Curious About House Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Curious About House Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
PerasThorngage
05-28-07, 08:06 PM The list below are the house rules I use for a game world I have created recently. And I was wondering what everyones opinions on them were, please note when reading that some things are not listed but I do provide a description of the ability so you have an idea what it is.

Also this was made with the hopes of evening the gap slightly between spell casters and the other classes, mainly in the ways of every time a splat book comes out the wizard/cleric/druid get a whole bunch of new spell options however the mass of feats out there does not allow other classes to gain new feats. Please provide honest opinions and try to avoid MAN YOU SUCK cases if at all possible :).

Rules of Haven

Haven Rules

Starting Rules

All heroes start with the ability scores below and a bonus feat.
18--15--15--14--13--11
(These ability scores are made for a heroic style setting and I understand they are more powerful than the current array)

Races:

Half Elves gain Improved Initiative as a bonus feat

Half Orcs gain Iron Will as a bonus feat and gain a +2 on Survival and Intimidate Checks.

Dwarves receive a -2 to dexterity instead of a -2 to charisma

Tieflings suffer no ability penalty, just like Aassimar

Classes:

All classes that normally gain 2 + Int modifier for skills now gain 4 + Int Modifier for amount of skills learned.

Fighters use the alternate fighter listed under the Haven classes below. (this is similar, but not the same as the Fighter How It Should be from Giantitp forums I believe written by Fax Celestis)

Sorcerers ignore Somatic and Verbal components, and materials components costing under five gold. In addition whenever sorcerer spell levels are gained you gain one additional known spell per spell level, and one additional spell a day. They also gain a +1 to caster level for purposes of spell effects, duration, and caster level checks at 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level.

Paladins gain at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level a bonus feat. As well they gain the Weapon of the Crusader class ability listed under the Classes of Haven section. (Weapon of the Crusader is a variant on the mount option that allows a paladin to summon a holy weapon from celestia)

Barbarians gain at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level a bonus feat. In addition they gain fasting healing 1 per six levels starting at 1 at first level.

Monks gain a +1 to attack and damage every 4 levels starting at +1 at first level. In addition a monk can enchant his body as a single weapon, this ability costs nothing but is limited to a +1 bonus every three levels to a maximum of a +6 weapon at 18th level, a monk can “save” a bonus to gain greater abilities such as holy or speed.

Rogues gain at 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th level a bonus luck, ambush, or action point feat.

Bards know one additional spell per spell level, and cast one additional spell per day per spell level. In addition Bards gain a bonus action point, bard song, or luck feat every four levels.

Rangers gain an animal companion as if they were a druid of their level, instead of a druid of their level -3.

Magic:

Spells that are extremely effective ( I.E. Dominate Person, Feeblemind, Slow now give the defender a +2 on their saves against these spells.)

Divine Power and Righteous Might now function as Tenser’s transformation (I.E. you prefer combat over all forms of spell casting or magic use, and thus cannot cast spells, or use spell completion items while these spells are in effect.)

Teleport and Teleport, Greater now can only be used to travel to a place the caster has personally been or to a direction and distance ( I.E. five thousand miles north), and cannot be used just based on scrying or legend lore.

Cure and Inflict Spells cast by clerics have no save.

Repair and Inflict Damage spells now deal damage or repair damage to non magical objects. These spells deal full or repair full damage ignoring hardness.

The healing domain instead of granting +1 caster level changes the die rolled by one size
Category ( I.E. instead of rolling d8s you would roll d10s).

2nd level spell Darkness creates a globe of total darkness, not shadowy illumination
As the 3.5 version states.

Boost Spells of 2nd level (I.E. Bull’s Strength, Bear’s Endurance) last 10 minutes/level

1st and 4th level Orb spells are now evocation spells.

Mordenkainen’s Disjunction now only negates magical items for 10 minutes/level. And it cannot be used to destroy artifacts.

Raise Dead has a 60% chance of success, Resurrection has a 75% chance of success, True Resurrection has a 95% chance of success. If the spell does not succeed the diamond is not used, but the soul cannot be retrieved.

Summon Monster and Summon Nature’s Ally can only summon a maximum of 3 creatures.

