loss of bits rather than instant death.

How you decide which bits come off is your decision.

I don't think this is a "bad idea" but it is for a combat heavy, classic 4 encounters a day type thing. Basically anything deadlier than standard D&D works well for high RP low combat style campaigns and stuff like horror.
RobbyPants
07-01-07, 01:33 PM Yeah, it was in Combat & Tactics. It seemed like a good idea at the time (ten years ago) to use it, but now I don't think I'd want to. I don't use it largely for the reason that Salla posted. The stronger you make critical hits (or randomness in general), the more it favors the monsters. I've seen several variants in the DMG and UA that change the randomness of the game, and they all have the same sidebar: increased randomness favors the underdog (which should hopefully be the monsters! :P).

Edit:
Back in 2E when I was using that C&T crit table, we played a 1-on-1 game. We spent an hour or so rolling the guy, and he got his head cut off in the first round of the first encounter. Loads of fun.
Rumple_Cragstan
07-01-07, 02:15 PM Didn't Paizo publish a book with that kind of thing for 3E?

I don't own it, but what I've seen its a deck of cards you draw from, and each one has a random (but not uber-powerful) effect.

Something like halfing the enemy's movement speed, because you hit his leg. Or giving him a -1 to attacks for the next 1d6 rounds because you hit his weapon arm. Something like that; it gives flavor and detail, but not something as broken as "Well, I rolled 00 on the % dice, looks like you guys killed my campaign boss in 1 lucky crit" scenarios.
Seldriss
07-02-07, 05:11 PM I am personally using hit locations, critical hits and critical fumbles for years, since the 1st edition.
Not only it is not as gore as many people think, but it brings some unexpected turns during fights.
Although the severance of a limb or head is always a risk, it happens actually very rarely, and thanks to the mighty d100, quite never happened to my players's characters. Some of course have been killed by the multiplied damage, but they could get killed the same way by a x2 in a 3.0 critic.
Everybody is susceptible to get a nasty blow, even the mightiest of the heroes, even the worse villain.
Rather than bringing fear of death, it brings humility (always good for survival) and hope (always good for heroes wanabees).
Hugin
07-04-07, 10:59 AM My group uses that critical hit table. They love it, even when it happens against a PC. The tension builds as the dice are rolled. Although my games are pretty gritty, we don't play a combat heavy game.

I basically use it as is from the Combat & Tactics book but I did add two small caveats. First, it is only used on a natural 20 regardless of the weapon's actual critical threat range and there is no way to increase that. The critical must be confirmed as per the normal rules in any case. Secondly, the victim is allowed a DC 20 Fort save to avoid the effects of the critical chart only, not the damage.

Allowing the Fort Save provides for higher level characters the ability to improve their resistance to the critical effects.
Steely_Dan
07-04-07, 11:56 AM The most hilarious critical hit tables I've come across was in the old Arduin Grimoire RPG.

One of the possible results was: Buttocks torn off, fall, SHOCK

I'm totally serious.
Werral
07-04-07, 12:43 PM The worst was Rolemaster, they had a different table for every kind of damage and hit location. Sounds realistic, till you hit a wolf in the sword arm...

The Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1 was fun the first couple of times round. They used the crit tables instead of negative HP.
Hugin
07-04-07, 01:00 PM The Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1 was fun the first couple of times round. They used the crit tables instead of negative HP.
That sounds like a really interesting concept to build on though... :thinks:
Werral
07-05-07, 06:56 PM Well it does make sense - anything that in standard rules kills you - so Massive Damage and 0 HP takes you onto the crit tables.

Actually makes combat more survivable.
Imric
07-06-07, 02:25 AM Me and my players made our own fumble (Roll of a natural 1 + Dex check) and a Critical hit table.
They love it.
One of the players is with me right now and told me that "if I take it away, it will be one more thing to yell at me for."
"Its like the coolest thing I reckon"

Just ask your players, thats my answer to any house rule.
highbulp
07-06-07, 05:22 PM I use a Wound system (in combination with the Wound/Vitality variant in the SRD). So whenever someone takes wound damage, they also take a Wound based on the how much wound damage they take. Wounds have minor effects, and they go away whenever the wound heals. Basically it makes it so that taking wound damage (like from a crit) slows you down a little as well.

