Critical opening [Archive] - Wizards Community

Critical opening [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zepherin
10-16-05, 01:00 PM You continually hear that critical fumble rules are stupid to implement, so i just wanted to share my take on the case before using it in my game. When a player rolls a natural 1 he makes a mistake, and leaves an opening in his defenses. This allows every enemy that threatens him to make an attack of opportunity. If this rule seems a bit too evil, please give me some suggestions, on how to make it better.
Steel Cobra
10-16-05, 02:31 PM Actually I like this. I think I will use this next tiem I play.
Thank you for this idea

-Steel
legophreak
10-16-05, 02:34 PM In our game, if you attack, and roll a "1" certain things happen depending on the weapon. If it's a melee weapon, you drop it, or it slips as you swing, and you end up throwing it, or if you are fighting in melee with another friend, there is a chance you may hit him instead. If it's a bow, the arrow wasn't knocked right, and falls to the ground, or the flights are damaged, and hit an adjacent target instead, or if it's not composite you overdraw, and snap the string.

We have created a chart where if you roll a 1, then a die is rolled to determine what happens. ( on the chart is there a choice of nothing happens, and combat continues)

Hope that helps...
Cymraegmorgan
10-16-05, 03:24 PM You continually hear that critical fumble rules are stupid to implement, so i just wanted to share my take on the case before using it in my game. When a player rolls a natural 1 he makes a mistake, and leaves an opening in his defenses. This allows every enemy that threatens him to make an attack of opportunity. If this rule seems a bit too evil, please give me some suggestions, on how to make it better.

This is SO superior to fumbles. Good job!!
FlameLover
10-16-05, 06:37 PM Wait - this isn't any better than fumbling! It still has the problem that a high-level Fighter will let there defences down more than a low level one. Now with this they atleast have to hit there AC for anything "bad" to happen but it's still not quite right.

I do luck the AoO though, so i'd change it that it only applies to your FIRST attack. That way the chance of getting an AoO remain consistant throughout. That or make it you need to roll 1 on ALL attacks but then fighters would never fumble, EVER at high levels.
Arcade
10-17-05, 08:27 AM I've considered this as well. I would say that if you roll a natural 1, you should see it like a critical threat and roll another dice to see if you miss the target again. If you do miss, then it is a critical fumble. Otherwise, it is just an automatic miss.
Millennium
10-17-05, 03:29 PM Wait - this isn't any better than fumbling! It still has the problem that a high-level Fighter will let there defences down more than a low level one.
Only if the high-level Fighter makes many attacks, and this makes sense. Ask anyone with any experience in fighting: every time you attack, you expose yourself to the risk of screwing up. If you make more attacks in the same amount of time, then you have to move faster and less carefully, which means less of a margin of error.
I do luck the AoO though, so i'd change it that it only applies to your FIRST attack. That way the chance of getting an AoO remain consistant throughout. That or make it you need to roll 1 on ALL attacks but then fighters would never fumble, EVER at high levels.
How about this, then: if your BAB is 10 or higher, then only attacks made as part of a full attack action are subject to critical fumbles. This lets a skilled fighter choose to go much more slowly and carefully, sacrificing speed for safety. As an alternative, you could say that any individual attack roll is only subject to critical fumbles if that roll's attack bonus is less than +10. Done this way, a skilled melee fighter has no risk for his first few attacks, but stretching himself to his limits requires pressing his luck, particularly if he's got Flurry of Blows or TWF.
Xeviat-DM
10-17-05, 03:43 PM If a 1 is rolled on an attack roll, you've performed a Miss; make another attack roll. If that second attack roll is a miss as well (not just a 1), you've performed a Critical Miss, and you provoke an Attack of Opportunity.

Like all provocations of AoOs, if you provoke this AoO multiple times in the same round, a single opponent can only take advantage of this once.

Because a foe would have to have Combat Reflexes anyway to make multiple AoOs, only a single Critical Miss per character per round will really matter.