Feats:

Combat Expertise use with a shield or when dual wielding provides +1 extra dodge bonus to Armor Class.

Dodge feat now applies a +1 dodge bonus to all attackers

Two Weapon Fighting both weapons gain full strength for damage.
As well all two weapon fighting feats now need the shown dexterity minus 2, as a minimum prerequisite.

Natural Spell does not exist.

Skills:

Hide and Move Silently is replaced by Stealth (Dex).

Listen and Spot are replaced with Awareness (Wis) if an item would have given a bonus to one of these skills it now gives bonus to the replacement skill.

Special: An item or ability that gives a bonus to one skill and the other does not stack the highest bonus is counted.

Alertness feat now applies a bonus to Awareness (Wis) and Search (Int).
Stealthy feat now applies a bonus to Stealth (Dex) and Disguise (Cha).

Combat:

Characters may take advantage of the Unarmored Variant present in the Unearthed Arcana book on page 110. With the exception that you lose this bonus when flat-footed and only count half of the bonus for touch armor class.
Special: Whenever a class grants a bonus to armor class for using light or no armor, the character must use the armor rating for that class to take advantage of the class bonus.

Characters that normally gain heavy armor proficiency can only gain up to medium benefits in Unarmored Variant bonuses to armor class.

Table: Defense Bonus
Level A1 B2 C3 D4
None Light Medium Heavy
1st +2 +3 +4 +6
2nd +2 +3 +4 +6
3rd +3 +4 +5 +7
4th +3 +4 +5 +7
5th +3 +4 +5 +7
6th +4 +5 +6 +8
7th +4 +5 +6 +8
8th +4 +5 +6 +8
9th +5 +6 +7 +9
10th +5 +6 +7 +9
11th +5 +6 +7 +9
12th +6 +7 +8 +10
13th +6 +7 +8 +10
14th +6 +7 +8 +10
15th +7 +8 +9 +11
16th +7 +8 +9 +11
17th +7 +8 +9 +11
18th +8 +9 +10 +12
19th +8 +9 +10 +12
20th +8 +9 +10 +12

Heavy Unarmored Proficiency can now be taken as a feat with the prerequisites of
Medium Armor Proficiency, BAB 10+.

Action Points

Action points are gained every level, and do not carry over from previous levels. They can be used to alter any d20 roll, or to alter the luck of the character in a favorable way.

Levels Dice Rolled Number of Points
1-8 1d6 3
9-14 2d6 6
15-20 3d6 9

Once again I hope you all could provide me with insights into my games house rules, things I might have missed, or that dont make sense. I would post the world, but I have "borrowed" from one or two worlds things that I like and dont think it would float by law :).

Thank you
Friendly neighborhood DM.
Zyrusticae
05-28-07, 08:28 PM I use a 42-point buy, so that particular array isn't too extreme to me. It doesn't really matter, anyway, so long as you're prepared to challenge the characters appropriately.

Increasing all 2+Int classes to 4+Int - I do this myself, because, frankly, there are far too many skills to only have two(!) to choose from (with an average intelligence).

Hm. If you want to balance casters against non-casters, there's always the option of using the New Ultimate Classes (http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/index.php?title=Ultimate_Classes).

As far as your race changes go, they make sense. I just use Lotus Crane's Rebalanced Races (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=596634), personally.

I've also come up with my own defense progression (shown here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=849872) - yes, I'm a tool, advertising in your thread. Eh-heh. ;)).

As far as the skills go, consolidating those skills is actually fairly common, although I can't comment on how balanced it is (seeing as how it allows rogues to get away with putting skill points in fewer things).

I've, personally, house-ruled all feats that provide +1 bonuses in a single area to provide +2 bonuses instead, because I feel that a feat should actually be something pretty damned amazing, and not just a wimpy little numerical bonus. This actually works fairly well, since they cancel each other out (weapon focus provides +2 to attack bonus vs. dodge giving +2 to AC, and all that).

