Dealing with magic items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dealing with magic items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wayside
09-26-06, 02:11 AM I'm sure many a DM has had the problem that his group rapidly has an over-abundance of magic items. After a while a character seems to become nothing more than a host for his magic items. Of course there are cheesy solutions to this problem such as stealing stuff from the group, but while i was creating my new campaign world a couple methods of dealing with this problem came from the flavor of the setting.

For my campaign setting i fletched out a new spellcasting sytem based on the campaign world, and along with the effects the new magic system had on spellcasting there were bound to be effects on magic items. The setting was geared to be a world where the gods have been pulling away from the world and magic began experiencing lots of problems, changing in the way it worked on almost a day to day basis. (this gave me the freedom to test out a bunch of spell systems i had) It eventually settled in what seemed to be an at least consistant state, but problems still existed. Magic items seem to rely on the ability of the individual in order to operate, and without a strong enough wielder they begin to malfunction.

What this means in game mechanics:
Referencing the DMG for character wealth by level, the listed wealth for your level is your threshold for magic items in which you know is a safe ammount.
Going beyond this threshold can cause problems. Items may cease to function when least expected or when needed most, their magic may fall away altogether, or in some of the worst cases may become corrupt. The higher the character's charisma the farther they can venture beyond their threshold safely (DM decides just how far. characters with 5 or more ranks in use magic device should be considered to have a charisma 2 points higher for purposes of this). Intelligent items will likely corrupt or disable other possessions of the wielder.
The DM should do minor things like occasional malfunctions if a character is slightly over their threshold, and if they go too far you essentially gain freedom to curse the item however you feel, or simply make its magic fall apart. (Example: A first level fighter picks up a +3 longsword and claims it as his own. note: this item is quite obviously far beyond his threshold. He wields it into battle for the next day or two blazing his name into the countryside by slaying goblins. In the middle of a fight against a scared goblin the sword suddenly pulses and he cries out in pain as he experiences the horrible sensation of blood being drained from his body. Lines of blood run through the sword and form red veins throughout the blade. The character takes 2 points of CON drain, the sword becomes +1, and the character gains the ability to take 2 points of temporary CON damage to increase the bonus of the sword to +3 for 1 hour(These 2 points of temporary CON damage recover at the end of the hour). The characters alignment shifts 1 category toward evil, and he finds that if he does try to get rid of the sword it always ends up at his side, and if he tries to wield any other weapon in melee that he draws it weapon instead.)

Obviously this allows for a lot of flavor and freedom for the punishments. And if characters are getting more magic wealth than their threshold and selling it to avoid these effects then they have a lot more money to spend on mundane things they would otherwise not consider such as a house in town, a wagon and horses, donations to their church, luxurious services, etc...
FlameLover
09-26-06, 02:23 AM Interesting idea, sounds pretty balanced, but I have to ask - why?

You say the problem is an over-abundance of magic items. How does this solve it? You should only be handing out enough to meet the PC Wealth by Level guidelines anyway, so with this system they should have about the same amount of magical items.

Do you have PCs who craft things alot? Or do you like giving out lots of cool items but find you have to wait too long to give it to them because they'll be too powerful with it, and everything else, at this level?

I may not be seeing it, but how does this fix your initial problem exactly? Interesting idea on its own though. I might have to try something similar.
Jodjod
09-26-06, 03:09 AM Try Iron Heroes, by Monte Cook. It's basically the handbook for campaigns that want to emphasise heroes, and not equipment.
Wayside
09-26-06, 03:12 AM The problem is that even if as a DM i make sure i only give them the ammount for they should have for their level, this cannot always be maintained. If a PC dies and they do not ressurect him there is an influx of wealth among the remaining players. The main reason i have this rule is that my players rarely are off fighting monsters. It is an urban based campaign where-in they fight NPC characters. Who have their own magic items. Its quite literally impossible to keep players within their limits in that kind of campaign unless you do something like steal the items, make them disapear when the npc dies, or some other method which leaves your PC's cheated. This method remedies the problem because there are consequences for having too much magic, consequences that most players do not want to risk.
It fixes the problem almost painfully obviously in my opinion. Unless as a DM you do A LOT of fudging and cheating the players out of items, it is impossible for them to not go over their wealth when fighting equal CR npc's who have their own wealth of magic items.

Jodjod: thanks for the recommendation, but i wasn't looking for a fix. I was merely presenting my sytem for controlling PC wealth.
Szatany
09-26-06, 09:29 AM I have another tested way to keep items out of players' greedy hands. Simple and effective.
Basically, (almost) every magic item can be, upon creation, designed as bound. Bound items are 10% cheaper to make, but work only for a character who's small amount of blood was used to create the item.