I've done this in my games, and it's worked out pretty well. The PCs didn't like it when it happened to them, but a scythe wielding PC loved it when an orc critically missed, and the PC returned with a scythe critical hit.
FlameLover
10-17-05, 06:51 PM I like Xeviat DM's solution. I'd make it if you rolled a natural 1 though that you might drop your weapon. The idea is if you roll a 1 but would have still hit it's just an AoO-provoker but if you wouldn't have hit with the 1 you drop your weapon and provoke an AoO (and you'll probably get more when you pick it up).

That might be a little harsh though but i do like just the miss/AoO. That part isn't too bad for players but i feel *something* needs to be there when you roll a 1 again.
Lucent
10-25-05, 01:42 AM I've been using this system (sans the critical miss suggestion, which I may implement to test) for four years now, and it has worked well with my group. I agree with the sentiments that every time an attack is made, the attacker is leaving the option open for a counter-attack or making a vital spot open.

Certainly being a seasoned fighter means being able to make more iterative attacks in a shorter span of time, but the more swings one makes the more likely they are to miss a step.

I also recommend implementing use of the following feat and flaw (if you use the flaw rules from Unearthed Arcana). Both rules presume you are using the confirmation method stated above:

Combat Awareness [General]
You have trained yourself to close openings in your defenses made from continuous strikes in combat.
Prerequisite: +5 base attack bonus
Benefit: You no longer threaten a critical miss on the roll of a 1.
Special: A fighter may select this as one of his bonus feats.

