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| DragonWatcher04-14-04, 10:03 PM | One thing that always bothered me about the core classes in D&D is that they included Barbarians as a class. Now, I know that many of you like the barbarian class, and that's cool. It's just that I've always thought of barbarians as more of a culture, rather than a class. In my oppinion, a barbaric culture could support fighters, druids, rangers, bards, or a number of other classes. Okay, so I know what I think about barbarians (and now so do you), but what to do about it. Create a Barbarian race? A barbarian template? Nope... the problem with either of these is that it's a one-time bonus. You can't give level dependant benefits with either one. Then Unearthed Arcana came out, and it had this cool idea for Bloodlines. This is what inspired the following: Cultural Templates Cultural templates work like Bloodlines from Unearthed Arcana. The character gains benefits from their culture as they progress in level. These benefits come with a cost, however. At predetermined intervals, the character must take one or more class levels in “Culture”. If they do not take a level in their culture by the level indicated, they no longer gain any of the traits that their culture would otherwise give. They also suffer a 20% experience penalty on further advancement until they take a level in their culture. Once a level is taken in culture, they no longer suffer the experience penalty, and gain all of the traits that they should normally have to this point. Unlike Bloodlines, the character does not get to determine the impact of their culture. Each cultural template is determined to be minor, intermediate, or major by the impact that the particular template has on the setting and the characters involved in it. Cultural Template: Barbarian Throughout the lands, there are those that keep themselves apart from the rest of society. Living as one with the land, the bonds of family and tribe provide them with all they need. The desire to be free keeps them from establishing permanent settlements, after all, they can find all that they need under the sun and moon. Food, clothing, and shelter are abundant to those who know where to look. Most “civilized” folk don’t understand these people. Many epithets exist for them: vagrants, savages, and brutes. Most commonly, however, they are known as barbarians. Barbarian is a major cultural template, which can be applied to any character hailing from a society of nomadic (or semi-nomadic) tribes. Barbarians tend to be rugged individuals who are steadfastly self-sufficient. The role of family and tribe (or clan) is key to barbarians. In most barbarian cultures, the entire village consists of a single tribe. Restriction: Illiteracy – Barbarian culture relies on oral storytelling to pass on their history and traditions, not writing. As a result, they do not have a script associated with their language, and cannot read the scripts of other cultures without spending skill points on such. Barbarians may spend 2 skill points at any time to overcome this restriction. Level..............Trait 1....................+2 on Survival Checks 2....................Rage 1/day 3....................Constitution +1 4....................Fast movement +10 feet 5....................Barbarian Affinity +2 6....................Uncanny Dodge 7....................+2 on Intimidate Checks 8....................Rage 2/day 9....................Strength +1 10..................Damage Reduction 1/- 11..................Barbarian Affinity +4 12..................Greater Rage 13..................+2 on Handle Animal 14..................Rage 3/day 15..................Wisdom +1 16..................Indomitable will 17..................Barbarian Affinity +6 18..................Tireless Rage 19..................+2 on Jump 20..................Mighty Rage |
| Pystian04-15-04, 04:22 AM | That's a really creative use of the system. I suspect you'll only see Fighter and Ranger Barbarians, but if that represents the culture well, then I guess it's a good idea. |
| RoastSlinky04-15-04, 05:32 AM | That's a very cool idea... you know, I could see a Priestly cultural bloodline to replace the cleric in my game... I never thought that it represented real world priests very well, and it would allow anyone to be a priest, instead of being class-dependent. |
| Pystian04-15-04, 05:55 AM | I had been thinking that the Sorceror made more sense as a template, but with the new bloodline system, I think I have a more logical option. The only problem is, you can't turn everything into a bloodline... |
| Alkaline04-15-04, 11:45 AM | This would complement the "Generic Class" system very well. |
| Orcboss04-15-04, 03:36 PM | I really like this, DragonWatcher. I'm wondering if I could do a variation of this for regions in my campaign world. I liked the idea of regional feats, but I didn't think they were enough. This might just fit the bill. Good work. |
| Aurotuli04-17-04, 03:37 AM | I rewrote your idea to get a better idea of how it might work out. Minor Moder Major 01 +2 Survival 02 +2 Survival Rage 1/day 03 Con +1 04 +2 Survival Rage 1/day Fast (+10 ft) 05 Bbn Affinity +2 06 Con +1 Uncanny Dodge 07 +2 Intimidate 08 Rage 1/day Fast (+10 ft) Rage 2/day 09 Str +1 10 Bbn Afnty +2 DR 1/- 11 Bbn Affinity +4 12 Con +1 Uncanny Dodge Greater Rage 13 +2 Handle Animal 14 +2 Intimidate Rage 3/day 15 Wis +1 16 Fast (+10 ft) Rage 2/day Indomitable Will 17 Bbn Affinity +6 18 Str +1 Tireless Rage 19 Jump +2 20 Bbn Afnty +2 DR 1/- Mighty Rage All in all, I really really like this idea, and I will likely implement it in my own campaigns. A character that wants a slight Bbn flavor for their character (to show rearing by a barbaric people, for instance) can simply add Minor Culture to their PC. If they want to show that they are particularly strong in their culture, then I would allow a Moderate Culture. A Major culture is for those who are paragons of their culture: very few and far between, but all the more dangerous for their unexpected abilities. When that wildshaped Drd 8 suddenly rages you know you have problems. :) I think I will make a distinction, however. I can see doing this for class flavor (adding a little bbn to a drd, as demonstrated above), but I can also see using this to add cultural flavor (adding urban style to a ranger, adding sailing traits to a fighter, etc). That said, I think I would create and allow use of both. I can see doing this for every general culture: cosmopolitan for the urbanites, nomadic for the wilderness wanderers, caravan for tradesmen who travel great distances, high seas for sailors and those living near/in ports, etc. I can even see varying this slightly by country. Cosmopolitan of land A receiving slight differences in skills / specials / etc than the same culture in land B. I can also see doing this for every major class (no need to list them). I would never allow a person with a major class flavor to also take levels in the equivalent class. A person with Bbn culture (likely a Ftr leader of such a tribe or a Drd / Clr Shaman type) would not be allowed to take levels in Bbn (much like an Enchanter cannot take levels in Necromancer (both are specialists wizards) or a Cleric [Pelor] cannot take levels in Cleric [Kord]: a cleric worships one or the other deity). I would allow a PC with a minor class flavor to take levels in the class, but I'm not yet decided about moderate class flavor. Hmm, thinking more on the matter, I rather like the idea of each of the classes being made into a class flavor (in the bloodline method). The bonus would be gaining a few minor traits / specials of a class without gaining the HD, BAB, saves, skill pts, etc. A rogue, for instance, was raised in the underworld (as a street rat, 'in' a mafia-style Family, etc). He gains bonuses to Gather Info (contacts), Sneak Attack, evasion, but little else (as a minor culture). With more advanced culture comes more sneak attack, uncanndy dodge, trap sense, etc. Hmm. Bard (raised with a gypsy-style group, in/near a bardic college, etc), Cleric (raised in a temple, etc), Druid (raised in/near a druid settlement, etc), Fighter (raised in a mercenary company, raised near an academy, raised in a family with a long tradition of warriors, etc), Monk (raised in/near a monestary, must be w/n 1 step of Lawful, etc), Paladin (raised in/near a temple with a guard of such, must be w/n 1 step of LG, etc), Ranger (raised in a frontier town, raised by a wilderness hermit-type, raised by wolves :P, etc), Rogue (already described above), Sorcerer (I would use a standard bloodline, replacing the Skill and ability boosts with spell-casting levels as a Sor: thus 7 levels of casting by Lv 19 for a major bloodline; 4 lvs for a moder, 2 lvls for a minor), Wizard (raised in/near a Wizard's tower or college, etc). All classes, as can be seen, have possibility. I will write out the results by tomorrow or the day after. If anyone is interested I will post (except for the self-explanatory Sorcerer, of course! ) So in the end we have bloodlines, cultures, and class flavors. I can just imagine a campaign where all three were allowed. Can you imagine a campaign where the only classes were Warrior, Expert, Noble, Adept, and Priest (a variation of the Generic classes) - but that also used major bloodlines / major cultures, and major class flavors? Sounds interesting. I'll play the Expert with a major Fey bloodline, a major Rogue class flavor, and a major nomadic culture! He'll have to take the equivalent of nine level adjustments (making him no more than a Xpt 11 at Lv 20), but with the bonuses gained it might just be worth it! :D Of course, I suppose I could also be the Priest with the major celestial bloodline, major Paladin flavor, and major cosmopolitan culture. Depending on whether I was LN or NG I would be either the stern authoritarian church patriarch / leader who played hard-core politics with the nobles and merchants princes or the benevolent and affluent miracle worker (healing via lay on hands and spontaneous cures, using contacts to see to the needs of those in need, etc). Either could be quite interesting. |
| DragonWatcher04-18-04, 04:33 PM | Y'all know, when I posted this, I expected the flames that I would be getting from people about "overpowered characters" and "unbalancing the game". However, it was my feeling that if anyone allowed Bloodlines into their game at all, this would not be any more unbalancing than any other Bloodline. So, I'm grateful to see that you guys liked the idea. :D I didn't really consider that this, in conjunction with Generic Classes, could replace the standard classes from the game. Likely that was because of how unimpressed I was with the generic classes in general. However, since Alkaline mentioned it, I've been giving serious consideration to allowing that exact thing in my game. Thanks for the idea. I don't believe that you need to use the generic class system to use this option, however. As Aurotuli said, though, if you wanted to make up "Class Flavors" for each class, I wouldn't allow anyone with a particular "Class Flavor" take levels in that class. This is almost like a "lite" version of a class. As though someone was influenced by a class, without actually joining the class. Also, in either case, once someone takes this option, whether as a Cultural Template, Class Flavor, or Bloodline, the decision is final. What I mean by this is, unlike classes, where you can multi-class, I would not allow anyone to take both a fighter and wizard Class Flavor. In that respect, this could almost replace multiclassing as a means of making a versitile character. If the player decides that they don't want to be influenced by the Cultural Template, or Class Flavor anymore, they have the same option that they do with Bloodlines... just stop taking the levels in it, but they will then suffer the penalties associated with it. Breaking the mold that you grew up believing is not easy or without cost. Anyhow, thanks so much for the positive feedback here. I encourage you to come up with other Cultural Templates, and post them here. Aurotuli, I would like to see what you come up with for a Cosmopolitan template. I will also try to post some more as I get a chance. :D |
| Wil_Hyral04-18-04, 05:20 PM | I've never said this to any idea on the WotC forums: This kicks ass. First of all, I disagree with the barbarian as the sole example of a culture instead of a class. But it's the clearest one, isn't it? Druids are just a "Celtic" cleric so to speak, and Rangers are sort of just "celtic" fighters too, in mythological simple aspect. Here's the problem I came across (because I had this exact same thought a while ago, but I didn't 'integrate' it as well as you have). Culture is the excused trait of a character in D&D. We have dozens of core classes (in various other books, not just the PhB), hundreds of PrCs, and now bloodlines. Those all are just reflections of culture, but it's nonsensical in a logical way to use culture like that. My idea was this: in a very metalurgy-based culture, would it not make sense that wizards have begun to practice without some arcane spell failure? I mean they're always used to wearing metal for whatever reason in this "metal-land," so after a while they would (in game terms) take some PrC that relieves ASF. Well, yeah... okay. That's sorta lame though, because someone in a totally opposite setting could also take that PrC - it's called "Spellsword." The reason I like the cultural idea is it adds a third dimension to our two-dimensional (or two-and-a-half-dimensional) characters. Right now, we have two dimensional - race, and class. Of course there's the half dimension that can be called template (and the UA making 2+3/4s with bloodline.) I've always wanted to go Race, Culture, Class. Human Celtic Fighter would be Human Ranger. Elven Nordic Cleric would be a Elven Cleric of (probably) Freyja. If we did integrate Culture, though, it could work out to just being... Human celtic fighter. Celtic would be say, rejection of heavy, or medium armor and embrace mild druid magic. (In a mythological sense. In a historical sense, I'd say they would reject law too, but you know..) Anyway, D&D lacks the culture aspect and just chalks it in with either favored classes or access to certain classes, and I think it should be a dimension before class even comes up. Glad you proposed this :) |
| Aman the Rejected04-20-04, 11:54 AM | I used to think that the key to making the classes more generic and still having the flavor of the game was to make everything a point-buy system, but that ended in utter failure. This idea, cultural, class, whatever 'bloodlines' is probably the KEY idea to get me back into D&D 3.x. Your idea, DragonWatcher, and your supplement, Aurotuli, defines exactly what I wanted the system to be like; only, I didn't know it when I first started with it. I would be more than willing to assist you guys or gals in developing this further, I would love to implement it in my own releases for the system ... would you guys be up for OGLing these mechanics?! AtR |
| DragonWatcher04-20-04, 11:14 PM | This idea, cultural, class, whatever 'bloodlines' is probably the KEY idea to get me back into D&D 3.x. I don't think that I have ever received such a compliment about anything that I have 'house-ruled' (and that includes from my players). Thank you very much. I would be more than willing to assist you guys or gals in developing this further, I would love to implement it in my own releases for the system ... would you guys be up for OGLing these mechanics?! Well, I can't speak for Aurotuli, but (for the record) I'm a guy. As for OGLing these mechanics... As I understand it (and I don't claim to have a perfect understanding), the mechanics are just the Bloodline mechanics that were released in UA, which is all OGL. While I'm happy to take credit for my interpretive twist on these mechanics, anyone could use the mechanics themselves in any way they see fit. So... I would guess that it's already OGL. That said, if you are actually publishing 3rd party material for sale, and would like assistance on refining different Cultures for this purpose, I would be happy to submit any material that you would like. Heck... even if you're not publishing, but would just like some additional ideas, I would be happy to assist as time allows. I will be posting more cultures on this thread in the near future. So if you're interested, keep monitoring. :D |
