D20 Turn Undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

D20 Turn Undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Werral
09-02-07, 11:21 AM Turn undead is weird right? It doesn't look like D20 at all, it's complicated, but not deatiled complicated, just arbitrary complicated.

So how about this (just an idea, hope to bang it out in this thread).

A Cleric has a Turn Attack versus undead (or other stuff). The DC is 15+<Cleric level+Chr bonus.

Okay so here I'm thinking nobody wants to make a save for every damn skeleton so:

Make 1 save for all undead of the same type and HD in the group (roll first for the weakest). If the undead fail the save then every point they fail by is 1 monster that's turned.

If the undead have less then half as many HD as the Cleric has levels then the attack destroys them instead.

If all the weakest undead are turned (or rebuked) then the Cleric gets a free Turn Attack against the next weakest undead.

Example:

A 1st level Cleric with a Chr or 12 faces 10 skeletons and a ghoul. The DC for his turn attack is 18. The skeletons make their save and roll a 10, so they failed by 8 and 8 skeletons are turned. Since the attack was succesful the Ghoul has to make a save.
Talisman
09-02-07, 05:42 PM A Cleric has a Turn Attack versus undead (or other stuff). The DC is 15+<Cleric level+Chr bonus.

I'd make it 10 + 1/2 cleric level + Cha modifier.

The way you've written it, I can't tell if it's 10 + the lower of cleric level or Charisma modifier, or 10 + cleric level and Charisma modifier. Your example supports neither view.

Make 1 save for all undead of the same type and HD in the group (roll first for the weakest). If the undead fail the save then every point they fail by is 1 monster that's turned.

An unusual rule, but I don't really see a problem with it. Of course, if the cleric is Turning 10 skellies, I don't see a problem with simply rolling 5d20 twice, either.

If the undead have less then half as many HD as the Cleric has levels then the attack destroys them instead.

:thumbsup:

If all the weakest undead are turned (or rebuked) then the Cleric gets a free Turn Attack against the next weakest undead.

Example:

A 1st level Cleric with a Chr or 12 faces 10 skeletons and a ghoul. The DC for his turn attack is 18. The skeletons make their save and roll a 10, so they failed by 8 and 8 skeletons are turned. Since the attack was succesful the Ghoul has to make a save.

Now, this makes little sense to me. First of all, according to your formula, this cleric's Turn DC should be either 16 or 17, not 18.

Second, I don't like that you can potentially turn only 1 or 2 of the minions, plus the boss! Only if all the minions are Turned should higher-HD undead be affected. This could lead to bizarre situations where you turn 1 zombie out of a horde of 30 (technically a success), and then manage to turn the five vampire overlords who are directing the zombies! Ridiculous.

Personally, I like the variant turning rules in Complete Divine, where turning deals damage to the undead. I've always found it a pain to keep track of fleeing undead, plus remembering that they'll come shambling back 20 rounds later.
strenoth
09-03-07, 12:20 AM Or you could just modify the formula foudn for alternative turning rules int he complete divine...
Werral
09-04-07, 04:55 AM I'd make it 10 + 1/2 cleric level + Cha modifier.

The way you've written it, I can't tell if it's 10 + the lower of cleric level or Charisma modifier, or 10 + cleric level and Charisma modifier. Your example supports neither view.

An unusual rule, but I don't really see a problem with it. Of course, if the cleric is Turning 10 skellies, I don't see a problem with simply rolling 5d20 twice, either.

:thumbsup:

Now, this makes little sense to me. First of all, according to your formula, this cleric's Turn DC should be either 16 or 17, not 18.

Second, I don't like that you can potentially turn only 1 or 2 of the minions, plus the boss! Only if all the minions are Turned should higher-HD undead be affected. This could lead to bizarre situations where you turn 1 zombie out of a horde of 30 (technically a success), and then manage to turn the five vampire overlords who are directing the zombies! Ridiculous.

Thanks for suche detailed feedback, I've made some corrections to my post (mostly typos and silly mistakes.

Personally, I like the variant turning rules in Complete Divine, where turning deals damage to the undead. I've always found it a pain to keep track of fleeing undead, plus remembering that they'll come shambling back 20 rounds later.

