Damage/toughness save [Archive] - Wizards Community

Damage/toughness save [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
polt
05-03-07, 10:59 AM Hey guys

Anybody in here uses a damage/toughness save in their game instead of HP? I've heard that the one in the UA doesn't work very well, so I'd like to hear if anybody has any alternatives.
RobbyPants
05-03-07, 11:03 AM My only problem with it, is that it seems to be just as much bookkeeping as the standard HP system, and it's less intuitive. Now, this is just my opinions, but that's why I don't use it.
SilvercatMoonpaw
05-03-07, 12:13 PM I've played in another system that uses a variant of the variant (True20). The UA system is complicated because it still uses the hit point damage of an attack to calculate the save. Replace that with a fixed save modifier for an attack and things get a bit simpler. That's about all I can think of for complicated.

My experience has been that taking down tally marks that represent a small penalty on the save each is quicker than doing subtraction of who knows how many points of damage.
polt
05-03-07, 12:14 PM What's your experience with the toughness save from true20? Does it make a huge difference in combat? Make it quicker? More cinematic? More lethal? Slower?
SilvercatMoonpaw
05-03-07, 12:49 PM It wasn't necessarily True20, just pretty much the same system. Also, said system removes things such as Attacks of Opportunity and itineritive attacks, and adds a rule where uniportant NPCs get knocked out after one successful attack, so combat is already much quicker already.

First off it requires less dice rolling: attacks have a fixed save DC, which the defender rolls 1d20+save modifier against. Make the save and take no damage. Fail, and it's only a matter of what increment of 5 you failed by. Then you look on a short chart. Damage is tracked first based on penalties to the damage save, then on a disabled condition, then on an out-of-combat condition (with non-lethal and lethal each having their own track). That's the basics. There are a few extra tactical options in addition to that, but you can simply engage in a slugfest.

I'm not a good person to say how cinematic it is, but it lets me care more about doing my combat thing than what damage I've taken. Also the randomness of a die roll means you can have quite spectacular outcomes.

If the combants in question have their toughness save modifier maxed combat isn't very lethal. And it can go slowly (because each successful attack isn't causing at least 1 point of damage like hit points). However, so long as the attack DC and save modifier scale at the same rate combat remains on a level field.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
polt 05-03-07, 10:59 AM	Hey guys Anybody in here uses a damage/toughness save in their game instead of HP? I've heard that the one in the UA doesn't work very well, so I'd like to hear if anybody has any alternatives.
RobbyPants 05-03-07, 11:03 AM	My only problem with it, is that it seems to be just as much bookkeeping as the standard HP system, and it's less intuitive. Now, this is just my opinions, but that's why I don't use it.
SilvercatMoonpaw 05-03-07, 12:13 PM	I've played in another system that uses a variant of the variant (True20). The UA system is complicated because it still uses the hit point damage of an attack to calculate the save. Replace that with a fixed save modifier for an attack and things get a bit simpler. That's about all I can think of for complicated. My experience has been that taking down tally marks that represent a small penalty on the save each is quicker than doing subtraction of who knows how many points of damage.
polt 05-03-07, 12:14 PM	What's your experience with the toughness save from true20? Does it make a huge difference in combat? Make it quicker? More cinematic? More lethal? Slower?
SilvercatMoonpaw 05-03-07, 12:49 PM	It wasn't necessarily True20, just pretty much the same system. Also, said system removes things such as Attacks of Opportunity and itineritive attacks, and adds a rule where uniportant NPCs get knocked out after one successful attack, so combat is already much quicker already. First off it requires less dice rolling: attacks have a fixed save DC, which the defender rolls 1d20+save modifier against. Make the save and take no damage. Fail, and it's only a matter of what increment of 5 you failed by. Then you look on a short chart. Damage is tracked first based on penalties to the damage save, then on a disabled condition, then on an out-of-combat condition (with non-lethal and lethal each having their own track). That's the basics. There are a few extra tactical options in addition to that, but you can simply engage in a slugfest. I'm not a good person to say how cinematic it is, but it lets me care more about doing my combat thing than what damage I've taken. Also the randomness of a die roll means you can have quite spectacular outcomes. If the combants in question have their toughness save modifier maxed combat isn't very lethal. And it can go slowly (because each successful attack isn't causing at least 1 point of damage like hit points). However, so long as the attack DC and save modifier scale at the same rate combat remains on a level field.