| Aman the Rejected04-21-04, 01:33 PM | Well, for me, it was always a bind to try and rework classes for the settings I ran. Then prestige classes came along, and it seemed only a matter of work to get those set up correctly for the players; however, two problems arose: they couldn't start playing the concept immediately and if we were midswing and they decided they wanted another prestige class or concept, they were usually ill-equipped to move into that concept without another few levels of multiclassing. Now a player can tell me: I want a character that believes in Fate and not necessarily the Goddess of Fate (although he pays lip service). I want the character to be charismatic and to own a bar, eventually. I want to cast a few mind compulsion spells, and be good at not being seen while firing my crossbow in combat. Oh, and I'm not really into being a rogue or evil, but I would like to eventually take this Fate thing far enough that I become like a neutral assassin to those that deserve to die, if necessary, according to Fate. And I don't have to retool the bard class so that he doesn't have this Bardic Knowledge, but still feels on the same level as everyone else. He doesn't have to take a feat so that he can't be heard while he makes Bardic Music to inspire his comrades. He doesn't have to tool himself for some other bow-related prestige class to make his battle damage compare to the level of the wizard or the fighter in the party. He doesn't have to multiclass into rogue to get ready to be a retooled non-evil assassin. Finally, I don't feel pressured to make him take the Leadership Feat to give him all of his loyal employees when combat feats might be more appealing to him. I know that there are possibly tons of solutions that many people on these boards could answer, and that I could do that for each individual request. But now, after we get these done, I can say: Okay, you're going to take the Generic Warrior Class, with a Sorcererous Bloodline (maybe Fate related?) of your choosing, minor, or a Wizard School Organization, minor. That will allow you a few spells and still allow you to be effective with your bow. If you decide to become better at the spell casting later on, you can start taking Generic Spellcaster. You're going to take a Cosmopolitan Culture Line, intermediate, allowing you to open your bar earlier than from just amassing wealth but not requiring you to be a prince or a merchant, per se. Your Profession Line could be Proprieter, if you want more for your bar, or maybe Bowman, if you really want to be more of a sniper. Finally, when you've developed your Fate Assassins organization, or met them in-game, you can take your Prestige Organization Line, major, as that will then be your focus, allowing you to train in and take some Assassin Feats as they train you. Or something like that. Ideas are finally bubbling around again, without feeling like I have to tool through every prestige class anymore. For me, at least, this is a good tool to establish what I want in the game. For others, I could see this as being more tedious or frustrating than multi-classing and prestige classes, but I find it to be ... liberating :) For me, at least, playing your concept from the beginning is a much more rewarding experience. So, the kinds of Lines I could see are: Bloodline, Culture, Profession (converted classes), Organization, and Organization, Prestige. I would use the Generic Classes, or develop 20 Level Paragon Classes if necessary. AtR |
| Aman the Rejected04-23-04, 12:23 PM | In the system I'm developing based off of this idea, I'm using the generic classes. I would like to note that eventually there should be multiple Professions that fall under one base class, e.g., rogues can be thieves, scoundrels, etc.; for now, though, I will simply use the base class as an example until I've gotten better at this, and have developed more of them. Rogue Profession (first half): _________Minor_________Moder_________Maj or 01__________________________________+2 Move Sil 02____________________+2 Move Sil_____Snk Attk +1d6 03__________________________________Dex +1 04_______+2 Move Sil____Snk Attk +1d6___Evasion 05__________________________________Rog Affinity +2 06____________________Dex +1 ________Trap Sns +1 07__________________________________+2 Hide 08_______Snk Attk +1d6__Evasion________Snk Attk +2d6 09__________________________________ Int +1 10____________________Rog Afnty +2____ Uncanny Dodge Say, for example, someone wanted to be a roguish spellcaster, but only wanted a Minor track in it? What would make the player think to themselves, before level 4, "I'm displaying Roguish qualities," without having to take feats? I think that something else needs to be added; say, +1 to certain roguish skills? Or some key ability available only to that Profession, like the ability to work on high level lock DCs? What do you guys think? AtR |
| DaTedinator04-23-04, 05:12 PM | Originally posted by Aurotuli I rewrote your idea to get a better idea of how it might work out. Minor Moder Major 01 +2 Survival 02 +2 Survival Rage 1/day 03 Con +1 04 +2 Survival Rage 1/day Fast (+10 ft) 05 Bbn Affinity +2 06 Con +1 Uncanny Dodge 07 +2 Intimidate 08 Rage 1/day Fast (+10 ft) Rage 2/day 09 Str +1 10 Bbn Afnty +2 DR 1/- 11 Bbn Affinity +4 12 Con +1 Uncanny Dodge Greater Rage 13 +2 Handle Animal 14 +2 Intimidate Rage 3/day 15 Wis +1 16 Fast (+10 ft) Rage 2/day Indomitable Will 17 Bbn Affinity +6 18 Str +1 Tireless Rage 19 Jump +2 20 Bbn Afnty +2 DR 1/- Mighty Rage All in all, I really really like this idea, and I will likely implement it in my own campaigns. A character that wants a slight Bbn flavor for their character (to show rearing by a barbaric people, for instance) can simply add Minor Culture to their PC. If they want to show that they are particularly strong in their culture, then I would allow a Moderate Culture. A Major culture is for those who are paragons of their culture: very few and far between, but all the more dangerous for their unexpected abilities. When that wildshaped Drd 8 suddenly rages you know you have problems. :) I think I will make a distinction, however. I can see doing this for class flavor (adding a little bbn to a drd, as demonstrated above), but I can also see using this to add cultural flavor (adding urban style to a ranger, adding sailing traits to a fighter, etc). That said, I think I would create and allow use of both. I can see doing this for every general culture: cosmopolitan for the urbanites, nomadic for the wilderness wanderers, caravan for tradesmen who travel great distances, high seas for sailors and those living near/in ports, etc. I can even see varying this slightly by country. Cosmopolitan of land A receiving slight differences in skills / specials / etc than the same culture in land B. I can also see doing this for every major class (no need to list them). I would never allow a person with a major class flavor to also take levels in the equivalent class. A person with Bbn culture (likely a Ftr leader of such a tribe or a Drd / Clr Shaman type) would not be allowed to take levels in Bbn (much like an Enchanter cannot take levels in Necromancer (both are specialists wizards) or a Cleric [Pelor] cannot take levels in Cleric [Kord]: a cleric worships one or the other deity). I would allow a PC with a minor class flavor to take levels in the class, but I'm not yet decided about moderate class flavor. Hmm, thinking more on the matter, I rather like the idea of each of the classes being made into a class flavor (in the bloodline method). The bonus would be gaining a few minor traits / specials of a class without gaining the HD, BAB, saves, skill pts, etc. A rogue, for instance, was raised in the underworld (as a street rat, 'in' a mafia-style Family, etc). He gains bonuses to Gather Info (contacts), Sneak Attack, evasion, but little else (as a minor culture). With more advanced culture comes more sneak attack, uncanndy