The changes to spells all look fairly reasonable, although I personally wouldn't change the resurrection spells because, frankly, in my campaign world, just getting someone who is capable of casting the spells is a feat in and of itself.
zag01
05-29-07, 03:53 PM Sorcerers ignoring Somatic components makes ASF obsolete. You'll have sorcerers in full plate with no penalty.
PerasThorngage
05-29-07, 07:57 PM I considered the sorceror in full plate idea, my main reasons for changing them were,

A) Sorcerers channel from the blood, it just makes it alot cooler flavor wise for them to simply will magic into existence.

B) Psions recieve this same benefit, and I have yet to see anyone going ooo uber psions break the game :)

C) Sorcerors are actually more visible than wizards in my game, because when you cast a spell people see swirls of energy around the character, thus other wizards can make a spellcraft check with a +5 on the DC to identify a spell being cast by a sorceror.

D) Sorcerers are seen as the second class spell caster between them and the wizard, and this doesnt necessarily make them broken, but it does give them a neat edge that most enjoy.

E) (Wow lots of letters) A sorcerer still take the penalties for wearing heavier armor, and if they dont want to they either lose feats, or lose a level of spell casting progression that hurts their already slow progression.

Well thats about it but I appreciate the notes so far, and hope more folks are interested in adding their comments

Friendly neighborhood DM
Fortebraccio
05-29-07, 08:49 PM MAN YOU SUCK...

Actually, I think that these house rules are sensibile and well thought.

Some things you'd like to consider:

1) Merge Open Locks and Disable Device.
2) MDJ should have a minor chance to destroy magical items (say 5%)
3) Combat Expertise (and Improved C.E.) used with a shield should result in a 50% reduction of the attack penalty
Neutronium_Dragon
05-29-07, 10:36 PM > Spells that are extremely effective ( I.E. Dominate Person, Feeblemind, Slow
> now give the defender a +2 on their saves against these spells.)

This one sticks out as a bad idea. Not only is it arbitrary (how do you determine which spells are 'extremely effective'), but turning it about it amounts to a declaration that you want spellcasters to use ineffective spells.

How many people do you know who willingly choose ineffective tools for the job?
PerasThorngage
05-29-07, 11:40 PM First off regarding the taking a half penalty for combat expertise sounds like a decent idea, my main reason for not doing it is that usually AC is considered more powerful than Damage.

IE dodge grants a +1 bonus against a single target, while weapon specialization adds +2 to damage. I might consider this, but I just have an iffy feeling about it. I am glad however to see other people agree with the fact that historically shields were very superior to two fisting a claymore.

Also I know the "highly effective" seems odd on my description of the spells. The main reasoning for this is single games where a BBEG was brought low in the first round by a heavy hitting spell. So "highly effective" translates to save vs suck or save vs lose spells. The +2 bonus isnt much, but it gives more of a chance to non-spellcasters.

If you notice in my rulings I tend towards equality instead of high level casters running the game. This however is not a "fighters suck, wizards are too uber!" thread so I wont get into that :) However if I notice things being too threatening to the power three (Cleric, Druid, Wizard) I'll drop that rule.

Thanks for the tips and remarks so far I appreciate it. I apologize for any punctuation or grammar errors in this, as I'm not the best.

Friendly neighborhood DM
Neutronium_Dragon
05-30-07, 12:22 AM > The main reasoning for this is single games where a BBEG was brought low in
> the first round by a heavy hitting spell.

That sounds more like one of the common problems with encounter design, not a problem with those spells.

"Boss" style fights as you see in many computer games do not work well in 3E D&D. Focused fire *will* bring them down in a flash, whether or not those spells are available, because D&D has no arbitrary "This is a Boss" flag which makes the creature immune to everything which might take it out quickly. This becomes all the more true as levels progress and applies across all classes because all forms of offensive power rapidly outpace defensive power.

Even a "boss" with a bunch of mooks as minions won't work because the mooks aren't a real threat and the focused fire will all head the boss's way there too.