But my numbers are not real extreme. A 1-2 point Wound has no effect, a 3-5 point wound is usually a -1. Because of the style of game I've been running (and because of using Armor as DR), PCs rarely take a wound of more than 8 or 10 points (which is like a -2 or -4 to some rolls). I think the worst wound a PC took was 14 points, and this is over a year of playing. Note that my system is also a replacement for becoming fatigued after taking Wound damage--instead of a -2 to Strength and Dex, you get a range of effects based on the location and strength of the hit, most of which are not much worse.

Wounds can possibly cut off a limb. But this happens when you take a 20 or 30 point wound. In other words, you've taken 20 or 30 points of wound damage. For most characters (with 10-15 Con), this means you're dead anyway.
Werral
07-07-07, 06:53 AM Could you post this system? It sounds viable.
highbulp
07-07-07, 10:20 AM Could you post this system? It sounds viable.

You actually want to see my system? I'm truly flattered :)

Okay, you can download a doc with the write-up at http://www.yar-matey.net/dnd/Custom%20Combat%20System.doc, as I'm too lazy to try and reformat everything here. I took out all the other stuff about my campaign setting (though if you're interested in that I can post the whole document :p).

I'll add a quick note: I've only playtested this for about a year, with characters going from levels 1 to 5. In general it works nicely, though there is one player who got upset because in two fights (almost in a row) he took a critical hit right off the bat which took him out of the fight (because he had taken so much wound damage, not because of the Wound effects), so he had to sit around. Such an occurance could be less of a problem if the group has a healer. I have no idea how this will play out at higher levels yet--if you use it and test it, please let me know.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nifftin 06-30-07, 06:40 PM	Does anyone remember the critical hit charts from 2nd edition? Where if you get a critical hit you hit a specific area (arm, torso, head, etc.) and you would roll for how severely you hit that body part. When it would be around 1-3 you would do nothing great, but it would get stronger and stronger as you rolled higher, to causing them to start bleeding to even complete amputation. Curious if anyone still uses this chart in 3.5 or 3.0 or if there is a revised/remade chart similiar to this, or use any system like this?
Salla 06-30-07, 06:51 PM	Bad idea then, bad idea now. It's funny when a goblin gets an arm lopped off; but the goblin was never intended to stick around more than a couple of rounds. A PC is expected to be in for the long haul. If a PC loses an arm, unless he can get it regenerated (7th level clerical spell), he's completely gimped. He'll either have to suffer with it for a long time, or retire the character because he'll have a crippling drawback, neither of which is fair to the player.
Werral 06-30-07, 08:02 PM	Didn't Paizo publish a book with that kind of thing for 3E? I played 2E but never with the hit location thing. If you want bits getting cut off maybe say that at 0 HP you start losing bits - all damage beyond 0HP is a bit that comes off. Massive damage involves loss of bits rather than instant death. How you decide which bits come off is your decision. I don't think this is a "bad idea" but it is for a combat heavy, classic 4 encounters a day type thing. Basically anything deadlier than standard D&D works well for high RP low combat style campaigns and stuff like horror.
RobbyPants 07-01-07, 01:33 PM	Yeah, it was in Combat & Tactics. It seemed like a good idea at the time (ten years ago) to use it, but now I don't think I'd want to. I don't use it largely for the reason that Salla posted. The stronger you make critical hits (or randomness in general), the more it favors the monsters. I've seen several variants in the DMG and UA that change the randomness of the game, and they all have the same sidebar: increased randomness favors the underdog (which should hopefully be the monsters! :P). Edit: Back in 2E when I was using that C&T crit table, we played a 1-on-1 game. We spent an hour or so rolling the guy, and he got his head cut off in the first round of the first encounter. Loads of fun.
Rumple_Cragstan 07-01-07, 02:15 PM	Didn't Paizo publish a book with that kind of thing for 3E? I don't own it, but what I've seen its a deck of cards you draw from, and each one has a random (but not uber-powerful) effect. Something like halfing the enemy's movement speed, because you hit his leg. Or giving him a -1 to attacks for the next 1d6 rounds because you hit his weapon arm. Something like that; it gives flavor and detail, but not something as broken as "Well, I rolled 00 on the % dice, looks like you guys killed my campaign boss in 1 lucky crit" scenarios.
