Daily Spell List: Slight nerf idea [Archive] - Wizards Community

Daily Spell List: Slight nerf idea [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thelon Fairblade
12-03-04, 10:43 AM Daily Spell List is a powerful variant for the wizard, 80% (or more) eliminating the usefulness of a sorcerer.

I was thinking of a slight nerf to the variant that would at least highlight the sorcerer's remaining advantage of mor espells per day.

Idea 1: Regardless of spell slots available, you may not cast any given spell more than 4 times until you rest.

Idea 2: Regardless of spell slots available, you may not cast any given spell more than (INT bonus) times until you rest.

Idea 1 chooses 4 as the behind-the-scenes normal limit to the wizard's daily spell slots. Idea 2 allows the wizard's capability to increase as his power (INT) increases. Both operate on the idea of mental fatigue... the repeated focus of magical energies through the same prepared spell matrix, the less stable the matrix becomes.
Carpe DM
12-03-04, 03:36 PM Eh. Personally I think the Sorceror is just a "different type of psychic". The way I see it, an ability (no matter what kind) that you can use innately through force of will is a psionic ability. That's kind of the defining line for me. If you learned the supernatural ability naturally through sheer willpower, it's a psionic power. If you learned it because of study and ritual, then it's arcane magic.

But that's just my opinion and I don't expect to change anyone.

On that note, though, I do have two other ideas for you:

1: Don't use the Daily Spell List. Instead, allow a wizard to leave any number of spells per day as "Open Slots". The wizard can, at any point during play, prepare a spell he has in his spellbook to take up an "Open Slot" of it's appropriate spell level. Once prepared, the spell can then be cast. Preparing a spell takes a number of minutes equal to one plus the spell level (so 6 minutes for a 5th level spell, for example). This enables the wizard better flexibility with the magic, but he is still not "spontaneous" like the sorceror. The wizard may still prepare any number of his spells per day ahead of time during his 1-hour meditation period, as normal. Or, if he doesn't want to pre-prepare any spells (or is unable to do so due to in-game scenario), he can leave all of his spell slots as "Open Slots". This would give him alot of flexibility, but because no spells would be pre-prepared, he would be pretty much useless in any situation where you have to have a spell ready RIGHT NOW (such as combat, or an emergency).

2: Turn the Sorceror into a different flavor class. Remove the ability to have a familiar. Give him access to ANY spells in the game for his spell selections (arcane, druidic, divine, paladin, ranger, ANYTHING), but limit his potential spell levels to 6th level spells only. At any level where he would -learn- a new 7th level spell, give him a new 1st level spell instead. At the earliest level where he would gain 7th level spells per day, give him an additional 1st level spell per day. Every additional time he would gain another 7th level spell per day, give him an additional 1st level spell per day. Repeat this process with 8th level spells, except they would be 2nd level spells. Repeat it also with 9th level spells, except they would be 3rd level spells. So you end up with a character who by 20th level has only up to 6th level spells, but has a possible selection of damage, curing, buff, debuff, and so forth (depending on the spells he chose to learn). While he lacks high level spells, he has a LOT of lower-leveled spells, which makes his magic potentially very versatile. If you couple this with a Ring of Wizardry, he can get a pretty hefty amount of spells per day!
Thelon Fairblade
12-03-04, 04:56 PM Well, I'm alrady toying with the idea of removing the "sorcerer" for the Psion in my next campaign....

Anyway, your first idea is..... CORE! The wizard can already leave slots open, and spend 15 minutes any time later in the day to fill one. The Wizard PC in my last campaign routinely did this with at least 1 slot of each level when exploring, "just in case."

Your second idea is .... odd. :) What I was actually going to do was this: Sorc/Wiz list = +0 levels. Bard list = +1 level. Druid list = +2 levels. Cleric list +3 levels.
Carpe DM
12-03-04, 05:58 PM Hmm. I wasn't aware of that core idea. Still, doing it the way I came up with lessens the amount of time needed for it, which would give wizards that boost versus sorcerors.

As far as the "odd" idea... LOL

You don't have to go strictly by the "7th level equals 1st level" type of idea either. If you want to go more complex and stagger out the spell gains, go for it. So at one level he might get an extra 4th level spell, or an extra 1st and an extra 5th, or something. The method I mentioned is the easiest to remember, but perhaps not the most powerful. Personally though, I find in game that I get the most use out of low level spells anyway. There's only certain situations where, say, Meteor Swarm would be good to use. But Magic Missile or Tenser's Floating Disc? Constantly!

