Diplomacy: What house rule do you use? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Diplomacy: What house rule do you use? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jameswilliamogle
03-08-07, 03:52 PM I'm not sure how to treat this skill; the flat DC 20 is just too low. How should I handle this skill?

Also, I'm wanting to make Gather Information the skill used to get access to expensive magic items and such, but have no idea what to set the DC's at (I'm assuming it would be modified by town size). Any ideas?
Serin Ghar
03-08-07, 04:06 PM A friend of mine uses this rule to help with the diplomacy skill monkeys she seems to have in her games. Any NPC with five ranks in Diplomacy or Perform:Oratory, or one of those +2/+2 feats that include either has the ability to make a secret opposed check of diplomacy or perform. Whatever the NPC rolls is taken into account and secretly subtracts from the PCs roll.

The theory is, if you have been trained in diplomacy and perform:oratory, you know what the PC speaker is trying for, so you won't be immediately swayed to his side. This way high level and powerful NPCs have the option to not be immediately friendly when they really wouldn't want to be, while low level and untrained one are still going to be swayed.
Arcade
03-08-07, 04:40 PM I would suggest this. while I haven't used it personally, it seems like a pretty good idea:

http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html
Krusk
03-08-07, 05:54 PM if you dont like a set dc for every opponent, just go with opposed rolls, let the person attempting to use diplomacy take ten, but not the person being diplomized.

Do the same for bluff, and intimidate. Allow sense motive as an opposition to all, but there is no "offensive" use of sense motive.

EX

A wants to influence B, A takes a 10 for diplo, getting a 17. B rolls a diplo check of 7+6getting a total of 13. A wins.

A wants to influence C. A take a 10 for diplo, getting a 17 again. C rolls sense motive check of 11, with a modifier of 20. He gets a 31 and is un diplomicized.
bartleby42
03-08-07, 08:18 PM I've always thought that the DCs were way to low, and diplomacy just seems like an odd thing to roll for. So my solution:
-Roll and consult the table as usual.
-Make the player role play it.

Yep, the second portion is the important part. If the PC says "Like man, you shouldn't be hatin' me an' stuff, cuz I am good and, yeah, you should like me and stuff." I don't care how wonderful your charecter's Cha is, if someone said that to me, and they were the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, I would still be ticked.

But if the PC says something that is even quasi-elegant, and applicable to the situtation (That is they aren't disscusing past deeds or alingment whilst trying to get an ornery farmer to let them pass) the roll stands and they can get a bonus.

By RAW if you talk about the GNP of bolivia you can talk someone into loveing you after you burned down thier house. So my fairly vauge house rule is "All diplomacy checks are modified by the argument you present" A good point should always be more worth more than a non-sensical one.
Pandaemoni
03-08-07, 09:02 PM I use the rule as written and have never had much of a problem. The problems I have seen start when people try to use Diplomacy to "negotiate" or to cut business deals. The skill itself works fine if you limit it to what it was designed for: making people less hostile/more friendly towards you.

The key to understanding the skill, imo, if to realize that when the chaotic evil BBEG whose plans you've been consistently foiling for ten years straight is moved from "hostile" to "helpful," that doesn't mean he becomes lawful good and gives up his latest evil plan. He's still the same liar and cheat that he was before the diplomacy, he just likes you more.

Perhaps that means he might not kill the Diplomacy-using-PC outright (as for the rest of the party though...), but merely imprison him until the evil plan has come to fruition. Or, if the "helpful BBEG" has tried that before and the PC escaped, he might even decide to kill the PC, he'd just do it reluctantly and probably prefer to give you a swift, relatively painless death.

The "helpful" Pit Fiend might decide that the Diplomacy using PC is an worthy foe or amusing, and decide to merely torture and enslave him for the devil's own amusement.

A helpful NPC does what the NPC thinks of as being "helpful," he doesn't rely on the PC's definition.
jameswilliamogle
03-09-07, 09:48 AM I don't think I like the RP option for diplomacy... this really penalizes new players that aren't familiar w/ RPing (several in my group, currently). Of course, if they did RP it out, I might give the +2 bonus...