Untrained Combatant [Flaw]
You were poorly trained to fight and expose yourself to dangerous counterattacks more often.
Effect: You always confirm critical misses on a roll of a 1.
Special: You may not take this flaw if you have the Combat Awareness feat.
FlameLover
10-25-05, 05:13 PM I'd change them slightly - Combat Awareness should just give a +4 bonus on the Critical Miss while Untrained Combatant should make 1s and 2s force a CM confirm. This would allow you to take Combat Awareness to slightly negate the Flaw but it's balanced either way i think (this would apply to Rays, Orcs and stuff aswell!)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zepherin 10-16-05, 01:00 PM	You continually hear that critical fumble rules are stupid to implement, so i just wanted to share my take on the case before using it in my game. When a player rolls a natural 1 he makes a mistake, and leaves an opening in his defenses. This allows every enemy that threatens him to make an attack of opportunity. If this rule seems a bit too evil, please give me some suggestions, on how to make it better.
Steel Cobra 10-16-05, 02:31 PM	Actually I like this. I think I will use this next tiem I play. Thank you for this idea -Steel
legophreak 10-16-05, 02:34 PM	In our game, if you attack, and roll a "1" certain things happen depending on the weapon. If it's a melee weapon, you drop it, or it slips as you swing, and you end up throwing it, or if you are fighting in melee with another friend, there is a chance you may hit him instead. If it's a bow, the arrow wasn't knocked right, and falls to the ground, or the flights are damaged, and hit an adjacent target instead, or if it's not composite you overdraw, and snap the string. We have created a chart where if you roll a 1, then a die is rolled to determine what happens. ( on the chart is there a choice of nothing happens, and combat continues) Hope that helps...
Cymraegmorgan 10-16-05, 03:24 PM	You continually hear that critical fumble rules are stupid to implement, so i just wanted to share my take on the case before using it in my game. When a player rolls a natural 1 he makes a mistake, and leaves an opening in his defenses. This allows every enemy that threatens him to make an attack of opportunity. If this rule seems a bit too evil, please give me some suggestions, on how to make it better. This is SO superior to fumbles. Good job!!
FlameLover 10-16-05, 06:37 PM	Wait - this isn't any better than fumbling! It still has the problem that a high-level Fighter will let there defences down more than a low level one. Now with this they atleast have to hit there AC for anything "bad" to happen but it's still not quite right. I do luck the AoO though, so i'd change it that it only applies to your FIRST attack. That way the chance of getting an AoO remain consistant throughout. That or make it you need to roll 1 on ALL attacks but then fighters would never fumble, EVER at high levels.
Arcade 10-17-05, 08:27 AM	I've considered this as well. I would say that if you roll a natural 1, you should see it like a critical threat and roll another dice to see if you miss the target again. If you do miss, then it is a critical fumble. Otherwise, it is just an automatic miss.
Millennium 10-17-05, 03:29 PM	Wait - this isn't any better than fumbling! It still has the problem that a high-level Fighter will let there defences down more than a low level one. Only if the high-level Fighter makes many attacks, and this makes sense. Ask anyone with any experience in fighting: every time you attack, you expose yourself to the risk of screwing up. If you make more attacks in the same amount of time, then you have to move faster and less carefully, which means less of a margin of error. I do luck the AoO though, so i'd change it that it only applies to your FIRST attack. That way the chance of getting an AoO remain consistant throughout. That or make it you need to roll 1 on ALL attacks but then fighters would never fumble, EVER at high levels. How about this, then: if your BAB is 10 or higher, then only attacks made as part of a full attack action are subject to critical fumbles. This lets a skilled fighter choose to go much more slowly and carefully, sacrificing speed for safety. As an alternative, you could say that any individual attack roll is only subject to critical fumbles if that roll's attack bonus is less than +10. Done this way, a skilled melee fighter has no risk for his first few attacks, but stretching himself to his limits requires pressing his luck, particularly if he's got Flurry of Blows or TWF.
Xeviat-DM 10-17-05, 03:43 PM	If a 1 is rolled on an attack roll, you've performed a Miss; make another attack roll. If that second attack roll is a miss as well (not just a 1), you've performed a Critical Miss, and you provoke an Attack of Opportunity. Like all provocations of AoOs, if you provoke this AoO multiple times in the same round, a single opponent can only take advantage of this once. Because a foe would have to have Combat Reflexes anyway to make multiple AoOs, only a single Critical Miss per character per round will really matter. I've done this in my games, and it's worked out pretty well. The PCs didn't like it when it happened to them, but a scythe wielding PC loved it when an orc critically missed, and the PC returned with a scythe critical hit.
FlameLover 10-17-05, 06:51 PM	I like Xeviat DM's solution. I'd make it if you rolled a natural 1 though that you might drop your weapon. The idea is if you roll a 1 but would have still hit it's just an AoO-provoker but if you wouldn't have hit with the 1 you drop your weapon and provoke an AoO (and you'll probably get more when you pick it up). That might be a little harsh though but i do like just the miss/AoO. That part isn't too bad for players but i feel something needs to be there when you roll a 1 again.
Lucent 10-25-05, 01:42 AM	I've been using this system (sans the critical miss suggestion, which I may implement to test) for four years now, and it has worked well with my group. I agree with the sentiments that every time an attack is made, the attacker is leaving the option open for a counter-attack or making a vital spot open. Certainly being a seasoned fighter means being able to make more iterative attacks in a shorter span of time, but the more swings one makes the more likely they are to miss a step. I also recommend implementing use of the following feat and flaw (if you use the flaw rules from Unearthed Arcana). Both rules presume you are using the confirmation method stated above: Combat Awareness [General] You have trained yourself to close openings in your defenses made from continuous strikes in combat. Prerequisite: +5 base attack bonus Benefit: You no longer threaten a critical miss on the roll of a 1. Special: A fighter may select this as one of his bonus feats. Untrained Combatant [Flaw] You were poorly trained to fight and expose yourself to dangerous counterattacks more often. Effect: You always confirm critical misses on a roll of a 1. Special: You may not take this flaw if you have the Combat Awareness feat.
FlameLover 10-25-05, 05:13 PM	I'd change them slightly - Combat Awareness should just give a +4 bonus on the Critical Miss while Untrained Combatant should make 1s and 2s force a CM confirm. This would allow you to take Combat Awareness to slightly negate the Flaw but it's balanced either way i think (this would apply to Rays, Orcs and stuff aswell!)