Post/Author/DateTime	Post
calronmoonflower 05-07-07, 01:59 AM	i have an idea that could increase the mechanical aspects between wizards and sorcerers in a way that makes more sense. Have the wizards use the normal spell system. Have sorcerers use the spell point system from Unearthed Arcana. What do you think.
Luis_Dragunov 05-07-07, 04:19 AM	I think it nerfs the sorcerers even further. I didn't realize it myself the first time I read through UA, but with the Spell Point system present there, your spells don't improve by level. I.e.: A fireball always deals 5d6 points of damage, no matter what level you are. The concept, however, that wizards and sorcerers are fundamentally different, is quite nice but, if I were you, I'd rather yank the SP right off the XPH's PP system, with due spell improvement with the spenditure of additional points.
calronmoonflower 05-07-07, 06:27 AM	I think it nerfs the sorcerers even further. I didn't realize it myself the first time I read through UA, but with the Spell Point system present there, your spells don't improve by level. I.e.: A fireball always deals 5d6 points of damage, no matter what level you are. The concept, however, that wizards and sorcerers are fundamentally different, is quite nice but, if I were you, I'd rather yank the SP right off the XPH's PP system, with due spell improvement with the spenditure of additional points. I just reread the section on this. You can pay an extra spell point to increase the die of damage a spell deals. No change required. It's already written in. It's on page 155 under CASTING SPELLS. They still have the same caps however. I would however suggest using the power point progression chart from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. The chart in Unearthed Arcnana sucks.
Vashwood 05-07-07, 06:39 AM	Also, under the spellpoint system sorcerer attack spells innately deal slightly more damage per point used. Base caster level used for attack spells is equal to the level of the casting class required to learn that spell ... so, if a Wizard learns 3rd level spells at 5th level, and a Sorcerer learns them at 6th, then the Wizard's base fireball damage is 5d6, while the Sorcerer tosses them about for 6d6. However, the base cost is still the same for both, 5 spell points. It's subtle, but this does all check out in the text, if you care to read it. I always liked the concept myself ... gives more caster level "room to work with" for the sorcerer for use in metamagic. And as most of our DMs have removed the stupid rule where metamagic lengthens the casting time for sorcerers, they kind of become the improv specialists of the magic world.
calronmoonflower 05-07-07, 06:53 AM	:D I missed that to. Interesting that the sorcerer's main nerf also gives a slight advantage in the spell point system.
Naderion 05-07-07, 07:12 AM	I made a rebuild of the sorcerer class for my campaign and made a new spell list for this Witcher. I removed all spells, that deal force effects, or target undead or outsiders. I added many plant and animal spells from the druid and ranger. Spells that deal direct elemental damage, are increased in level by one. The class gets bonus feats like the wizard does. This is probably even weaker than the sorcerer usually is, but I added special Witchcraft feats, that work much like permanent spells on the witcher, such as immunities, resitances or even spell resistance or damage resitance at very high levels. This class is more of nature-sorcerer than a real arcanist, but I'm sure one could make other changes to the spell list, that make it different from the wizard.
Ertai Planeswalker 05-09-07, 03:16 AM	Do realize that CL improving effects are more powefull in a MP system. I play a pyromancing sorcerer with the BLoodline of Fire, Fiery Burst and Spell Thematics feats. I cast fireballs at +4 cl. Now, i use the normal system but with the MP system, i'd be casting 10D6 fireballs without paying additional magic points, and at 9th level i could spend 9 MP to cast an empowered 10D6 fireball, something the sorcerer is normally not able to do until 12th level under the MP system.
Valoy_Muniz 05-09-07, 10:06 AM	I would recomend going with the spell recharge system for the Soc. Do the regler for the wiz and recharge for the soc. The wiz would win in a one on one fight like this but this give the soc a feeling that he can go for day. We tryed it once but only to level 6 and it was working nicly.
calronmoonflower 05-10-07, 06:15 AM	The recharge mechanic would be a huge headache as the listed times are only for the ones in the Player's handbook. For any other spell you would have to come up with the number yourself and hope they are balanced.
Valoy_Muniz 05-10-07, 09:23 AM	The recharge mechanic would be a huge headache as the listed times are only for the ones in the Player's handbook. For any other spell you would have to come up with the number yourself and hope they are balanced. It did not come out that bad as most combat spells are normal timer and the player only get like 2 new spells per level up.
Darth Sephiroth 05-10-07, 10:04 AM	Well, change the feel somewhat is easy, you could push the bloodline portion of it and grant Sorcerers a bloodline from UA quite easily. You could also keep normal Sorcerer spellcasting and add the bonus' from the Battle Sorcerer since the Sorcerer is already weaker mechanically than the Wizard.
Vaelan 05-13-07, 01:24 AM	Using Psionics (call it Sorcery!) and not using the Sorcerer would be a better solution, since the spell point system kinda sucks. A lot of stuff that is all wrong Spells that deal a number of dice of damage based on caster level (such as magic missile, searing light, or lightning bolt) deal damage as if cast by a character of the minimum level of the class capable of casting the spell. In other words, your artificially inflated caster level doesn't do anything for you beyond make SR checks easier and dispels more difficult.