So while some would say that this would totally be a useless class, I would tend to disagree. It all depends on what you want in a class.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thelon Fairblade 12-03-04, 10:43 AM	Daily Spell List is a powerful variant for the wizard, 80% (or more) eliminating the usefulness of a sorcerer. I was thinking of a slight nerf to the variant that would at least highlight the sorcerer's remaining advantage of mor espells per day. Idea 1: Regardless of spell slots available, you may not cast any given spell more than 4 times until you rest. Idea 2: Regardless of spell slots available, you may not cast any given spell more than (INT bonus) times until you rest. Idea 1 chooses 4 as the behind-the-scenes normal limit to the wizard's daily spell slots. Idea 2 allows the wizard's capability to increase as his power (INT) increases. Both operate on the idea of mental fatigue... the repeated focus of magical energies through the same prepared spell matrix, the less stable the matrix becomes.
Carpe DM 12-03-04, 03:36 PM	Eh. Personally I think the Sorceror is just a "different type of psychic". The way I see it, an ability (no matter what kind) that you can use innately through force of will is a psionic ability. That's kind of the defining line for me. If you learned the supernatural ability naturally through sheer willpower, it's a psionic power. If you learned it because of study and ritual, then it's arcane magic. But that's just my opinion and I don't expect to change anyone. On that note, though, I do have two other ideas for you: 1: Don't use the Daily Spell List. Instead, allow a wizard to leave any number of spells per day as "Open Slots". The wizard can, at any point during play, prepare a spell he has in his spellbook to take up an "Open Slot" of it's appropriate spell level. Once prepared, the spell can then be cast. Preparing a spell takes a number of minutes equal to one plus the spell level (so 6 minutes for a 5th level spell, for example). This enables the wizard better flexibility with the magic, but he is still not "spontaneous" like the sorceror. The wizard may still prepare any number of his spells per day ahead of time during his 1-hour meditation period, as normal. Or, if he doesn't want to pre-prepare any spells (or is unable to do so due to in-game scenario), he can leave all of his spell slots as "Open Slots". This would give him alot of flexibility, but because no spells would be pre-prepared, he would be pretty much useless in any situation where you have to have a spell ready RIGHT NOW (such as combat, or an emergency). 2: Turn the Sorceror into a different flavor class. Remove the ability to have a familiar. Give him access to ANY spells in the game for his spell selections (arcane, druidic, divine, paladin, ranger, ANYTHING), but limit his potential spell levels to 6th level spells only. At any level where he would -learn- a new 7th level spell, give him a new 1st level spell instead. At the earliest level where he would gain 7th level spells per day, give him an additional 1st level spell per day. Every additional time he would gain another 7th level spell per day, give him an additional 1st level spell per day. Repeat this process with 8th level spells, except they would be 2nd level spells. Repeat it also with 9th level spells, except they would be 3rd level spells. So you end up with a character who by 20th level has only up to 6th level spells, but has a possible selection of damage, curing, buff, debuff, and so forth (depending on the spells he chose to learn). While he lacks high level spells, he has a LOT of lower-leveled spells, which makes his magic potentially very versatile. If you couple this with a Ring of Wizardry, he can get a pretty hefty amount of spells per day!
Thelon Fairblade 12-03-04, 04:56 PM	Well, I'm alrady toying with the idea of removing the "sorcerer" for the Psion in my next campaign.... Anyway, your first idea is..... CORE! The wizard can already leave slots open, and spend 15 minutes any time later in the day to fill one. The Wizard PC in my last campaign routinely did this with at least 1 slot of each level when exploring, "just in case." Your second idea is .... odd. :) What I was actually going to do was this: Sorc/Wiz list = +0 levels. Bard list = +1 level. Druid list = +2 levels. Cleric list +3 levels.
Carpe DM 12-03-04, 05:58 PM	Hmm. I wasn't aware of that core idea. Still, doing it the way I came up with lessens the amount of time needed for it, which would give wizards that boost versus sorcerors. As far as the "odd" idea... LOL You don't have to go strictly by the "7th level equals 1st level" type of idea either. If you want to go more complex and stagger out the spell gains, go for it. So at one level he might get an extra 4th level spell, or an extra 1st and an extra 5th, or something. The method I mentioned is the easiest to remember, but perhaps not the most powerful. Personally though, I find in game that I get the most use out of low level spells anyway. There's only certain situations where, say, Meteor Swarm would be good to use. But Magic Missile or Tenser's Floating Disc? Constantly! So while some would say that this would totally be a useless class, I would tend to disagree. It all depends on what you want in a class.