Anyways, this has been most useful; the OotS link seems the most useful to me. Thanks all!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jameswilliamogle 03-08-07, 03:52 PM	I'm not sure how to treat this skill; the flat DC 20 is just too low. How should I handle this skill? Also, I'm wanting to make Gather Information the skill used to get access to expensive magic items and such, but have no idea what to set the DC's at (I'm assuming it would be modified by town size). Any ideas?
Serin Ghar 03-08-07, 04:06 PM	A friend of mine uses this rule to help with the diplomacy skill monkeys she seems to have in her games. Any NPC with five ranks in Diplomacy or Perform:Oratory, or one of those +2/+2 feats that include either has the ability to make a secret opposed check of diplomacy or perform. Whatever the NPC rolls is taken into account and secretly subtracts from the PCs roll. The theory is, if you have been trained in diplomacy and perform:oratory, you know what the PC speaker is trying for, so you won't be immediately swayed to his side. This way high level and powerful NPCs have the option to not be immediately friendly when they really wouldn't want to be, while low level and untrained one are still going to be swayed.
Arcade 03-08-07, 04:40 PM	I would suggest this. while I haven't used it personally, it seems like a pretty good idea: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html
Krusk 03-08-07, 05:54 PM	if you dont like a set dc for every opponent, just go with opposed rolls, let the person attempting to use diplomacy take ten, but not the person being diplomized. Do the same for bluff, and intimidate. Allow sense motive as an opposition to all, but there is no "offensive" use of sense motive. EX A wants to influence B, A takes a 10 for diplo, getting a 17. B rolls a diplo check of 7+6getting a total of 13. A wins. A wants to influence C. A take a 10 for diplo, getting a 17 again. C rolls sense motive check of 11, with a modifier of 20. He gets a 31 and is un diplomicized.
bartleby42 03-08-07, 08:18 PM	I've always thought that the DCs were way to low, and diplomacy just seems like an odd thing to roll for. So my solution: -Roll and consult the table as usual. -Make the player role play it. Yep, the second portion is the important part. If the PC says "Like man, you shouldn't be hatin' me an' stuff, cuz I am good and, yeah, you should like me and stuff." I don't care how wonderful your charecter's Cha is, if someone said that to me, and they were the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, I would still be ticked. But if the PC says something that is even quasi-elegant, and applicable to the situtation (That is they aren't disscusing past deeds or alingment whilst trying to get an ornery farmer to let them pass) the roll stands and they can get a bonus. By RAW if you talk about the GNP of bolivia you can talk someone into loveing you after you burned down thier house. So my fairly vauge house rule is "All diplomacy checks are modified by the argument you present" A good point should always be more worth more than a non-sensical one.
Pandaemoni 03-08-07, 09:02 PM	I use the rule as written and have never had much of a problem. The problems I have seen start when people try to use Diplomacy to "negotiate" or to cut business deals. The skill itself works fine if you limit it to what it was designed for: making people less hostile/more friendly towards you. The key to understanding the skill, imo, if to realize that when the chaotic evil BBEG whose plans you've been consistently foiling for ten years straight is moved from "hostile" to "helpful," that doesn't mean he becomes lawful good and gives up his latest evil plan. He's still the same liar and cheat that he was before the diplomacy, he just likes you more. Perhaps that means he might not kill the Diplomacy-using-PC outright (as for the rest of the party though...), but merely imprison him until the evil plan has come to fruition. Or, if the "helpful BBEG" has tried that before and the PC escaped, he might even decide to kill the PC, he'd just do it reluctantly and probably prefer to give you a swift, relatively painless death. The "helpful" Pit Fiend might decide that the Diplomacy using PC is an worthy foe or amusing, and decide to merely torture and enslave him for the devil's own amusement. A helpful NPC does what the NPC thinks of as being "helpful," he doesn't rely on the PC's definition.
jameswilliamogle 03-09-07, 09:48 AM	I don't think I like the RP option for diplomacy... this really penalizes new players that aren't familiar w/ RPing (several in my group, currently). Of course, if they did RP it out, I might give the +2 bonus... Anyways, this has been most useful; the OotS link seems the most useful to me. Thanks all!