A PC party is effective because there are several of them, and not only do they each bring different capabilities to the table, their numbers also ensure that if one is taken out of the fight, the fight doesn't instantly end. Enemies have to be set up that way too if they want to be survivable. Three 5th or 6th level opponents with a modicum of synergy in their abilities will make a better challenge than one 8th or 9th level opponent for an 8th level party, and they don't suffer as much from the focused fire problem (because they're all a threat and can all cover for one another to some extent, but also because they're three separate targets to divide attention between).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PerasThorngage 05-28-07, 08:06 PM	The list below are the house rules I use for a game world I have created recently. And I was wondering what everyones opinions on them were, please note when reading that some things are not listed but I do provide a description of the ability so you have an idea what it is. Also this was made with the hopes of evening the gap slightly between spell casters and the other classes, mainly in the ways of every time a splat book comes out the wizard/cleric/druid get a whole bunch of new spell options however the mass of feats out there does not allow other classes to gain new feats. Please provide honest opinions and try to avoid MAN YOU SUCK cases if at all possible :). Rules of Haven Haven Rules Starting Rules All heroes start with the ability scores below and a bonus feat. 18--15--15--14--13--11 (These ability scores are made for a heroic style setting and I understand they are more powerful than the current array) Races: Half Elves gain Improved Initiative as a bonus feat Half Orcs gain Iron Will as a bonus feat and gain a +2 on Survival and Intimidate Checks. Dwarves receive a -2 to dexterity instead of a -2 to charisma Tieflings suffer no ability penalty, just like Aassimar Classes: All classes that normally gain 2 + Int modifier for skills now gain 4 + Int Modifier for amount of skills learned. Fighters use the alternate fighter listed under the Haven classes below. (this is similar, but not the same as the Fighter How It Should be from Giantitp forums I believe written by Fax Celestis) Sorcerers ignore Somatic and Verbal components, and materials components costing under five gold. In addition whenever sorcerer spell levels are gained you gain one additional known spell per spell level, and one additional spell a day. They also gain a +1 to caster level for purposes of spell effects, duration, and caster level checks at 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level. Paladins gain at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level a bonus feat. As well they gain the Weapon of the Crusader class ability listed under the Classes of Haven section. (Weapon of the Crusader is a variant on the mount option that allows a paladin to summon a holy weapon from celestia) Barbarians gain at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level a bonus feat. In addition they gain fasting healing 1 per six levels starting at 1 at first level. Monks gain a +1 to attack and damage every 4 levels starting at +1 at first level. In addition a monk can enchant his body as a single weapon, this ability costs nothing but is limited to a +1 bonus every three levels to a maximum of a +6 weapon at 18th level, a monk can “save” a bonus to gain greater abilities such as holy or speed. Rogues gain at 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th level a bonus luck, ambush, or action point feat. Bards know one additional spell per spell level, and cast one additional spell per day per spell level. In addition Bards gain a bonus action point, bard song, or luck feat every four levels. Rangers gain an animal companion as if they were a druid of their level, instead of a druid of their level -3. Magic: Spells that are extremely effective ( I.E. Dominate Person, Feeblemind, Slow now give the defender a +2 on their saves against these spells.) Divine Power and Righteous Might now function as Tenser’s transformation (I.E. you prefer combat over all forms of spell casting or magic use, and thus cannot cast spells, or use spell completion items while these spells are in effect.) Teleport and Teleport, Greater now can only be used to travel to a place the caster has personally been or to a direction and distance ( I.E. five thousand miles north), and cannot be used just based on scrying or legend lore. Cure and Inflict Spells cast by clerics have no save. Repair and Inflict Damage spells now deal damage or repair damage to non magical objects. These spells deal full or repair full damage ignoring hardness. The healing domain instead of granting +1 caster level changes the die rolled by one size Category ( I.E. instead of rolling d8s you would roll d10s). 