dodge, trap sense, etc. Hmm. Bard (raised with a gypsy-style group, in/near a bardic college, etc), Cleric (raised in a temple, etc), Druid (raised in/near a druid settlement, etc), Fighter (raised in a mercenary company, raised near an academy, raised in a family with a long tradition of warriors, etc), Monk (raised in/near a monestary, must be w/n 1 step of Lawful, etc), Paladin (raised in/near a temple with a guard of such, must be w/n 1 step of LG, etc), Ranger (raised in a frontier town, raised by a wilderness hermit-type, raised by wolves :P, etc), Rogue (already described above), Sorcerer (I would use a standard bloodline, replacing the Skill and ability boosts with spell-casting levels as a Sor: thus 7 levels of casting by Lv 19 for a major bloodline; 4 lvs for a moder, 2 lvls for a minor), Wizard (raised in/near a Wizard's tower or college, etc). All classes, as can be seen, have possibility. I will write out the results by tomorrow or the day after. If anyone is interested I will post (except for the self-explanatory Sorcerer, of course! ) So in the end we have bloodlines, cultures, and class flavors. I can just imagine a campaign where all three were allowed. Can you imagine a campaign where the only classes were Warrior, Expert, Noble, Adept, and Priest (a variation of the Generic classes) - but that also used major bloodlines / major cultures, and major class flavors? Sounds interesting. I'll play the Expert with a major Fey bloodline, a major Rogue class flavor, and a major nomadic culture! He'll have to take the equivalent of nine level adjustments (making him no more than a Xpt 11 at Lv 20), but with the bonuses gained it might just be worth it! :D Of course, I suppose I could also be the Priest with the major celestial bloodline, major Paladin flavor, and major cosmopolitan culture. Depending on whether I was LN or NG I would be either the stern authoritarian church patriarch / leader who played hard-core politics with the nobles and merchants princes or the benevolent and affluent miracle worker (healing via lay on hands and spontaneous cures, using contacts to see to the needs of those in need, etc). Either could be quite interesting. Ok, first off, I want to say I read this and I absolutely agree, and it would be awesome. But, while I hate to rain on your parade, you have to remember that bloodline levels (and so, I'm guessing culture levels) do NOT count towards your character level. So your expert example would just have the abilities gained of an 11th level character. But of course, you might have known that already. If so, ignore me. :D |
| Cathon04-23-04, 05:48 PM | Hmm, this is an interesting way to portray background. The ways I've seen before for doing these sorts of things are 1st level regional based feats, or pseudo-racial bonuses. However, in those cases, you can't do too much because it all happens at 1st level and has to be balanced against characters who don't choose these things. And when applied to classes instead of just backgrounds, it really does allow for interesting backgrounds. I have a DMPC in one game that is currently on hiatus. He is a straight fighter who works as a temple guard, and is currently guarding a questing priestess. I've reflected his background by giving him a point in knowledge, religion, and having him specialize in a guard's weapon, the halberd. (And giving him a spiffy uniform). But I could also see giving him a minor Priestly classline, so he picks up some knowledge, some influence in priestly situations, and other such things over time. We actually have a fair amount of pseudo fit stuff in our group as it is pretty much heavy roleplayers (despite being all new people), I could see our bard archeologist having a scholarly classline, or our fighter with an interest in alchemy going some direction other than just a level in wizard here or there. The only really bothersome thing, is why would someone who is from a cultural background, but not immersed in it anymore be picking up stuff over time? Can someone with a barbarian affinity decide that they have more affinity towards city life these days? Still, I have an upcoming campaign that is historically based, with all humans, and I've been trying to figure out ways of portraying cultural differences. I'm going to have to consider this as a possible alternative to my current pseudo-race bonuses. |
| Aman the Rejected04-23-04, 07:04 PM | Cathon, good point. I can see problems developing if a roleplaying situation changed the focus of a character and the player wanting to stop being roguish or wizardly or cosmopolitan; he/she doesn't want to gain any more of that because it no longer fits the concept. Off the top of my head, I can think of some possible solutions, but note, they're raw. If you decide to not allow the power of a Bloodline/Culture/Profession to not change after choosing it, (once the player has chosen a minor Profession or major Culture, if he/she decides to change to something else, it would still be at that power level), then you could simply make them wait for the next ability to occur, and they would start from the beginning of the new B/C/P of his/her choosing, or At 3rd, 6th, or 12th level, whenever you'd be paying for a level of your B/C/P, and after you did so, you could choose then to stop advancing in it, and either switch to something more applicable, or stop altogether. At that time, if you switched, you could start any other at any power level but only at the level where you paid for your progression with a B/C/P classless level. You could pay in advance with classless or possibly Paragon levels for every chunk you wanted. One Level of Paragon would grant you the minor abilities of your Bloodline/Culture, and you could inherit them one at at time on the first five levels. At any time during the rest of the character's career, they can choose to focus on either that B/C/P again, or on another, and pay another level of Paragon for more level benefits. I know its raw and all, but those're the ideas I have. AtR |
| Aurotuli04-23-04, 10:37 PM | They do not continue to receive bonuses. The bloodline shows traits whose potential was already there - just not manifested. Upon reaching a certain level of skill They receive the bonuses due to those traits having finally manifested. Constant rise in experience has resulted in more and more situations where the trait might manifest itself - until finally it does manifest itself. A way to better manifest this nature, which I happen to use, is that all skills in the bloodline receive a +1 bonus at 1st level, a +2 bonus at 7th level, a +3 bonus at 13th level, and a +4 bonus at 19th level. Yes, this is very slightly stronger than the 'typical' bloodline, but then how realistic is it to suddenly gain a +2 bonus to a skill at 19th level. A gradual increase in all skills is better IMHO. As to ending the bonuses recevied: that cannot occur with a bloodline. With a culture or class flavor? Hmm, now we need to create a mechanic to work this out. As I am writing this as I think please understand that I might contradict myself before I finish writing, and that patterns / ideas stated later are likely considered superior to those stated earlier which might contradict it. I would allow a fall of one degree (major to intermediate, intermediate to minor), upon reaching the level where one typically pays the price: lv 3, 6, 12. At level 3 a PC with a major culture decides that the character is no longer as intensively devoted to the ways, etc of their culture. They fall to intermediate culture, and the XP cost that typically needs to be paid by level 3 is differed to level 6. Note that the PC's character no longer receives any cultural bonuse until level 6 due to already having amassed the cultural bonuses of a 6th level intermediately cultured character. The character has gained a degree of uncertainty regarding their culture, and they no longer practice its traits as strongly as before - resulting in a stagnation in the gaining of traits. At level six the character can decide whether to continue as a an intermediate culture - and begin receiving bonuses again at level 8, or decrease