Post/Author/DateTime	Post
M'lord 03-26-04, 01:01 AM	My campaign uses Grim-N-Gritty HP system, which starts everyone with HP equal to Constitution, and HP are gained VERY slowly. They are gained at the same rate as BAB, and classes have a Good, Medium, or Poor Progression. That means that no matter how high your level, all combat is life-threatening. Magic has been adjusted accordingly (ask if you're interested, but that's not the focus here). 1. I'm going to be using my own Defense rules instead of those given in UA. I don't see Defense as linked to armor proficiencies, since the fastest and most agile classes (like Rogue) are quick precisely because they do not wear armor. Instead, Defense progressions will be Poor as default, but if the class has a evasion, uncanny dodge, good Reflex, or good BAB then the Defense progression will be Medium. If it has two of those abilities, the Progression will be Good. Poor, Medium, and Good Defense will be equal to 1/2 BAB (Poor, Medium, and Good, respectively). What do you think? 2. Since I'll be using those rules for Defense, armor will not add to Defense but will serve as Damage Reduction. But looking at Table 4-4 in UA, the only difference between two armors of equal DR would be their armor bonus. But armor doesn't give an 'armor bonus' (to Defense) under my mechanics. Any suggestions on how to better differentiate between armors of equal DR? Why would someone want to wear the heavier one? Would it be reasonable to just have the armor's AC bonus (in the Player's Handbook) simply be the amount of DR? That would help, since HP are rare under the Grim-N-Gritty rules. 3. Why use Damage Conversion? Can someone convince me? (Of course, if I did, I wouldn't use Grim-N-Gritty, since the low HP would have everyone fall unconscious after 2 weak hits).
AstroBryGuy 03-26-04, 02:55 AM	If you are going to use the Grim-n-Gritty HP rules, why not use its rules for Defense and Protection (Armor as Damage Reduction)? That way you are getting a system of rules designed to work together.
Lina_Inverse 03-26-04, 02:56 AM	make them give full AC as DR,thats about it.note this makes platemail bloody insane espilly +5 platemail.oh and kills physical pcs. so just use the normal armor as DR,and throw on damage conversion if youd like. why use damage conversion?ok let me explain. i have a +5plate mail,they hit me for 9 damage after breaking the AC,now i took 14 SUBDUAL and not real damage.yummy rogues and monks are poor fighters,a dex based fighter should be the best dodger.the fairest way to use class defense is based on BAB in all seriousness.
MattMart 03-26-04, 09:17 AM	the way i used to do it when i did armor as dr... I gave the armor HP... when the armor absorbed DR....it took damage instead of you.... the amount of HP you give the armor really depends on how key you want heavier armors to be... good standard would be 10x whats listed as armor bonus in UA...more or less from there...but thats about what i used and it worked just fine... so if you have DR 5 armor....and take 7....the armor takes its 5 and you take 2.... when the armor loses all its hp, its destroyed... the wizard spells that heal structural damage(in ToB) become key...
riceisnice 03-26-04, 05:53 PM	Monks don't need good Defense bonuses, they've been built to fight without armor. There's really no need to increase their unarmored AC any more.
MadBlue 03-27-04, 12:21 AM	Originally posted by riceisnice Monks don't need good Defense bonuses, they've been built to fight without armor. There's really no need to increase their unarmored AC any more. Then again, since everyone would be getting a Defense Bonus, it makes sense that Monk would still have the best unarmored AC of any class. MadBlue
riceisnice 03-27-04, 01:01 AM	They'll still have essentially the same AC if they use even the worst Defense progression. The Defense bonus substitutes for armor, hence why it only functions when none is worn.
MadBlue 03-29-04, 05:27 AM	Well, what M'lord is proposing is that Armor provides DR and Defense provides AC. Everyone gets their Defense bonus, whether in armor or not. Besides, if a Defense mechanic is being added to the game, and everyone is getting some kind of Defense bonus, the Monk should still have an AC much higher than the other classes because high AC is a class feature for the Monk. If an unarmored Rogue or Ranger has the same AC as an unarmored Monk, then the Monk effectively loses a defining class feature. So, the Monk's AC bonus should be added onto whatever Defense bonus the Monk would get according to the formula used to calculate the Defense bonus. Personally, though, what I'd do is give all characters a Defense Bonus of 1/3 character level and use the Armor and Damage Reduction chart on p111 of UA. The Defense bonus would be a Dodge bonus that stacks with armor's AC bonus. Basically, giving everyone the same Defense bonus keeps the characters equal, since you'd be adding the same thing to everyone. Those who wear armor would get added benefit in the way of the shield and armor AC and armor DR. Presumably, Bracers of Armor and other AC boosting items would provide AC and DR as well, so those who don't wear armor can get some DR protection as well. And, of course, the Monk would get the additional AC bonus as a class ability. MadBlue