I think forcing back undead is more dramatic/gothic horror than just dealing damage. You can really put the pressure on a party by reminding them about the undead that're about to start shambling back and describing it as the cleric's power buckling under the strain...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Werral 09-02-07, 11:21 AM	Turn undead is weird right? It doesn't look like D20 at all, it's complicated, but not deatiled complicated, just arbitrary complicated. So how about this (just an idea, hope to bang it out in this thread). A Cleric has a Turn Attack versus undead (or other stuff). The DC is 15+<Cleric level+Chr bonus. Okay so here I'm thinking nobody wants to make a save for every damn skeleton so: Make 1 save for all undead of the same type and HD in the group (roll first for the weakest). If the undead fail the save then every point they fail by is 1 monster that's turned. If the undead have less then half as many HD as the Cleric has levels then the attack destroys them instead. If all the weakest undead are turned (or rebuked) then the Cleric gets a free Turn Attack against the next weakest undead. Example: A 1st level Cleric with a Chr or 12 faces 10 skeletons and a ghoul. The DC for his turn attack is 18. The skeletons make their save and roll a 10, so they failed by 8 and 8 skeletons are turned. Since the attack was succesful the Ghoul has to make a save.
Talisman 09-02-07, 05:42 PM	A Cleric has a Turn Attack versus undead (or other stuff). The DC is 15+<Cleric level+Chr bonus. I'd make it 10 + 1/2 cleric level + Cha modifier. The way you've written it, I can't tell if it's 10 + the lower of cleric level or Charisma modifier, or 10 + cleric level and Charisma modifier. Your example supports neither view. Make 1 save for all undead of the same type and HD in the group (roll first for the weakest). If the undead fail the save then every point they fail by is 1 monster that's turned. An unusual rule, but I don't really see a problem with it. Of course, if the cleric is Turning 10 skellies, I don't see a problem with simply rolling 5d20 twice, either. If the undead have less then half as many HD as the Cleric has levels then the attack destroys them instead. :thumbsup: If all the weakest undead are turned (or rebuked) then the Cleric gets a free Turn Attack against the next weakest undead. Example: A 1st level Cleric with a Chr or 12 faces 10 skeletons and a ghoul. The DC for his turn attack is 18. The skeletons make their save and roll a 10, so they failed by 8 and 8 skeletons are turned. Since the attack was succesful the Ghoul has to make a save. Now, this makes little sense to me. First of all, according to your formula, this cleric's Turn DC should be either 16 or 17, not 18. Second, I don't like that you can potentially turn only 1 or 2 of the minions, plus the boss! Only if all the minions are Turned should higher-HD undead be affected. This could lead to bizarre situations where you turn 1 zombie out of a horde of 30 (technically a success), and then manage to turn the five vampire overlords who are directing the zombies! Ridiculous. Personally, I like the variant turning rules in Complete Divine, where turning deals damage to the undead. I've always found it a pain to keep track of fleeing undead, plus remembering that they'll come shambling back 20 rounds later.
strenoth 09-03-07, 12:20 AM	Or you could just modify the formula foudn for alternative turning rules int he complete divine...
Werral 09-04-07, 04:55 AM	I'd make it 10 + 1/2 cleric level + Cha modifier. The way you've written it, I can't tell if it's 10 + the lower of cleric level or Charisma modifier, or 10 + cleric level and Charisma modifier. Your example supports neither view. An unusual rule, but I don't really see a problem with it. Of course, if the cleric is Turning 10 skellies, I don't see a problem with simply rolling 5d20 twice, either. :thumbsup: Now, this makes little sense to me. First of all, according to your formula, this cleric's Turn DC should be either 16 or 17, not 18. Second, I don't like that you can potentially turn only 1 or 2 of the minions, plus the boss! Only if all the minions are Turned should higher-HD undead be affected. This could lead to bizarre situations where you turn 1 zombie out of a horde of 30 (technically a success), and then manage to turn the five vampire overlords who are directing the zombies! Ridiculous. Thanks for suche detailed feedback, I've made some corrections to my post (mostly typos and silly mistakes. Personally, I like the variant turning rules in Complete Divine, where turning deals damage to the undead. I've always found it a pain to keep track of fleeing undead, plus remembering that they'll come shambling back 20 rounds later. I think forcing back undead is more dramatic/gothic horror than just dealing damage. You can really put the pressure on a party by reminding them about the undead that're about to start shambling back and describing it as the cleric's power buckling under the strain...