to a minor culture. Should they choose the latter they receive no bonuses until after level 12. They cannot choose to be less than a minor culture as it represents, for them, a lingering trace of their original heritage. So long as they have not received bonuses beyond the lesser culture's range they can at any time choose to drop to that level of culture - and thus reduce their XP cost. If you play with a 'level' worth of XP paid by the required level, then they make the decision at the levels where payment is due (3,6,12). If you play in the manner I describe below (speaking regarding Exp 11 from my prev post), then the decision can be made at any time previous to receiving the first bonus beyond the range of the desired level of culture / class flavor. Thus a cultured character that has not yet received Special 3 can choose to fall to a minor culture. A simialar character that has received Special 3 has already transcended the bounds of minor culture. They were devoted to that way of life and its practices and beliefs for so long that it is forever a part of them - rather like the phrase: 'You can take the tiger out of the jungle, but you cannot take the jungle out of the tiger.' It is too deeply a part of them to be fully lost. They are more than mere minor cultured, and they must continue at least as far as intermediate culture (potentially farther if they began as a major culture). A major cultured PC likewise cannot fall to an intermediate cultured state after having received / accepted Affinity +4. They have transcended mere intermediate culture and will continue on thier path till the end. They may have left the lands and peoples of their culture. They may have not been emersed in it for many years. Despite this it is so much a part of them, and its traits are so well known to them, that they are unable not to manifest those traits once they have reached such a level of experience as to be able to do so. I would believe that class flavor works in a similar manner. They can fall to a lower state at any time so long as they have not already accepted a bonus that is beyond the best the lower state can achieve. Upon 'falling' they do not receive any further bonuses until they their levels have caught up with the specials they have already gained. I would even allow a character to return to the higher state if they have not gone past more than 1 bonus they would have received had they not fallen. Thus a major class flavor falls to intermediate at level 5. Before level 7 he can choose to return to the path, but upon gaining level 7 if he does not choose to return it is forever lost to him - he has strayed too far from the ways of the higher class flavor. If an intermediate culture PC at level 5 chooses to fall to minor, s/he has until level 8 to choose to return to the higher path. Upon gaining level 8 if he does not choose to return to the higher path it is forever lost. A culture / class flavor / (maybe bloodline) can only be removed if the character has not received the first bonus of the bloodline (before lv 4 for minor, before lv 2 for intermediate). Major cultures / class-flavors receive bonuses from first level and so can never be fully lost - always at least a trace (minor) remains (as the minimum they can possibly reduce to). |
| Aurotuli04-23-04, 11:14 PM | Now, to remark on other comments: Yes, I am aware that the character I created above is an 11th level character, but to prevent receiving a 60% penalty to all XP received prior to gaining 12th level (and potentially even after for a short time) the character must have taken nine quasi-LAs: false levels that do not confer hit points, saves, bab, skill pts, etc. A major bloodline requires taking 3 psuedo levels by level 12 (one by 3, one by 6, one by 12). Granted, I don't play bloodlines in exactly that way due to the poor wording of the mechanic. As I recall the text states that a level may be taken at any time, meaning it is possible to gain all three initially instead of taking levels 2, 3, and 4. That is a far far lower expedenture of XP than each at the level just before it is absulutely due (2, 5, and 11). Since the XP penalty is removed once the level is gained I feel that a loss of 20% of XP received should not be the upper limit of the requirement (for a major bloodline, culture, etc). (Again there is poor wording, for it does not state one way or the other whether the XP lost due to the penalty is used to pay off the level or not.) Yet I had calculated it and found that if the total needed XP (assuming levels 2, 5, 11) is gradually lost over all 12 levels that an 18% constant loss of XP would be necessary to prevent the 20% penalty when taking a major bloodline. I decided less than this (15%) would be more fair. And I determined the XP needs of the other levels. 15% lost up till level 6 (for an intermediate bloodline) is equivalent to about a 5% constant loss of XP till level 12 is reached. The minor bloodline is a mere 1% of XP loss by level 12 (15% of XP up till level 3, spread out over 12 levels). Thus I allow an XP penalty rather than a level penalty. (PCs can choose to take a harsher hit (up to 15 %) so as to pay off faster, but as the default lowest (1%, 5%, 15%) is the best available most will go along with those percentages). In this manner the major bloodline PC takes a hit in XP that hurts (15%), but even still does not result in falling a full level behind even by level 12 (when the XP penalty is lost). The major bloodline PC needs 15% more XP to gain level 12: 75,900 XP. That is less than the 78,000 XP needed to advance to level 13, so he is almost a full level behind the rest of the party. However, as with the rest of the party, he only needs 12,000 XP to advance to level 13, the same as those without a major bloodline / culture / etc. That is the advantage of bloodlines/etc over LA. Althouth with the (inspired) idea of buying off LA (found in the UA), perhaps there is less difference - other than the higher (multiple levels worth) cost in XP for level adjustments. Now, to continue speaking about the level 11 Expert above: From the XP perspective, the character has had to give up almost half his XP (45%) to keep 3 major sets of traits - less than might be expected of the level system, but still enough that the rest of the party (if he is in one) would be three levels ahead of him at the time he gains his 12th level (~98 XP, while he is at 66K XP). Of course, unlike LA characters, after gaining 12th level he would only need 12000 XP to gain level 13 - as normal - despite having needed to gain ~16K XP to advance to level 12. LA'ed characters are forever needing higher and higher XP for higher levels - even once the traits that gained them the level penalty are no longer worthy of such a sacrifice of XP. Thus the idea of buying off LA found in the UA. |
| JongWK04-28-04, 10:43 AM | First things first, Bloodlines as a Cultural Background is a brilliant idea, especially when combined with Generic Classes. Congrats. I'm not so hot on using them to replace most classes (barbarian anda few others might be logical, though), but as to emulate regions and/or civilization (i.e., Egyptian, Roman, Celt, Hun, Cormyrean, Calishite). I know I'm deviating from topic, but what about paragon classes for different civilizations and cultures? (Yeah, I'm something of a Sid Meier fan ;) ) |
| TwinBahamut04-28-04, 11:19 AM | I also have to say that Cultural Bloodlines are a good idea. A very good idea. It actually is giving me quite a lot of inspiration for my homebrew. I am not so sure about mixing it with generic classes and making class-based bloodline, but the cultural idea is great. Some ideas on differentiating between Minor, Intermediate, and Major bloodlines: Minor cultural bloodlines would reflect someone who is part of the culture, but perhaps not so heavily saturated in it. An example would be for a warrior nomad bloodline, this would be the nomads who tend to dwell close to more settled lands and have had other cultural elements begin to dilute their own culture. Intermediate bloodlines would be for the standard integrated member of a culture. With the above example, it would be a member of a traditional nomadic clan. Major bloodlines would represent a member of a specific bloodline, such as being part of a specific significant family, or having a heroic ancestor. Again with the above example, this would be the nomad descended from a long line of great hunters and warriors. Does that all make sense? |