Seldriss 07-02-07, 05:11 PM	I am personally using hit locations, critical hits and critical fumbles for years, since the 1st edition. Not only it is not as gore as many people think, but it brings some unexpected turns during fights. Although the severance of a limb or head is always a risk, it happens actually very rarely, and thanks to the mighty d100, quite never happened to my players's characters. Some of course have been killed by the multiplied damage, but they could get killed the same way by a x2 in a 3.0 critic. Everybody is susceptible to get a nasty blow, even the mightiest of the heroes, even the worse villain. Rather than bringing fear of death, it brings humility (always good for survival) and hope (always good for heroes wanabees).
Hugin 07-04-07, 10:59 AM	My group uses that critical hit table. They love it, even when it happens against a PC. The tension builds as the dice are rolled. Although my games are pretty gritty, we don't play a combat heavy game. I basically use it as is from the Combat & Tactics book but I did add two small caveats. First, it is only used on a natural 20 regardless of the weapon's actual critical threat range and there is no way to increase that. The critical must be confirmed as per the normal rules in any case. Secondly, the victim is allowed a DC 20 Fort save to avoid the effects of the critical chart only, not the damage. Allowing the Fort Save provides for higher level characters the ability to improve their resistance to the critical effects.
Steely_Dan 07-04-07, 11:56 AM	The most hilarious critical hit tables I've come across was in the old Arduin Grimoire RPG. One of the possible results was: Buttocks torn off, fall, SHOCK I'm totally serious.
Werral 07-04-07, 12:43 PM	The worst was Rolemaster, they had a different table for every kind of damage and hit location. Sounds realistic, till you hit a wolf in the sword arm... The Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1 was fun the first couple of times round. They used the crit tables instead of negative HP.
Hugin 07-04-07, 01:00 PM	The Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1 was fun the first couple of times round. They used the crit tables instead of negative HP. That sounds like a really interesting concept to build on though... :thinks:
Werral 07-05-07, 06:56 PM	Well it does make sense - anything that in standard rules kills you - so Massive Damage and 0 HP takes you onto the crit tables. Actually makes combat more survivable.
Imric 07-06-07, 02:25 AM	Me and my players made our own fumble (Roll of a natural 1 + Dex check) and a Critical hit table. They love it. One of the players is with me right now and told me that "if I take it away, it will be one more thing to yell at me for." "Its like the coolest thing I reckon" Just ask your players, thats my answer to any house rule.
highbulp 07-06-07, 05:22 PM	I use a Wound system (in combination with the Wound/Vitality variant in the SRD). So whenever someone takes wound damage, they also take a Wound based on the how much wound damage they take. Wounds have minor effects, and they go away whenever the wound heals. Basically it makes it so that taking wound damage (like from a crit) slows you down a little as well. But my numbers are not real extreme. A 1-2 point Wound has no effect, a 3-5 point wound is usually a -1. Because of the style of game I've been running (and because of using Armor as DR), PCs rarely take a wound of more than 8 or 10 points (which is like a -2 or -4 to some rolls). I think the worst wound a PC took was 14 points, and this is over a year of playing. Note that my system is also a replacement for becoming fatigued after taking Wound damage--instead of a -2 to Strength and Dex, you get a range of effects based on the location and strength of the hit, most of which are not much worse. Wounds can possibly cut off a limb. But this happens when you take a 20 or 30 point wound. In other words, you've taken 20 or 30 points of wound damage. For most characters (with 10-15 Con), this means you're dead anyway.
Werral 07-07-07, 06:53 AM	Could you post this system? It sounds viable.
highbulp 07-07-07, 10:20 AM	Could you post this system? It sounds viable. You actually want to see my system? I'm truly flattered :) Okay, you can download a doc with the write-up at http://www.yar-matey.net/dnd/Custom%20Combat%20System.doc, as I'm too lazy to try and reformat everything here. I took out all the other stuff about my campaign setting (though if you're interested in that I can post the whole document :p). I'll add a quick note: I've only playtested this for about a year, with characters going from levels 1 to 5. In general it works nicely, though there is one player who got upset because in two fights (almost in a row) he took a critical hit right off the bat which took him out of the fight (because he had taken so much wound damage, not because of the Wound effects), so he had to sit around. Such an occurance could be less of a problem if the group has a healer. I have no idea how this will play out at higher levels yet--if you use it and test it, please let me know.