2nd level spell Darkness creates a globe of total darkness, not shadowy illumination As the 3.5 version states. Boost Spells of 2nd level (I.E. Bull’s Strength, Bear’s Endurance) last 10 minutes/level 1st and 4th level Orb spells are now evocation spells. Mordenkainen’s Disjunction now only negates magical items for 10 minutes/level. And it cannot be used to destroy artifacts. Raise Dead has a 60% chance of success, Resurrection has a 75% chance of success, True Resurrection has a 95% chance of success. If the spell does not succeed the diamond is not used, but the soul cannot be retrieved. Summon Monster and Summon Nature’s Ally can only summon a maximum of 3 creatures. Feats: Combat Expertise use with a shield or when dual wielding provides +1 extra dodge bonus to Armor Class. Dodge feat now applies a +1 dodge bonus to all attackers Two Weapon Fighting both weapons gain full strength for damage. As well all two weapon fighting feats now need the shown dexterity minus 2, as a minimum prerequisite. Natural Spell does not exist. Skills: Hide and Move Silently is replaced by Stealth (Dex). Listen and Spot are replaced with Awareness (Wis) if an item would have given a bonus to one of these skills it now gives bonus to the replacement skill. Special: An item or ability that gives a bonus to one skill and the other does not stack the highest bonus is counted. Alertness feat now applies a bonus to Awareness (Wis) and Search (Int). Stealthy feat now applies a bonus to Stealth (Dex) and Disguise (Cha). Combat: Characters may take advantage of the Unarmored Variant present in the Unearthed Arcana book on page 110. With the exception that you lose this bonus when flat-footed and only count half of the bonus for touch armor class. Special: Whenever a class grants a bonus to armor class for using light or no armor, the character must use the armor rating for that class to take advantage of the class bonus. Characters that normally gain heavy armor proficiency can only gain up to medium benefits in Unarmored Variant bonuses to armor class. Table: Defense Bonus Level A1 B2 C3 D4 None Light Medium Heavy 1st +2 +3 +4 +6 2nd +2 +3 +4 +6 3rd +3 +4 +5 +7 4th +3 +4 +5 +7 5th +3 +4 +5 +7 6th +4 +5 +6 +8 7th +4 +5 +6 +8 8th +4 +5 +6 +8 9th +5 +6 +7 +9 10th +5 +6 +7 +9 11th +5 +6 +7 +9 12th +6 +7 +8 +10 13th +6 +7 +8 +10 14th +6 +7 +8 +10 15th +7 +8 +9 +11 16th +7 +8 +9 +11 17th +7 +8 +9 +11 18th +8 +9 +10 +12 19th +8 +9 +10 +12 20th +8 +9 +10 +12 Heavy Unarmored Proficiency can now be taken as a feat with the prerequisites of Medium Armor Proficiency, BAB 10+. Action Points Action points are gained every level, and do not carry over from previous levels. They can be used to alter any d20 roll, or to alter the luck of the character in a favorable way. Levels Dice Rolled Number of Points 1-8 1d6 3 9-14 2d6 6 15-20 3d6 9 Once again I hope you all could provide me with insights into my games house rules, things I might have missed, or that dont make sense. I would post the world, but I have "borrowed" from one or two worlds things that I like and dont think it would float by law :). Thank you Friendly neighborhood DM.
Zyrusticae 05-28-07, 08:28 PM	I use a 42-point buy, so that particular array isn't too extreme to me. It doesn't really matter, anyway, so long as you're prepared to challenge the characters appropriately. Increasing all 2+Int classes to 4+Int - I do this myself, because, frankly, there are far too many skills to only have two(!) to choose from (with an average intelligence). Hm. If you want to balance casters against non-casters, there's always the option of using the New Ultimate Classes (http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/index.php?title=Ultimate_Classes). As far as your race changes go, they make sense. I just use Lotus Crane's Rebalanced Races (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=596634), personally. I've also come up with my own defense progression (shown here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=849872) - yes, I'm a tool, advertising in your thread. Eh-heh. ;)). As far as the skills go, consolidating those skills is actually fairly common, although I can't comment on how balanced it is (seeing as how it allows rogues to get away with putting skill points in fewer things). I've, personally, house-ruled all feats that provide +1 bonuses in a single area to provide +2 bonuses instead, because I feel that a feat should actually be something pretty damned amazing, and not just a wimpy little numerical bonus. This actually works fairly well, since they cancel each other out (weapon focus provides +2 to attack bonus vs. dodge giving +2 to AC, and all that). The changes to spells all look fairly reasonable, although I personally wouldn't change the resurrection spells because, frankly, in my campaign world, just getting someone who is capable of casting the spells is a feat in and of itself.
zag01 05-29-07, 03:53 PM	Sorcerers ignoring Somatic components makes ASF obsolete. You'll have sorcerers in full plate with no penalty.