| Temmogen04-29-04, 09:29 AM | That is possibly the best idea I have seen in a while. I was having trouble justifying my psionic bloodlines, but this idea just filled up my idea reservoir. Wow, thanks guys. I was thinking about the variant classes from Unearthed arcana, and applying the Rouge bloodline to the Urban Ranger variant. Of course the possibilities are endless... :bow: |
| Orcboss04-29-04, 09:36 AM | Originally posted by Temmogen I was having trouble justifying my psionic bloodlines, but this idea just filled up my idea reservoir. I'd like to see what you come up with if you have time to post some of them here. Were you looking at bloodlines based on classes, races, or a cultures? |
| Temmogen04-29-04, 12:03 PM | Originally posted by Orcboss Were you looking at bloodlines based on classes, races, or a cultures? Cultural Bloodline, with the PC being able to manifest discipline powers as part of the bloodline. I cant post it right now(I'm at work), however I'll post it on the UA board as soon as I get home tonight. |
| Temmogen04-30-04, 12:43 PM | Originally posted by Orcboss I'd like to see what you come up with if you have time to post some of them here. Were you looking at bloodlines based on classes, races, or a cultures? Keep in mind I have assigned each set of discipline powers to a different family line. Major BL 1st Wild Talent/Manifest one 1st lvl discipline power 2nd Choose any one Psionic skill as a class skill 3rd Psionic Talent/Manifesst one 2nd lvl discipline power 4th +1 Intelligence 5th Bonus Psionic feat/Manifest 3rd lvl discpline pwr 6th Choose Psi skill as class skill 7th Bonus Psi feat/Manifest 4th lvl discipline pwr 8th + intelligence It reapeats the same sequence all the way to 20th Hope thats what you're lookin for OrcBoss...Enjoy!! |
| Orcboss04-30-04, 02:16 PM | Originally posted by Temmogen Keep in mind I have assigned each set of discipline powers to a different family line. Looks simple enough. Just a couple of questions. When you have psi-feat/power, do you get both or one of the two? If one of the two, I assume that's based on the family. Giving an INT bonus each time the stat raise comes up seems like it might be too much. IIRC, the bloodlines in UA have raises to different stats each time. What would you thing about varying it between INT, WIS, and CHA or something like that? |
| Temmogen04-30-04, 02:47 PM | Originally posted by Orcboss Looks simple enough. Just a couple of questions. When you have psi-feat/power, do you get both or one of the two? If one of the two, I assume that's based on the family. Giving an INT bonus each time the stat raise comes up seems like it might be too much. IIRC, the bloodlines in UA have raises to different stats each time. What would you thing about varying it between INT, WIS, and CHA or something like that? You get the Bonus Psi feat AND the Discipline power at the same time. I give the Int bonus at each level in my game. Feel free to change to meet your needs. This is just what I have laid out for my homebrew. Hope that helps.... |
| Asta Kask05-06-04, 04:25 AM | This is a very interesting idea. I've been toying with cultural templates as well, but this... I can see... hmm... *wanders of muttering to himself* |
| Temmogen05-06-04, 04:28 PM | Originally posted by Asta Kask This is a very interesting idea. I've been toying with cultural templates as well, but this... I can see... hmm... *wanders of muttering to himself* Dont mutter, just write it down. This one got me thinking so much, I put it all down. When I was done I had 7 new Cultural Backgroud Templates designed from the bloodline concept. Can I just say it again.....WOW, this is really a good idea! :bow: I am humbled before a master...Dragon Watcher... |
| DragonWatcher05-07-04, 07:18 PM | Originally posted by Temmogen Dont mutter, just write it down. This one got me thinking so much, I put it all down. When I was done I had 7 new Cultural Backgroud Templates designed from the bloodline concept. Can I just say it again.....WOW, this is really a good idea! :bow: I am humbled before a master...Dragon Watcher... Thank you very much. I'm sorry that I haven't been able to post more about this (as in more Cultures), but school has had me running ragged. Once my finals are done... I will post more for those who care. Until then, please share the cultures that any of you might have come up with. :D |
| clichekiller05-07-04, 11:21 PM | I like. It definitely would fit your concept. |
| TheBardicTraveller05-18-04, 02:49 PM | Originally posted by Aman the Rejected I can see problems developing if a roleplaying situation changed the focus of a character and the player wanting to stop being roguish or wizardly or cosmopolitan; he/she doesn't want to gain any more of that because it no longer fits the concept. It's only an idea but.. why not create a list of Abilities that characters may choose everytime they gain a level. You would have to work out a system for BaB & Saves, but it would allow a player to customise his/her character to the fullest. The abilities on the list would include requirements though. Like: "5th level Arcane Magic Prerequirements: 4th level Arcane Magic & Intelligence 14+ Benefit: you can cast Arcana Spells as a level 5 wizard" Characters would still gains skills, feats and ability score increasments as normal. I hope i made my idea clear enough. If not, just ask me for more info |
| Nightwhisper05-22-04, 06:23 PM | Originally posted by Aurotuli I would allow a fall of one degree (major to intermediate, intermediate to minor), upon reaching the level where one typically pays the price: lv 3, 6, 12. This has a small problem: if somebody wants just the abilities of the minor culture, they can say they'll be a major, and when they have accumulated enough levels to get the abilities of the minor bloodline, drop it to minor. |
| DragonWatcher05-24-04, 07:24 PM | Originally posted by Nightwhisper This has a small problem: if somebody wants just the abilities of the minor culture, they can say they'll be a major, and when they have accumulated enough levels to get the abilities of the minor bloodline, drop it to minor. I agree with this. For this reason I don't allow people to drop their culture level. Originally, I wasn't even going to let them choose the level to which their culture affected them. I was simply going to make an executive decision, stating whether a culture was minor, medium, or major. At that point, if a character wanted to choose a given culture for their character, they had to take it at the rating specified. However, previous posts on this thread convinced me that it would be good to leave that option open to players. To me, once you choose how much of an impact your culture has on your character, you're stuck with it. If you choose to have a Major Barbaric culture, then your character is HEAVILY influenced by his culture and is stuck with that choice. Down the road, when it comes time to burn your level to contine gaining your cultural bonuses, you can always opt to simply not spend the level. This would constitute the character actively choosing to act against his cultural tendencies. Doing this gains you a 20% penalty to XP, but going against your culture is not easy. For those with a major Culture, this is truly not easy, and they could potentially end up with a 40% penalty if they refused to spend two levels. For this reason, players should be cautioned to consider carefully the ramifications that choosing their culture would have on their character. :) |