That's it. It's very simple rule that chances balance of power immensly. I can, at any time, produce villains that have +5 vorpal flaming bound longswords that are completly useless to the pc (well, almost completly, as they can be sold to artificers who have some use of them and also I have a rule about disenchanting items for profit).
Darth Sephiroth
09-26-06, 11:54 AM Another thing you could do is part of what I've done, modify the item creation rules to replace most of the required spells for making items with the Metamagic Items (In the Unearthed Arcana book, or similar ones) and make them hunt for the pieces of that sword they want

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wayside 09-26-06, 02:11 AM	I'm sure many a DM has had the problem that his group rapidly has an over-abundance of magic items. After a while a character seems to become nothing more than a host for his magic items. Of course there are cheesy solutions to this problem such as stealing stuff from the group, but while i was creating my new campaign world a couple methods of dealing with this problem came from the flavor of the setting. For my campaign setting i fletched out a new spellcasting sytem based on the campaign world, and along with the effects the new magic system had on spellcasting there were bound to be effects on magic items. The setting was geared to be a world where the gods have been pulling away from the world and magic began experiencing lots of problems, changing in the way it worked on almost a day to day basis. (this gave me the freedom to test out a bunch of spell systems i had) It eventually settled in what seemed to be an at least consistant state, but problems still existed. Magic items seem to rely on the ability of the individual in order to operate, and without a strong enough wielder they begin to malfunction. What this means in game mechanics: Referencing the DMG for character wealth by level, the listed wealth for your level is your threshold for magic items in which you know is a safe ammount. Going beyond this threshold can cause problems. Items may cease to function when least expected or when needed most, their magic may fall away altogether, or in some of the worst cases may become corrupt. The higher the character's charisma the farther they can venture beyond their threshold safely (DM decides just how far. characters with 5 or more ranks in use magic device should be considered to have a charisma 2 points higher for purposes of this). Intelligent items will likely corrupt or disable other possessions of the wielder. The DM should do minor things like occasional malfunctions if a character is slightly over their threshold, and if they go too far you essentially gain freedom to curse the item however you feel, or simply make its magic fall apart. (Example: A first level fighter picks up a +3 longsword and claims it as his own. note: this item is quite obviously far beyond his threshold. He wields it into battle for the next day or two blazing his name into the countryside by slaying goblins. In the middle of a fight against a scared goblin the sword suddenly pulses and he cries out in pain as he experiences the horrible sensation of blood being drained from his body. Lines of blood run through the sword and form red veins throughout the blade. The character takes 2 points of CON drain, the sword becomes +1, and the character gains the ability to take 2 points of temporary CON damage to increase the bonus of the sword to +3 for 1 hour(These 2 points of temporary CON damage recover at the end of the hour). The characters alignment shifts 1 category toward evil, and he finds that if he does try to get rid of the sword it always ends up at his side, and if he tries to wield any other weapon in melee that he draws it weapon instead.) Obviously this allows for a lot of flavor and freedom for the punishments. And if characters are getting more magic wealth than their threshold and selling it to avoid these effects then they have a lot more money to spend on mundane things they would otherwise not consider such as a house in town, a wagon and horses, donations to their church, luxurious services, etc...
FlameLover 09-26-06, 02:23 AM	Interesting idea, sounds pretty balanced, but I have to ask - why? You say the problem is an over-abundance of magic items. How does this solve it? You should only be handing out enough to meet the PC Wealth by Level guidelines anyway, so with this system they should have about the same amount of magical items. Do you have PCs who craft things alot? Or do you like giving out lots of cool items but find you have to wait too long to give it to them because they'll be too powerful with it, and everything else, at this level? I may not be seeing it, but how does this fix your initial problem exactly? Interesting idea on its own though. I might have to try something similar.
Jodjod 09-26-06, 03:09 AM	Try Iron Heroes, by Monte Cook. It's basically the handbook for campaigns that want to emphasise heroes, and not equipment.
Wayside 09-26-06, 03:12 AM	The problem is that even if as a DM i make sure i only give them the ammount for they should have for their level, this cannot always be maintained. If a PC dies and they do not ressurect him there is an influx of wealth among the remaining players. The main reason i have this rule is that my players rarely are off fighting monsters. It is an urban based campaign where-in they fight NPC characters. Who have their own magic items. Its quite literally impossible to keep players within their limits in that kind of campaign unless you do something like steal the items, make them disapear when the npc dies, or some other method which leaves your PC's cheated. This method remedies the problem because there are consequences for having too much magic, consequences that most players do not want to risk. It fixes the problem almost painfully obviously in my opinion. Unless as a DM you do A LOT of fudging and cheating the players out of items, it is impossible for them to not go over their wealth when fighting equal CR npc's who have their own wealth of magic items. Jodjod: thanks for the recommendation, but i wasn't looking for a fix. I was merely presenting my sytem for controlling PC wealth.
Szatany 09-26-06, 09:29 AM	I have another tested way to keep items out of players' greedy hands. Simple and effective. Basically, (almost) every magic item can be, upon creation, designed as bound. Bound items are 10% cheaper to make, but work only for a character who's small amount of blood was used to create the item. That's it. It's very simple rule that chances balance of power immensly. I can, at any time, produce villains that have +5 vorpal flaming bound longswords that are completly useless to the pc (well, almost completly, as they can be sold to artificers who have some use of them and also I have a rule about disenchanting items for profit).
Darth Sephiroth 09-26-06, 11:54 AM	Another thing you could do is part of what I've done, modify the item creation rules to replace most of the required spells for making items with the Metamagic Items (In the Unearthed Arcana book, or similar ones) and make them hunt for the pieces of that sword they want