PerasThorngage 05-29-07, 07:57 PM	I considered the sorceror in full plate idea, my main reasons for changing them were, A) Sorcerers channel from the blood, it just makes it alot cooler flavor wise for them to simply will magic into existence. B) Psions recieve this same benefit, and I have yet to see anyone going ooo uber psions break the game :) C) Sorcerors are actually more visible than wizards in my game, because when you cast a spell people see swirls of energy around the character, thus other wizards can make a spellcraft check with a +5 on the DC to identify a spell being cast by a sorceror. D) Sorcerers are seen as the second class spell caster between them and the wizard, and this doesnt necessarily make them broken, but it does give them a neat edge that most enjoy. E) (Wow lots of letters) A sorcerer still take the penalties for wearing heavier armor, and if they dont want to they either lose feats, or lose a level of spell casting progression that hurts their already slow progression. Well thats about it but I appreciate the notes so far, and hope more folks are interested in adding their comments Friendly neighborhood DM
Fortebraccio 05-29-07, 08:49 PM	MAN YOU SUCK... Actually, I think that these house rules are sensibile and well thought. Some things you'd like to consider: 1) Merge Open Locks and Disable Device. 2) MDJ should have a minor chance to destroy magical items (say 5%) 3) Combat Expertise (and Improved C.E.) used with a shield should result in a 50% reduction of the attack penalty
Neutronium_Dragon 05-29-07, 10:36 PM	> Spells that are extremely effective ( I.E. Dominate Person, Feeblemind, Slow > now give the defender a +2 on their saves against these spells.) This one sticks out as a bad idea. Not only is it arbitrary (how do you determine which spells are 'extremely effective'), but turning it about it amounts to a declaration that you want spellcasters to use ineffective spells. How many people do you know who willingly choose ineffective tools for the job?
PerasThorngage 05-29-07, 11:40 PM	First off regarding the taking a half penalty for combat expertise sounds like a decent idea, my main reason for not doing it is that usually AC is considered more powerful than Damage. IE dodge grants a +1 bonus against a single target, while weapon specialization adds +2 to damage. I might consider this, but I just have an iffy feeling about it. I am glad however to see other people agree with the fact that historically shields were very superior to two fisting a claymore. Also I know the "highly effective" seems odd on my description of the spells. The main reasoning for this is single games where a BBEG was brought low in the first round by a heavy hitting spell. So "highly effective" translates to save vs suck or save vs lose spells. The +2 bonus isnt much, but it gives more of a chance to non-spellcasters. If you notice in my rulings I tend towards equality instead of high level casters running the game. This however is not a "fighters suck, wizards are too uber!" thread so I wont get into that :) However if I notice things being too threatening to the power three (Cleric, Druid, Wizard) I'll drop that rule. Thanks for the tips and remarks so far I appreciate it. I apologize for any punctuation or grammar errors in this, as I'm not the best. Friendly neighborhood DM
Neutronium_Dragon 05-30-07, 12:22 AM	> The main reasoning for this is single games where a BBEG was brought low in > the first round by a heavy hitting spell. That sounds more like one of the common problems with encounter design, not a problem with those spells. "Boss" style fights as you see in many computer games do not work well in 3E D&D. Focused fire will bring them down in a flash, whether or not those spells are available, because D&D has no arbitrary "This is a Boss" flag which makes the creature immune to everything which might take it out quickly. This becomes all the more true as levels progress and applies across all classes because all forms of offensive power rapidly outpace defensive power. Even a "boss" with a bunch of mooks as minions won't work because the mooks aren't a real threat and the focused fire will all head the boss's way there too. A PC party is effective because there are several of them, and not only do they each bring different capabilities to the table, their numbers also ensure that if one is taken out of the fight, the fight doesn't instantly end. Enemies have to be set up that way too if they want to be survivable. Three 5th or 6th level opponents with a modicum of synergy in their abilities will make a better challenge than one 8th or 9th level opponent for an 8th level party, and they don't suffer as much from the focused fire problem (because they're all a threat and can all cover for one another to some extent, but also because they're three separate targets to divide attention between).