| Aman the Rejected05-24-04, 07:35 PM | Basically, you're saying (I think), that this decision is just like the decision as to what race, gender, and history you're character is going to have: defining and irrevocable except through extreme circumstances proposed by the DM and player in conjunction. If so, I totally agree. Besides, I've recently found that Midnight does this for its characters as well, and makes it an integral part of the game. And it works, too. Because the premise for Midnight is: you're a Hero, galdurnit, and Heroes aren't random, they're chosen. The chosen have more abilities than others, plain and simple. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. AtR |
| DragonWatcher05-24-04, 10:29 PM | Originally posted by Aman the Rejected Besides, I've recently found that Midnight does this for its characters as well, and makes it an integral part of the game. And it works, too. Aman, are you saying that Midnight uses a Cultural Template idea, or just that it makes choices made during character creation permanent unless a decision is made to change it by the GM and Player? Uh... or something else entirely? I've never seen Midnight, but perhaps I'll have to check it out. :) |
| Aman the Rejected05-25-04, 11:55 AM | It uses a Cultural Template-ish idea, more of a standard Bloodline really, but it mixes stat boosts, supernatural abilities and skill boosts without the need to trade in experience. They're called Heroic Paths, and they are chosen at the beginning with no ability to remove or change them later. But, of course, they're without penalty. I haven't checked to see if the core classes are balanced against having a Heroic Path or not though. AtR |
| The Green Man05-25-04, 01:37 PM | What a great thread this is! I'm running a campaign that has distinct cultures - several native american-like cultures and a couple of asian cultures primarily (PCs are restricted to more 'primitive' cultures, while NPC races or less primitive, city dwelling races and cultures that generally oppress the more primitive cultures). I'll almost certainly use the cultural bloodline templates, but since every culture will have a template, I won't 'charge' the PCs for having it (if everyone has a cultural template, it balances out). I'll probably make a moderate progression for every culture. I also want to make an Ancestral template - this is very much in the flavor of my game, and will allow PCs who wish to have a powerful connection to their ancestry and thus be granted powers through it. The PCs will be able to choose the level of the bloodline and 'pay' for it normally. Something else that I want to look into really hard when I get home is the concept that was recently raised about a 'secondary pathway'. I'd like to put together a whole list of skills, feats, and abilities (balanced by level) that a PC can choose from. A PC will choose the level of secondary pathway bloodline and pay for it normally, but it would allow him to pick and choose which ability he received at which level. So if I wanted my Fighter to be rouguish, I would choose appropriate rogue-like feats and abilities. Similarly, if I wanted my rogue to have just a taste of spellcasting (sorcery) or psionics I would again choose the appropriate powers from the list. These secondary pathways would be most effective when a character focussed on one area (like a roguish pathway) but it would allow a character to change the focus of their pathway if they decided after several roguish powers that they wanted to explore a psionic pathway. Anyway - those are my thoughts... thanks to everyone who contributed and made them possible! -The Green Man |
| Ka'loss05-28-04, 03:34 PM | Very nice work guys, well done. This may have solved a problem for me that came up today - as i've decided to run an upcoming campaign in PS. I was wondering how to deal with faction Presitge class or what not - this might be a good way of working it. I've also done some work on a couple of feats for my campaign (Forsaker magic and touched by magic), that are in the style of Vow of Poverty - all of theses may be better off as culture bloodlines - maybe - i'll have to work on them a bit Good work again Kal |
| DragonWatcher06-05-04, 11:03 PM | Originally posted by The Green Man These secondary pathways would be most effective when a character focussed on one area (like a roguish pathway) but it would allow a character to change the focus of their pathway if they decided after several roguish powers that they wanted to explore a psionic pathway. -The Green Man Green Man, Far beit for me to tell you how to run your game... after all it is your game. However, I would caution you about using the secondary pathway idea and allowing players to swap secondary pathways. This just seems ripe for player abuse, as they are essentially getting a good deal for free out of the package. While I don't think that secondary pathways are a bad idea... in fact I am using a variant of them in my new campaign setting along with my original Cultural Templates, I just think that allowing a character to take a Core Class, Culture, and Secondary Pathway are already a powerful combination. If you allow them to switch secondary pathways at no cost, it can quickly throw the game far out of balance. If anything, I might recommend an additional XP cost, or even Level cost to swap a secondary pathway. In my current game, I am using the following combination: 1. A variation of the Generic Class System 2. Cultural Templates 3. A variation of Secondary Pathways Once your generic class is selected, it cannot be changed. Only your secondary pathway can change. Also, at levels where all three options will give your character a bonus... you only get to pick 2 out of 3 (ie: you can take the benefit from class and culture, or culture and pathway, or class and pathway, but not all three). This system creates characters that are in between normal characters and gestalt characters in the way of power, and they are certainly more versatile than a normal D&D character. I guess that a lot is possible using these options, just be careful when you open Pandora's box that you only let out what you're ready to handle. In my experience, players are almost always open to adding new stuff to their characters, but if it doesn't work out right, they're not so accomodating about letting you take it away. Cheers and good luck! |
| The Green Man06-08-04, 10:51 AM | I always welcome criticism, so no need to worry there. It's been a long time since I've been happy running a game without house rules (the goal of using them is to make the experience better for DM and player alike), so I'm always tweaking things (or rewriting large parts of a game as I did with the Wheel of Time RPG that WotC published.) That said - you raised some good points. I'm not worried about my players abusing rules such as these though - my players know my style and that I like to run a game that focusses on character development and storyline and that I am not a min/maxer (in fact, I don't have any problem 'equalizing' a situation or rule that a player is unfairly exploiting to the point of it being unbalancing or even just cheesy). I wasn't going to give them a secondary pathway for free (I'm pretty sure I said that I'd charge as normal in my original message). Also - I was thinking of making the secondary pathways generic (so they could pick from a whole list of skills and or abilities) but keep the Core Classes as they are. This seems to be the exact opposite of what you've done, where you have a generic Core Class, but specific secondary pathways. I would be interested in hearing more on how how generic classes and secondary pathways are designeed. The cultural templates that I am considering (actually, now I am considering racial templates since a homebrew world I'm designing strongly encourages PCs to play non-conventional humanoid races as PCs) would be 'minor' and only add a little flair or distinction to each group. Nothing that would grant an overpowering advantage at all from the racial/cultural templates - just minor bonuses (plus, since all PCs and NPSs would have them, these small bonuses balance out). My goal for introducing the templates isn't to make the PCs much more powerful... it's to add versatility and individuality to their characters. I've never liked the fact that 10th or 15th level characters of the same class (gear aside) are much more similar than they are different. They are their class - not individual people. - The Green Man |
| Gingalin06-15-04, 10:35 AM | I just wanted to say this is probably the most helpful thread I have run across on the boards. This solves a lot of cultural integration problems I had before. Thank you for the interpretation DragonWatcher. |
| roll8dn06-15-04, 05:29 PM | :bow: I think this is the best culture role-play mechanic I've seen. :bow: One of the ideas that I would like to see implemented is a background (class) and a culture (bloodline). For example: the (minor) desert culture would enable a +2 to survival traits in that terrain, plus a +2 CON bonus eventually, to represent the hardiness of the people who live there, along with a +4 to diplomacy checks, to represent the fact that such a culture survives by being friendly to merchants that roll through, a -2 to swim checks, because there is little open water in the desert, and a +2 bonus against desert-dwelling creatures that is similar to a Ranger's Favored Enemy. So, the mechanic would look like this: Minor Culture Bloodline (Desert) Level 1 Culture: +2 survival check bonus (desert terrain only), -2 swim check penalty Level 5 Culture: +1 CON bonus Level 10 Culture: +4 Diplomacy check bonus Level 15 Culture: +1 CON bonus Level 20 Culture: +2 Favored Enemy (desert-dwelling creatures only) To this, one adds one's class levels, using the bloodline rules from UA. I'd be happy to hear feedback on this. Do I have the right idea, and if not, what might make this better? Keep up the good work. |
| Covert_Spirit06-15-04, 05:53 PM | For the record, I've read only about half a page of this thread (short on time), but I must say, it's a great idea. In fact, you may have inspired me to develop a new class system based on this (which I may playtet on the Real Adventures forum, if possible). |
| Temmogen06-22-04, 02:35 PM | I have posted here, for your use, my result of the ideas generated by this thread. Too some of you it may smack of munchkinism, so be it. I generated these for use in my homebrew, if you dont like them, dont use them. The feats are drawn from several books. I hope most are up to date with 3.5, if however the grammar and spelling police feel the urge, know this. I expect the more intelligent and less tightly wound members cruising the boards will know what I mean. Feel free to alter any of these as you see fit for use in your game. I hope you enjoy them, as much as my players will Urban Bloodline Char Trait Lvl Gained 1 +2 Bluff Checks 2 Feat: Deceitful 3 +1 Charisma 4 +2 Gather Information 5 Feat: Deft Hands 6 +1 Dexterity 7 +2 Hide 8 Feat: Nimble Fingers 9 +1 Intelligence 10 +2 Move Silently 11 Feat: Stealthy 12 +1 Charisma 13 +2 Open Locks 14 Feat: Quicker than the eye 15 +1 Dexterity 16 +2 Disable Device 17 Feat: Lightning Reflexes 18 +1 Intelligence 19 +2 Knowledge (Local) 20 Feat: Blind Fight |
| Temmogen06-22-04, 03:56 PM | Wilderness Template Char Trait Lvl Gained 1 +2 Survival 2 Feat: Forester 3 +1 Constitution 4 +2 Heal 5 Feat: Treetopper 6 +1 Strength 7 +2 Knowledge (Geography) 8 Feat: Survivor 9 +1 Wisdom 10 +2 Hide 11 Feat: Discipline 12 +1 Constitution 13 +2 Move Silently 14 Feat: Blooded 15 +1 Strength 16 Immune to Natural Poisons 17 Feat: Improved Swimming 18 +1 Wisdom 19 +2 Knowledge (Geography) 20 Feat: Scent |
| Temmogen06-22-04, 04:01 PM | Psionic Bloodline Major Char. Trait Lvl. Gained 1 Feat: Wild Talent/Manifest one first level discipline power 2 Choose any one Psionic skill as a class skill 3 Feat: Psionic Talent/Manifest one second level discipline power 4 +1 IntelligenceBonus 5 Psionic feat/Manifest one third level discipline power 6 Choose any one psionic skill as a class skill 7 Bonus Psionic feat/Manifest one forth level discipline power 8 +1 Intelligence 9 Bonus Psionic feat/Manifest one fifth level discipline power 10 Choose any one Psionic skill as a class skill 11 Bonus Psionic feat/Manifest one sixth level discipline power 12 +1 Intelligence 13 Bonus Psionic feat/Manifest one seventh level discipline power 14 Choose any one Psionic skill as a class skill 15 Bonus Psionic feat/Manifest one eighth level discipline power 16 +1 Intelligence 17 Bonus Psionic feat/Manifest one ninth level discipline power 18 Choose any one Psionic skill as a class skill 19 Bonus Psionic feat/Manifest any one discipline power as a free action 20 +1 Intelligence |
| Temmogen06-22-04, 04:06 PM | Military Template Char Trait Lvl Gained 1 +2 Profession (Soldier/Sailor) 2 Feat: Shieldmate 3 +1 Strength 4 +2 Craft (Armorsmith/Weaponsmith) 5 Feat:Improved Shieldmate 6 +1 Constitution 7 +2 Profession (Soldier/Sailor) 8 Feat: Phalanx Fighter 9 +1 Wisdom 10 +2 Craft (Armorsmith/Weaponsmith) 11 Feat: Leadership 12 +1 Strength 13 +2 Intimidate 14 Promoted in the Field* 15 +1 Constitution 16 +2 to Any class skill 17 Friend in every city* 18 +1 Wisdom 19 +2 to Any class skill 20 Privileged Position* *Promoted in the Field: May add 50% to pay on profession checks. And may Leadership ranks to profession checks. *Friend in every city: May get equipped with standard non-magical equipment appropiate to character level for free *Privileged Position: May opt for a permanent room or residence in a lords domain and a stipend of 50gp per month |
| Temmogen06-22-04, 04:11 PM | Merchant Template Char Trait Lvl Gained 1 +2 Bluff 2 +1 Charisma 3 Feat: Mercantile Background 4 +2 Appraise 5 +1 Intelligence 6 Feat: Smooth Talk 7 +2 Profession 8 +1 Wisdom 9 Feat: Silver Palm 10 +2 Bluff 11 +1 Charisma 12 Hard to Find* 13 +2 Appraise 14 +1 Intelligence 15 New market* 16 +2 Sense Motive 17 +1 Wisdom 18 Midas Touch* 19 +2 Appraise 20 +1 Charisma *Hard to Find: May make a Gather Information check at +5 to find rare items for sale *New market: May add Diplomacy ranks to Profession checks.Character now knows an extra 1d4 languages. *Midas Touch: +10 on any Appraise or Profession checks. Character buys all goods for 25% less and may sell all goods for 25% more than listed price. |
| Temmogen06-22-04, 04:15 PM | Artisan Template Char Trait Lvl Gained 1 +2 Craft 2 Apprenticeship* 3 +1 Wisdom 4 +2 profession 5 Journeyman* 6 +1 Intelligence 7 +2 Appraise 8 Tradesman* 9 +1 Constitution 10 +2 Craft 11 Craftsman* 12 +1 Wisdom 13 +2 Profession 14 Artisan* 15 +1 Intelligence 16 +2 Appraise 17 Master Craftsman* 18 +1 Constitution 19 +2 Craft 20 Legendary Artisan* Apprenticeship*- No -2 penalty for using improvised tools Journeyman*-May double pay from Craft checks Tradesman*-+2 Craft when using standard tools/+4 when using Masterwork tools (stacks with MW tools bonus) Craftsman*-+5 to Any Craft check/May add ˝ Int & Wis mod to Craft checks Artisan*-Any die roll of a natural 10 or 20 is considered a innovative design and is worth 5 times normal cost when sold. Master Craftsman*_May construct Any item, even MW items, for ˝ cost and in ˝ time Legendary Artisan*-+10 to Any Craft check/May add full Int & Wis mod to craft checks |
| Temmogen06-22-04, 04:21 PM | Arcane Template Char Trait Lvl Gained 1 Feat: Arcane Schooling/Feat: Magical Training 2 +1 Intelligence 3 +2 Spellcraft 4 Feat: Sudden Extend 5 +1 Charisma 6 +2 Concentration 7 Feat: Sudden Quicken 8 +1 Constitution 9 +2 Any Knowledge skill 10 Feat: Sudden Enlarge 11 +1 Intelligence 12 +2 Spellcraft 13 Feat: Sudden Silent 14 +1 Charisma 15 +2 Concentration 16 Feat: Sudden Still 17 +1 Constitution 18 +2 any Knowledge skill 19 Feat: Sudden Maximize 20 +1 Intelligence |
| Temmogen06-22-04, 04:25 PM | Divine Template Char Trait Lvl Gained 1 Feat: Divine Indoctrination/Feat: Religious Training 2 +1 Wisdom 3 +2 Concentration 4 Feat: Reach Spell 5 +1 Strength 6 +2 Knowledge (Religion) 7 Feat: Inscribe Rune 8 +1 Constitution 9 +2 Heal 10 Feat: Sacred Spell 11 +1 Wisdom 12 +2 Concentration 13 Feat: Divine Vigor 14 +1 Strength 15 +2 Knowledge (The Planes) 16 Feat: Divine Resistance 17 +1 Constitution 18 +2 Heal 19 Feat: Divine Vengeance 20 +1 Wisdom Divine Indoctrination-Same as the Arcane schooling feat save that applies to Divine Spellcasting classes Religious Training-Same as the Magical Training feat except the spells are as follows: Cure Minor Wounds Mending Purify Food & Drink |